Border agents can search/copy contents of laptops w/out cause, federal judge says

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
So, you're re-entering America at the border, or at an airport, and a Customs and Border Protection agent randomly decides he want to check your laptop. According to a New York federal judge yesterday, the agent can lawfully not only physically check the laptop for contraband (which would seem to me to be a normal type of security action), but can also - without probable cause or even a hint of suspicion of wrongdoing - seize your laptop, look at your private data, and copy any of the data desired - or all of the data.

Wow. Just wow.

We don't need no stinking warrant.

A federal judge in New York on Tuesday upheld a government policy that permits officers at U.S. borders to inspect and copy the contents of travelers’ laptops and other devices without reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing.

In his ruling, U.S. District Judge Edward R. Korman dismissed a lawsuit by a university student and a group of criminal defense lawyers and press photographers challenging regulations adopted by the Department of Homeland Security that allow searches of passengers’ electronic equipment at the nation’s borders, including at airports and on trains.

The plaintiffs, who were represented by the American Civil Liberties Union, allege that the policy violates their rights to privacy and free speech.

Korma, a judge in the Eastern District of New York, said that the policy permits searches with or without suspicion, and cited case law that held that “searches at our borders without probable cause and without a warrant are nonetheless ‘reasonable.’”

He said that “there is about a 10 in a million chance” that a U.S. citizen or foreigner’s laptop will be searched. Two federal appeals courts have held that searches of electronic devices are routine border searches. One appeals court has held that some searches may require reasonable suspicion.

One of the plaintiffs, university student Pascal Abidor, had his laptop inspected and taken by Customs and Border Protection officers while he was on an Amtrak train from Montreal to New York in May 2010. It was returned 11 days later. Abidor could prove no injury from the laptop’s confiscation and in any case, Korman said, the officers had reasonable suspicion to inspect it.

Abidor, an Islamic studies scholar and a dual French-American citizen, had images of rallies by the militant Islamist groups Hamas and Hezbollah on his laptop.

The ACLU is considering an appeal. Catherine Crump, the ACLU attorney who argued the case in July 2011, expressed disappointment at the ruling.

“Suspicionless searches of devices containing vast amounts of personal information cannot meet the standard set by the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures,” Crump said in a statement. “Unfortunately, these searches are part of a broader pattern of aggressive government surveillance that collects information on too many innocent people, under lax standards, and without adequate oversight.”
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,547
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It has long been the case that anything coming into US is subject to search. They don't need a search warrant to search bags. A computer device is merely a device that contains data. What is the different between looking for physical contraband and digital contraband? Absolutely nothing.

When it comes to the border and entry into the US things are different and always have been in modern times.
 
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Angry Irishman

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2010
1,883
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It's a slippery slope....but we'll continue to see the sheep fed and content as we lose our civil liberties. After all, its just the right thing to do, and its for our own good.:rolleyes:
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
It has long been the case that anything coming into US is subject to search. They don't need a search warrant to search bags. A computer device is merely a device that contains data. What is the different between looking for physical contraband and digital contraband? Absolutely nothing.

When it comes to the border and entry into the US things are different and always have been in modern times.

I'm not sure what you mean by "digital contraband." Sure, people can have pirated copies of software or movies on their laptops, but that's pretty small potatoes, and not something border agents are going to be particularly focused on; certainly not something substantial enough to justify such a violation of the ". . . right of the people to be secure in . . . their effects."

Yeah, child porn would be of general interest to law enforcement types, but that's not a "contraband" issue; and if seizing a computer and checking/copying its private data without a warrant or reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing can be justified as lawful in the name of fighting child porn, then it could be done to ANYONE with a computer at any time, not just when people cross the border. In fact, the courts will never cross THAT line, as it would make a total mockery of the 4th Amendment.
 

Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
1,369
1
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That judge should be thrown in jail by the people themselves. But, that will never happen because terrorism won and they are all very, very afraid.

In sci-fi movies you often see 2 kinds of future societies - an advanced, peaceful and free society in which robotics and other technological advancements have allowed the human race to do its own thing instead of worry about survival, and one that often looks like a technological hell - Judge Dredd's Mega-City One is a good example.
I think we all know where we are heading.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
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As a person who is traveling outside the US many times for business, don't let me start with TSA and Border Patrol. Some of them were beyond sad and pathetic and stupid and egomaniacs.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
Whatever risks are posed by people bringing things into the country on laptop hard drives, I think they're worth it to retain some personal privacy and freedom here. Just how long do they expect you to wait while they inspect your entire hard drive btw?
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,406
389
126
New York judges seem to be conditioned to rule in the government's favor. This is true of second amendment issues as well. We will see what the supreme court says.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
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... waits quietly for a proclamation that the Internet is 'owned' by the government, and therefore any device which might connect may have it's complete contents searched and catalogued at any time...
 

m8d

Senior member
Nov 5, 2012
670
1,076
136
Al Qaeda mission on 911 was to make the US panic and we did.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,335
47,567
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Not that I travel with computers, but if I did I'd likely just pull an Alberto Gonzales and repeat ad nauseum that I really just can't seem to recall my BIOS password. I'm sure I'd remember to mention setting up encryption on the hard drive, but the specifics would be sketchy.

Nintendesert's link reminds me of Cheney's 'free speech zones.' God damn the Feds disgust me.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
These border agents risks their lives to protect ours.

Support the agents!
Freedom isn't free.
 

Zodiark1593

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,230
4
81
It has long been the case that anything coming into US is subject to search. They don't need a search warrant to search bags. A computer device is merely a device that contains data. What is the different between looking for physical contraband and digital contraband? Absolutely nothing.

When it comes to the border and entry into the US things are different and always have been in modern times.
They can search my data all they want, but it will be arranged differently so as that the only one that can read it is myself. I'm not obliged to translate any data for the border agents. ;)
 

gevorg

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2004
5,070
1
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After growth of illegal sex tourism, some Asian countries started to require you to reveal your laptop's password so that they can search it for pedo porn/etc. Just a matter of time until TSA will come up with something similar to get your data, even if its password protected. Encryption might even raise their suspicion, BECAUSE YOU TERRIST HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE!
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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It has long been the case that anything coming into US is subject to search. They don't need a search warrant to search bags. A computer device is merely a device that contains data. What is the different between looking for physical contraband and digital contraband? Absolutely nothing.

When it comes to the border and entry into the US things are different and always have been in modern times.

I agree that this seems reasonable to me. And encrypted drives should be seized if the owner doesn't provide a password.

Coming into the country isn't the same thing as being in your home or walking down the street, which are the places were search is unreasonable under the Constitution.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,512
24
76
TrueCrypt full disk encryption, don't leave the country without it.

And after you don't cough up the key/password, you are probably going to be sitting there a lot longer. That or the agent will take it, call a tech, and be provided backdoor access in a jiffy.

It seems like almost everyday we hear of a court decision like this, or of backdoors in software, radio receivers in USB cables, more Snowden leaks of NSA slides, .etc. It is really depressing and harshing my chi.

I am very worried about the long term psychological impact to our country if this continues. I am sure many people are internalizing a lot of strong feelings, and that can only go on for so long before bad things happen.

What do you think of the collective psychological impact of news like this that comes every day, and what it will mean in 10 to 20 years?
 

Rebel44

Senior member
Jun 19, 2006
742
1
76
The terrorists have won.

QFT.

For me its simple: many years ago I made decision that instead of going to USA (where clearly tourists from EU are not welcomed....) I spend my traveling budget in other countries.....
 
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