Bookshelf vs Floorstanding

[DisgruntledVirus]

I have gone and auditioned Tower and Bookshelf's from Focal, Paradigm, and Klipsch. I am torn as to get a bookshelf or a tower (looking in the $1000 range for a pair). I have yet to go and listen to towers (am going tonight though), but was thinking if I went tower route I could get some great towers and just do a 2.0 system instead of bookshelf 2.1 system (prices would be about the same). From what I have seen spec wise a tower is going to get down to 50 hz range, where a bookshelf is closer to 100 hz. I know if I went 2 towers I wouldn't have the impact of a dedicated sub, but I don't need that right now and can hold off if need be. I would rather get higher quality speakers and no sub then a lower quality 2.1 system.

Anybody have any experience/thoughts with this?

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I have gone and auditioned Tower and Bookshelf's from Focal, Paradigm, and Klipsch. I am torn as to get a bookshelf or a tower (looking in the $1000 range for a pair). I have yet to go and listen to towers (am going tonight though), but was thinking if I went tower route I could get some great towers and just do a 2.0 system instead of bookshelf 2.1 system (prices would be about the same). From what I have seen spec wise a tower is going to get down to 50 hz range, where a bookshelf is closer to 100 hz. I know if I went 2 towers I wouldn't have the impact of a dedicated sub, but I don't need that right now and can hold off if need be. I would rather get higher quality speakers and no sub then a lower quality 2.1 system.

Anybody have any experience/thoughts with this?

What speakers are you looking at. 100 Hz out of a bookshelf is pretty crappy unless its a pretty small speaker.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Is this mostly for music or HT?

If it's HT, I think getting a sub + bookshelf speakers could have the advantage.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I have gone and auditioned Tower and Bookshelf's from Focal, Paradigm, and Klipsch. I am torn as to get a bookshelf or a tower (looking in the $1000 range for a pair). I have yet to go and listen to towers (am going tonight though), but was thinking if I went tower route I could get some great towers and just do a 2.0 system instead of bookshelf 2.1 system (prices would be about the same). From what I have seen spec wise a tower is going to get down to 50 hz range, where a bookshelf is closer to 100 hz. I know if I went 2 towers I wouldn't have the impact of a dedicated sub, but I don't need that right now and can hold off if need be. I would rather get higher quality speakers and no sub then a lower quality 2.1 system.

Anybody have any experience/thoughts with this?

What speakers are you looking at. 100 Hz out of a bookshelf is pretty crappy unless its a pretty small speaker.

They are most likely lower but wasn't sure and couldn't check at the time. I am looking at the Paradigm Mini's and Titan's along with the Focal 706 for bookshelf. The sub would be a Paradigm 8 or 10 inch sub.

If I went Tower I would get the Paradigm Monitor 9's or 11's or the Milenia 20's, from Focal I would get the Chorus 714 or 716, and from Klipsch I would get the RF 82 or RVX 54.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Is this mostly for music or HT?

If it's HT, I think getting a sub + bookshelf speakers could have the advantage.

Its for both, but more HT. If I went just tower route I would get a sub in a month or two but initially just the towers.

I don't need earth shaking bass, as I have some Logitechs that fit that bill quite nicely if I need it. I would prefer to have the midrange and highs there then the lows (at least for now).

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I would look at options other than Paradigm / Klipsch / etc. for the subs. There are some really excellent bang for the buck options out there from Internet Direct companies.

SVS / HSU / Elemental Designs / Epik / AV123 all have really strong subwoofer options compared to the retail brands for equivalent price.

 

[spidey07]

In general you will get better speakers for the same money if you stick to bookshelfs. Towers are essentially useless for HT as all the bass is directed to the sub anyway. The only thing towers have going for them is listening to music where stereo bass and seemless bass integration are very important.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I would look at options other than Paradigm / Klipsch / etc. for the subs. There are some really excellent bang for the buck options out there from Internet Direct companies.

SVS / HSU / Elemental Designs / Epik / AV123 all have really strong subwoofer options compared to the retail brands for equivalent price.

Exactly. SVS makes some AWESOME subs!

 

[pennylane]

Decent bookshelves ought to be pretty flat all the way down to 60-80 Hz or possibly lower. I think 2.1 is more cost-efficient, especially if it's for home theater at all. I agree with spidey07 that for the same price, bookshelves will probably sound better than towers. The main benefit of towers is they can go louder and they lower, but still not low enough for HT. For small rooms, there's not too much benefit to towers over bookshelves if you have a subwoofer.

I have Polk LSi9's (bookshelves) and they're flat to about 60 Hz (if I remember correctly).

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: fanerman91
Decent bookshelves ought to be pretty flat all the way down to 60-80 Hz or possibly lower. I think 2.1 is more cost-efficient, especially if it's for home theater at all. I agree with spidey07 that for the same price, bookshelves will probably sound better than towers. The main benefit of towers is they can go louder and they lower, but still not low enough for HT. For small rooms, there's not too much benefit to towers over bookshelves if you have a subwoofer.

I have Polk LSi9's (bookshelves) and they're flat to about 60 Hz (if I remember correctly).

My DefTech bookshelfs are strong and clear way below 80 Hz, although I do filter them at 80 Hz. Boston Acoustics perform similarly, at a similar price.

ps- i looked into the 2 brands i mention before they were available at BB. the price hasn't changed much, but i don't know if they kept up the quality since going relatively mass-market. hearing is believing.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Just spend a little money and get these.


http://www.pioneerelectronics..../ci.Reference+One.Kuro

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Just spend a little money and get these.


http://www.pioneerelectronics..../ci.Reference+One.Kuro

Nice specs for "home" speaker but I do like the power of these for a similar price. (15" three way active model and up)

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Just spend a little money and get these.


http://www.pioneerelectronics..../ci.Reference+One.Kuro

Nice specs for "home" speaker but I do like the power of these for a similar price. (15" three way active model and up)

Those are in the 60k price range also?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler

Originally posted by: fanerman91
Decent bookshelves ought to be pretty flat all the way down to 60-80 Hz or possibly lower. I think 2.1 is more cost-efficient, especially if it's for home theater at all. I agree with spidey07 that for the same price, bookshelves will probably sound better than towers. The main benefit of towers is they can go louder and they lower, but still not low enough for HT. For small rooms, there's not too much benefit to towers over bookshelves if you have a subwoofer.

I have Polk LSi9's (bookshelves) and they're flat to about 60 Hz (if I remember correctly).

My DefTech bookshelfs are strong and clear way below 80 Hz, although I do filter them at 80 Hz. Boston Acoustics perform similarly, at a similar price.

ps- i looked into the 2 brands i mention before they were available at BB. the price hasn't changed much, but i don't know if they kept up the quality since going relatively mass-market. hearing is believing.

I have a very special love for boston acoustics bookshelfs. But that is from the early 90s. Don't know what they've done since then.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Just spend a little money and get these.


http://www.pioneerelectronics..../ci.Reference+One.Kuro

Nice specs for "home" speaker but I do like the power of these for a similar price. (15" three way active model and up)

Those are in the 60k price range also?

Not even the top of the line model - Genelec 1036A and far more capable than any "home" speaker both in frequency extension and dynamics. I did not think Pioneer made "audiophile" stuff. :Q

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Just spend a little money and get these.


http://www.pioneerelectronics..../ci.Reference+One.Kuro

Nice specs for "home" speaker but I do like the power of these for a similar price. (15" three way active model and up)

Those are in the 60k price range also?

Not even the top of the line model - Genelec 1036A and far more capable than any "home" speaker both in frequency extension and dynamics. I did not think Pioneer made "audiophile" stuff. :Q

I didnt either, someone has a post going over at AVS asking about the best speakers people have ever heard and those TAD's have been mentioned by a few people. Here is a review for shits and giggles to read. http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2007/011407tad/

 

[Muadib]

I also think you would be better served with bookshelf speakers & a sub. I agree with jello, and think you should consider internet dealers. It's a bit harder, because you have to have a lot of faith in reviews, but it's worth it to me because you seem to get more bang for your buck.

 

[Calculator83]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Just spend a little money and get these.


http://www.pioneerelectronics..../ci.Reference+One.Kuro

Nice specs for "home" speaker but I do like the power of these for a similar price. (15" three way active model and up)

Those are in the 60k price range also?

Not even the top of the line model - Genelec 1036A and far more capable than any "home" speaker both in frequency extension and dynamics. I did not think Pioneer made "audiophile" stuff. :Q

They make these things cuz they laugh all the way to the bank. It's a box + drivers. Speakers are very easy to make if one would just down 2 hardcovers. Save 61k.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Calculator83
They make these things cuz they laugh all the way to the bank. It's a box + drivers. Speakers are very easy to make if one would just down 2 hardcovers. Save 61k.

So start your own speaker company and laugh all the way to the bank.

Speakers are not easy to make, not good ones. Putting drivers into a box with a crossover is easy to make, making those boxes reproduce music is another game.

If you've ever listened to speakers at this level it should immediately strike you as to how "real" they sound. I've had many a musician (some do it for a living) listen to my stereo and be floored, literally floored. Their words are almost always "wow, it sounds like the band is playing in your room"

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Calculator83

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Just spend a little money and get these.


http://www.pioneerelectronics..../ci.Reference+One.Kuro

Nice specs for "home" speaker but I do like the power of these for a similar price. (15" three way active model and up)

Those are in the 60k price range also?

Not even the top of the line model - Genelec 1036A and far more capable than any "home" speaker both in frequency extension and dynamics. I did not think Pioneer made "audiophile" stuff. :Q

They make these things cuz they laugh all the way to the bank. It's a box + drivers. Speakers are very easy to make if one would just down 2 hardcovers. Save 61k.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. If you think speakers are "easy to make" and cheap you have no idea.

 

[tyanni]

Have you auditioned PSB Speakers? I listened to lower end Paradigm's, PSB, and Monitor Audio Bookshelf speakers (around 500/pair) and preferred the PSB's. To each his own, obviously, but you might consider them.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Well I now found out why floorstanding are much better. Went to my home audio store and spent about 5 hours there listening to a few tracks on switching between various speakers. I had them switch between a 2.1 Focal 705 bookshelf paired with a Paradigm sub, and a 2.0 system with the Focal 716 floorstanding speakers. Started with the 2.1 and switched to the 2.0 and I immediately ruled out a 2.1 system. The 2.0 system just offered so much more then the 2.1, it simply blew it away even without the sub.

I also listened to the Focal Electra bookshelf's that were setup correctly with proper imaging and such. Wow that was the first time I actually have listened to a system with a good soundstage and imaging. The speakers disappeared and the sound appeared to come from about 3 ft behind the speakers. I could actually place different parts of the band on the sound stage. It was beautiful.

Now I just need to find $6000 or so for some floorstanding Electra's

 

[Hulk]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I would look at options other than Paradigm / Klipsch / etc. for the subs. There are some really excellent bang for the buck options out there from Internet Direct companies.

SVS / HSU / Elemental Designs / Epik / AV123 all have really strong subwoofer options compared to the retail brands for equivalent price.

Exactly. SVS makes some AWESOME subs!

I actually just received my SVS SB12 last week. A small sealed sub from SVS. We didn't want the giant box in the room. Totally impressed with this sub.

As for the original poster...

Do you have a good sounding room? If not, meaning if it is very hard, regularly shaped, etc. then go with bookshelf speakers. They don't interact with the room as much.

If you have a nice sounding room with uneven dimensions, things on the wall, a sofa or two, carpet or a large area rug, etc.. then go with a floorstander. Due to the box size the floorstander, even with the same components as the small box, with have greater extension and overall bass output.

But most of all make sure you go out and listen to a lot of speakers. Yeah it's a chore but it's really the only way to find something you like.

 

[Hulk]

Originally posted by: Calculator83

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Just spend a little money and get these.


http://www.pioneerelectronics..../ci.Reference+One.Kuro

Nice specs for "home" speaker but I do like the power of these for a similar price. (15" three way active model and up)

Those are in the 60k price range also?

Not even the top of the line model - Genelec 1036A and far more capable than any "home" speaker both in frequency extension and dynamics. I did not think Pioneer made "audiophile" stuff. :Q

They make these things cuz they laugh all the way to the bank. It's a box + drivers. Speakers are very easy to make if one would just down 2 hardcovers. Save 61k.

Yes speakers are very easy to make. But GREAT sounding speakers are extremely difficult to design and build. You like many people are neglecting to put value on the intellectual design aspect of the speaker. By your reasoning you shouldn't need to buy software, only a few books so you could write it yourself! I am not a speaker designer but as a mechanical engineer I can tell you from my limited knowledge that making a great sounding speaker is no easy feat. And most of these companies have been building on thier own research and efforts for 20, 30, 40, even 50 years to produce better and better sounding speakers at each price point.

But I will grant you this: there exists an inversely proportional relationship between speakers sound and price. Is a $500 speaker twice as good as a $250 speaker? Probably not but you might be able to make a case that it is A LOT better. Is a $50,000 speaker twice as good as a $25,000 speaker? No way. It might be better but not by the margins that occur in the lower price products. In my opinion when speakers reach the $1500 price point they start to get very, very good. By $5000 there are few compromises in the best designs. By $10,000 you are talking about possibly missing the lowest bass with palpable impact or slight differences in dynamics, soundstaging, etc... Over $10k and if you do some shopping you can pretty much get it all right down to the amazing crafted cabinets with exotic materials.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Well I now found out why floorstanding are much better. Went to my home audio store and spent about 5 hours there listening to a few tracks on switching between various speakers. I had them switch between a 2.1 Focal 705 bookshelf paired with a Paradigm sub, and a 2.0 system with the Focal 716 floorstanding speakers. Started with the 2.1 and switched to the 2.0 and I immediately ruled out a 2.1 system. The 2.0 system just offered so much more then the 2.1, it simply blew it away even without the sub.

I also listened to the Focal Electra bookshelf's that were setup correctly with proper imaging and such. Wow that was the first time I actually have listened to a system with a good soundstage and imaging. The speakers disappeared and the sound appeared to come from about 3 ft behind the speakers. I could actually place different parts of the band on the sound stage. It was beautiful.

Now I just need to find $6000 or so for some floorstanding Electra's

For music I think that floorstanding towers are a better setup. But when it comes to movies, they simply can't match the range that a 2.1 setup can do.