Bone Thugs *sampling?* Phil Collins

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
I prefer 2pac's "cover/sample" of Phil Collins's - in the air tonight.
link

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
On a side note, I'm sick and tired of no-talent ass clowns sampling someone else's work and receiving praise for it. That is all.

I don't quite understand why some people hate covers/samples so much. It's not like this new version somehow degrades the existing work. The existing work still.. um.. exists. It's still there in all it's glory. A newer take on it, targeted to a different audience, does not diminish it in anyway. Still, opinions, like assholes, are evenly distributed throughout humanity and I don't claim to speak for everyone.. I just don't get the hate. It seems so misplaced to me.

It mostly applies to rap, if Guns & Roses remakes a Bob Dylan song, people go "OHHH SHIT THIS IS GREAT!!!" But if a rapper uses the music from the same Bob Dylan song in one of theirs, it because crap instantly. Rap gets bad mouthed by a lot of people. But it's still the most popular music in the world. I guess you can't make everyone happy all the time.

Well, in the first place Bob Dylan wrote, produced, or performed an ENORMOUS amount of the music for better than three decades, so he might not be the best example to draw on. However, to use your example, I never much praised the G&R Knockin on Heaven's Door, though neither did it offend me (mostly because metal/hard rock doesn't offend me in the same way most urban music seems to).

Also remember that there's a WORLD of difference between covering a song, and sampling a song.

As to the most popular music, don't make me laugh. Let's add up the total number of rap albums in circulation, then add up the total number of classical albums ever in circulation. Or maybe try it with gospel/hymnals. Crap, find me a rap album that outsold the White album. In fact:

(top selling albums in the world)
Thriller
Back in Black
Eagles Greatest Hits
The Bodyguard Soundtrack (ok, you could call this one r&bish)
Phantom of the Opera
Millennium
Saturday Night Fever
Dark Side of the Moon
Come on Over
Bat out of Hell
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Falling into You
Led Zeppelin IV
Music Box (ok, kind of popish)
Dirty Dancing Soundtrack
Let's Talk About Love

....

I could go on all day. Rap is NOT popular in any meaningful way. Not compared to nearly every other type of music in existence. What music is reprinted the most for education or recital? Classical. What music is performed in most schools? Classical, or folk.

This doesn't mean there isn't some rap/hip-hop/etc that I enjoy. There is some...but it's such a tiny percentage as to basically be moot.

Your White Album argument is fail because it's ONE album, one album does not define an entire genre.

You're not understanding my point, having the top selling album of all time isn't the same as comparing an entire genre of music to another. While there is no 1 rap album on that list, as a whole rap is the biggest selling music world wide PERIOD. If you want to get technical, nobody except the Beatles has sold as many albums as Mariah Carey, so I should just say Mariah > all music right? It's not that easy. Mariah represents one artist, as does the Beatles & Elvis. Look at the top 100 charts for the past 10 years and you will see Rap as a whole outsells everything. Not just in America, in most countries. As for popular, turn on MTV, what will you see playing most of the time? I'll give you a hint, not any of the albums, or artists you listed. How is most played on TV, and the majority of radio stations not meaningful? in LA I think we have 7 "urban" stations that play rap & r&b. Where we have 1 country (which I think is about to die) and 1 classic rock and 1 alternative.

How do you define meaningful?

 

[n yusef]

Why is it OK to derail a hip-hop thread with your negative opinions of the genre? I never see this in rock/metal threads.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
I prefer 2pac's "cover/sample" of Phil Collins's - in the air tonight.
link

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
On a side note, I'm sick and tired of no-talent ass clowns sampling someone else's work and receiving praise for it. That is all.

I don't quite understand why some people hate covers/samples so much. It's not like this new version somehow degrades the existing work. The existing work still.. um.. exists. It's still there in all it's glory. A newer take on it, targeted to a different audience, does not diminish it in anyway. Still, opinions, like assholes, are evenly distributed throughout humanity and I don't claim to speak for everyone.. I just don't get the hate. It seems so misplaced to me.

It mostly applies to rap, if Guns & Roses remakes a Bob Dylan song, people go "OHHH SHIT THIS IS GREAT!!!" But if a rapper uses the music from the same Bob Dylan song in one of theirs, it because crap instantly. Rap gets bad mouthed by a lot of people. But it's still the most popular music in the world. I guess you can't make everyone happy all the time.

Well, in the first place Bob Dylan wrote, produced, or performed an ENORMOUS amount of the music for better than three decades, so he might not be the best example to draw on. However, to use your example, I never much praised the G&R Knockin on Heaven's Door, though neither did it offend me (mostly because metal/hard rock doesn't offend me in the same way most urban music seems to).

Also remember that there's a WORLD of difference between covering a song, and sampling a song.

As to the most popular music, don't make me laugh. Let's add up the total number of rap albums in circulation, then add up the total number of classical albums ever in circulation. Or maybe try it with gospel/hymnals. Crap, find me a rap album that outsold the White album. In fact:

(top selling albums in the world)
Thriller
Back in Black
Eagles Greatest Hits
The Bodyguard Soundtrack (ok, you could call this one r&bish)
Phantom of the Opera
Millennium
Saturday Night Fever
Dark Side of the Moon
Come on Over
Bat out of Hell
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Falling into You
Led Zeppelin IV
Music Box (ok, kind of popish)
Dirty Dancing Soundtrack
Let's Talk About Love

....

I could go on all day. Rap is NOT popular in any meaningful way. Not compared to nearly every other type of music in existence. What music is reprinted the most for education or recital? Classical. What music is performed in most schools? Classical, or folk.

This doesn't mean there isn't some rap/hip-hop/etc that I enjoy. There is some...but it's such a tiny percentage as to basically be moot.

Your White Album argument is fail because it's ONE album, one album does not define an entire genre.

You're not understanding my point, having the top selling album of all time isn't the same as comparing an entire genre of music to another. While there is no 1 rap album on that list, as a whole rap is the biggest selling music world wide PERIOD. If you want to get technical, nobody except the Beatles has sold as many albums as Mariah Carey, so I should just say Mariah > all music right? It's not that easy. Mariah represents one artist, as does the Beatles & Elvis. Look at the top 100 charts for the past 10 years and you will see Rap as a whole outsells everything. Not just in America, in most countries. As for popular, turn on MTV, what will you see playing most of the time? I'll give you a hint, not any of the albums, or artists you listed. How is most played on TV, and the majority of radio stations not meaningful? in LA I think we have 7 "urban" stations that play rap & r&b. Where we have 1 country (which I think is about to die) and 1 classic rock and 1 alternative.

How do you define meaningful?

And your argument fails because it's almost entirely an urban phenomenon. Radio, and in fact ALL media outlets are controlled entirely by corporate interests which are supported by advertising dollars. What that means is media is going to play what people in inner cities request/like by majority because it provides the broadest target audience to their advertisers. While cities are big, they are NOT the majority of the population, and are a slim slim portion of the overall area. So if 51% of cities (which are less than 50% of the population) wants urban music, then urban music is what gets played, regardless of actual interest. Furthermore, urban music is a cultural thing, not just music. It carries with it vast revenues in accessories, clothing, etc and is therefore worth FAR more than, say, 60s psychedelic which encourages divestiture of material goods. It's all just business, and it's all bullshit.

Your MTV argument is utter crap because: a) mtv doesn't play music anymore for the most part, and b) it's only VERY recently that urban music has gained share on that particular network. Look at the entire history of the network and find that your genre is more or less missing. Then there CMT, VH1, etc.

Look, like I said, you can rationalize it nine ways from sunday, but you're EVERY BIT as biased as I am. You like it, I hate it, neither are right.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Why is it OK to derail a hip-hop thread with your negative opinions of the genre? I never see this in rock/metal threads.

It would be just as OK there if anyone were inclined to do so. As a general rule, I don't like hip-hop. I do happen to like BT&H.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: jjsole
Collins looks great. God for him for taking care of himself as he's becoming an old man (58).

He didn't though. Although he looks good, he's deaf now.

 

[wkabel23]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
...incessant whining...

:roll:

We get the point, you don't like rap. Now kindly exit the thread about rap, so those of us that enjoy rap can discuss the song without some asshat running around shouting "HEY GUYS LOOK AT ME!!! I DON'T LIKE RAP!!! YOU'RE BIASED TOO!!!"

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
I prefer 2pac's "cover/sample" of Phil Collins's - in the air tonight.
link

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
On a side note, I'm sick and tired of no-talent ass clowns sampling someone else's work and receiving praise for it. That is all.

I don't quite understand why some people hate covers/samples so much. It's not like this new version somehow degrades the existing work. The existing work still.. um.. exists. It's still there in all it's glory. A newer take on it, targeted to a different audience, does not diminish it in anyway. Still, opinions, like assholes, are evenly distributed throughout humanity and I don't claim to speak for everyone.. I just don't get the hate. It seems so misplaced to me.

It mostly applies to rap, if Guns & Roses remakes a Bob Dylan song, people go "OHHH SHIT THIS IS GREAT!!!" But if a rapper uses the music from the same Bob Dylan song in one of theirs, it because crap instantly. Rap gets bad mouthed by a lot of people. But it's still the most popular music in the world. I guess you can't make everyone happy all the time.

Well, in the first place Bob Dylan wrote, produced, or performed an ENORMOUS amount of the music for better than three decades, so he might not be the best example to draw on. However, to use your example, I never much praised the G&R Knockin on Heaven's Door, though neither did it offend me (mostly because metal/hard rock doesn't offend me in the same way most urban music seems to).

Also remember that there's a WORLD of difference between covering a song, and sampling a song.

As to the most popular music, don't make me laugh. Let's add up the total number of rap albums in circulation, then add up the total number of classical albums ever in circulation. Or maybe try it with gospel/hymnals. Crap, find me a rap album that outsold the White album. In fact:

(top selling albums in the world)
Thriller
Back in Black
Eagles Greatest Hits
The Bodyguard Soundtrack (ok, you could call this one r&bish)
Phantom of the Opera
Millennium
Saturday Night Fever
Dark Side of the Moon
Come on Over
Bat out of Hell
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Falling into You
Led Zeppelin IV
Music Box (ok, kind of popish)
Dirty Dancing Soundtrack
Let's Talk About Love

....

I could go on all day. Rap is NOT popular in any meaningful way. Not compared to nearly every other type of music in existence. What music is reprinted the most for education or recital? Classical. What music is performed in most schools? Classical, or folk.

This doesn't mean there isn't some rap/hip-hop/etc that I enjoy. There is some...but it's such a tiny percentage as to basically be moot.

Your White Album argument is fail because it's ONE album, one album does not define an entire genre.

You're not understanding my point, having the top selling album of all time isn't the same as comparing an entire genre of music to another. While there is no 1 rap album on that list, as a whole rap is the biggest selling music world wide PERIOD. If you want to get technical, nobody except the Beatles has sold as many albums as Mariah Carey, so I should just say Mariah > all music right? It's not that easy. Mariah represents one artist, as does the Beatles & Elvis. Look at the top 100 charts for the past 10 years and you will see Rap as a whole outsells everything. Not just in America, in most countries. As for popular, turn on MTV, what will you see playing most of the time? I'll give you a hint, not any of the albums, or artists you listed. How is most played on TV, and the majority of radio stations not meaningful? in LA I think we have 7 "urban" stations that play rap & r&b. Where we have 1 country (which I think is about to die) and 1 classic rock and 1 alternative.

How do you define meaningful?

And your argument fails because it's almost entirely an urban phenomenon. Radio, and in fact ALL media outlets are controlled entirely by corporate interests which are supported by advertising dollars. What that means is media is going to play what people in inner cities request/like by majority because it provides the broadest target audience to their advertisers. While cities are big, they are NOT the majority of the population, and are a slim slim portion of the overall area. So if 51% of cities (which are less than 50% of the population) wants urban music, then urban music is what gets played, regardless of actual interest. Furthermore, urban music is a cultural thing, not just music. It carries with it vast revenues in accessories, clothing, etc and is therefore worth FAR more than, say, 60s psychedelic which encourages divestiture of material goods. It's all just business, and it's all bullshit.

Your MTV argument is utter crap because: a) mtv doesn't play music anymore for the most part, and b) it's only VERY recently that urban music has gained share on that particular network. Look at the entire history of the network and find that your genre is more or less missing. Then there CMT, VH1, etc.

Look, like I said, you can rationalize it nine ways from sunday, but you're EVERY BIT as biased as I am. You like it, I hate it, neither are right.

I never even said I like rap, in fact I hate everything of it they play on the radio. The rap I listen to sells no real copies. But the radio wouldn't play rap if it didn't generate $$$. And if it wasn't popular it wouldn't be generating $$$. Today Rap is the most influential music in the world, trucks come with bigger rims because of rap as one example. My Bro In Law HATES rap, but his new Ford truck had big shiny rims from the factory because rap made it popular. If you go to Japan millions of kids over there break dance, same thing in Germany, Poland, you name the country. Rap has been around a fraction the time of most other genres. Yet it generates the most $$$ today. This isn't my bias talking, I have worked retail, and I have dealt directly with distributors. If there wasn't interest it wouldn't get played. The radio stations don't care what they play as long as it makes them a buck, I would even wager most of the big wigs at Clear Channel Communications don't even like rap and wish they could play other music. But there's not money there. So they follow the dollar plain and simple. Lil Wayne makes me cringe, but that doesn't change the fact he had the biggest selling album in the US last year - one which went platinum in a week. And one of the 10 biggest albums in the world for the year. This is the trend, and if anything it's only getting stronger.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: wkabel23

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
...incessant whining...

:roll:

We get the point, you don't like rap. Now kindly exit the thread about rap, so those of us that enjoy rap can discuss the song without some asshat running around shouting "HEY GUYS LOOK AT ME!!! I DON'T LIKE RAP!!! YOU'RE BIASED TOO!!!"

Already said I was. I came to check it out, did so, and said I didn't like it. Others got into the discussion surrounding it, and I defended my position. It's called a debate, or possibly just a conversation if you like. It's not like I randomly walked in thread-crapping about something unrelated. So chill the fuck out.

 

[ultimatebob]

Phil Collins is da man... when is he going to put out a new album?

 

[wkabel23]

This song is nice and relaxed...I love the chill beat and the mellow verses. Give it up to Chrome Bone (ol' Phil) for sounding great and appearing in the video...was really nice to see artists of such different genres/generations together.

BTNH is one of my favorite rap groups. I saw them on a reunion tour ~4 years ago and it easily was one of the best concerts I've attended. Ecstasy was the encore...........ahhhhhhhh what a great time.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
I prefer 2pac's "cover/sample" of Phil Collins's - in the air tonight.
link

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
On a side note, I'm sick and tired of no-talent ass clowns sampling someone else's work and receiving praise for it. That is all.

I don't quite understand why some people hate covers/samples so much. It's not like this new version somehow degrades the existing work. The existing work still.. um.. exists. It's still there in all it's glory. A newer take on it, targeted to a different audience, does not diminish it in anyway. Still, opinions, like assholes, are evenly distributed throughout humanity and I don't claim to speak for everyone.. I just don't get the hate. It seems so misplaced to me.

It mostly applies to rap, if Guns & Roses remakes a Bob Dylan song, people go "OHHH SHIT THIS IS GREAT!!!" But if a rapper uses the music from the same Bob Dylan song in one of theirs, it because crap instantly. Rap gets bad mouthed by a lot of people. But it's still the most popular music in the world. I guess you can't make everyone happy all the time.

Well, in the first place Bob Dylan wrote, produced, or performed an ENORMOUS amount of the music for better than three decades, so he might not be the best example to draw on. However, to use your example, I never much praised the G&R Knockin on Heaven's Door, though neither did it offend me (mostly because metal/hard rock doesn't offend me in the same way most urban music seems to).

Also remember that there's a WORLD of difference between covering a song, and sampling a song.

As to the most popular music, don't make me laugh. Let's add up the total number of rap albums in circulation, then add up the total number of classical albums ever in circulation. Or maybe try it with gospel/hymnals. Crap, find me a rap album that outsold the White album. In fact:

(top selling albums in the world)
Thriller
Back in Black
Eagles Greatest Hits
The Bodyguard Soundtrack (ok, you could call this one r&bish)
Phantom of the Opera
Millennium
Saturday Night Fever
Dark Side of the Moon
Come on Over
Bat out of Hell
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Falling into You
Led Zeppelin IV
Music Box (ok, kind of popish)
Dirty Dancing Soundtrack
Let's Talk About Love

....

I could go on all day. Rap is NOT popular in any meaningful way. Not compared to nearly every other type of music in existence. What music is reprinted the most for education or recital? Classical. What music is performed in most schools? Classical, or folk.

This doesn't mean there isn't some rap/hip-hop/etc that I enjoy. There is some...but it's such a tiny percentage as to basically be moot.

Your White Album argument is fail because it's ONE album, one album does not define an entire genre.

You're not understanding my point, having the top selling album of all time isn't the same as comparing an entire genre of music to another. While there is no 1 rap album on that list, as a whole rap is the biggest selling music world wide PERIOD. If you want to get technical, nobody except the Beatles has sold as many albums as Mariah Carey, so I should just say Mariah > all music right? It's not that easy. Mariah represents one artist, as does the Beatles & Elvis. Look at the top 100 charts for the past 10 years and you will see Rap as a whole outsells everything. Not just in America, in most countries. As for popular, turn on MTV, what will you see playing most of the time? I'll give you a hint, not any of the albums, or artists you listed. How is most played on TV, and the majority of radio stations not meaningful? in LA I think we have 7 "urban" stations that play rap & r&b. Where we have 1 country (which I think is about to die) and 1 classic rock and 1 alternative.

How do you define meaningful?

And your argument fails because it's almost entirely an urban phenomenon. Radio, and in fact ALL media outlets are controlled entirely by corporate interests which are supported by advertising dollars. What that means is media is going to play what people in inner cities request/like by majority because it provides the broadest target audience to their advertisers. While cities are big, they are NOT the majority of the population, and are a slim slim portion of the overall area. So if 51% of cities (which are less than 50% of the population) wants urban music, then urban music is what gets played, regardless of actual interest. Furthermore, urban music is a cultural thing, not just music. It carries with it vast revenues in accessories, clothing, etc and is therefore worth FAR more than, say, 60s psychedelic which encourages divestiture of material goods. It's all just business, and it's all bullshit.

Your MTV argument is utter crap because: a) mtv doesn't play music anymore for the most part, and b) it's only VERY recently that urban music has gained share on that particular network. Look at the entire history of the network and find that your genre is more or less missing. Then there CMT, VH1, etc.

Look, like I said, you can rationalize it nine ways from sunday, but you're EVERY BIT as biased as I am. You like it, I hate it, neither are right.

I never even said I like rap, in fact I hate everything of it they play on the radio. But the radio wouldn't play it if it didn't generate $$$. And if it wasn't popular it wouldn't be generating $$$. Today Rap is the most influential music in the world, trucks come with bigger rims because of rap as one example. My Bro In Law HATES rap, but his new Ford truck had big shiny rims from the factory because rap made it popular. If you go to Japan millions of kids over there break dance, same thing in Germany, Poland, you name the country. Rap has been around a fraction the time of most other genres. Yet it generates the most $$$ today. This isn't my bias talking, I have worked retail, and I have dealt directly with distributors. If there wasn't interest it wouldn't get played. The radio stations don't care what they play as long as it makes them a buck, I would even wager most of the big wigs at Clear Channel Communications don't even like rap and wish they could play other music. But there's not money there. So they follow the dollar plain and simple. Lil Wayne makes me cringe, but that doesn't change the fact he had the biggest selling album in the US last year - one which went platinum in a week. And one of the 10 biggest albums in the world for the year. This is the trend, and if anything it's only getting stronger.

You just more or less agreed with everything I said. You're just failing to make the connection that those things don't equate to overall interest as a percentage of population, or any other rational benchmark.

How exactly does you working retail somewhere mean a diddlers damn? If you'd worked retail in rural Oklahoma you would have an entirely different take on what was 'popular' since most of what you sold would be country or old school rock.

Please provide me peer-reviewed research listing the actual $$$ brought in from music of various genres. Without this information you have an opinion, not facts.

Again, you're spouting NOTHING but your opinion, with NOTHING beyond personal experience and hearsay as supporting evidence. You have no argument, just an opinion.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Phil Collins is da man... when is he going to put out a new album?

Since he became deaf, he said he wasn't doing anything else. He even killed his fan site. Maybe this will cause him to change his mind. I hope so, I had a chance to see him not too long ago, and didn't. I'd love to have another chance.