If I tatoo to your forehead the phrase repeated over aqnd over and over and over - the history that he begand the war with England not targetting civilians with bombers in England, and how the war escalated to where civilians were openly targetted - would it help you stop the lying? It's been pointed out very clearly, yet you are here ignoring what was actually said and lying about it.
If I tatoo to your forehead the phrase repeated over aqnd over and over and over - the history that he begand the war with England not targetting civilians with bombers in England, and how the war escalated to where civilians were openly targetted - would it help you stop the lying? It's been pointed out very clearly, yet you are here ignoring what was actually said and lying about it.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
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Once again ignoring the Poles, the Dutch, the bombing raids and wolfpack attacks against merchant shipping and everything prior to England. Yes, yes, we know...Hitler was a great guy who was just misunderstood and really wanted to fight a war with rainbows and kitty cats until those damn Brits came along and spilled his milk.
Yet there's a double standard. When our policies kill people in other countries, they don't get to have that 'demand for blood' against us.
Just look at public reaction after 9/11, they wanted someone to pay. being that AQ couldn't be pinpointed we had to go for the next best, the Taliban.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the shock doctrine, of how people used the 9/11 reaction to create public support for the war and other policies in Iraq, that had not been politically tenable before.
You are a liar.
I didn't ignore a thing. I didn't write a history of every wrong in WWII. I didn't deny any of those things. I was discussing one particular part of the history - unlike you, accurately.
Indeed, I'd mentioned some of those acts specifically - and more you did not. I guess you are 'ignoring' the horror of Hitler's attack on Spain in 1937, making you a Hitler lover, after I discussed it.
Clearly you think Hitler was a great guy who was abuot kitty cats. You are a liar. Time for you to shut up.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
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You originally said:
"On another note, the people hear cheering 'total war' are disgusting and immoral.
Even Hitler began the war respecting the international law against civilian targetted bombing and when a few bombs feel on residential London, he apologized."
Later you narrowed the focus to England as if that was the only part of the war actually happening. It is generally recognized that WWII began with Germany's attack on Poland and the subsequent declaration of war from France and Britain.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
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Dumbass I'm the one that originally posted the things about the Poles, the Dutch and the merchant shipping. I didn't post anything about Spain since that wasn't part of WWII. Yes I know you did, yet somehow you seem to keep ignoring the fact that the Luftwaffe targeted civilians in all those attacks and instead focus on the Brits attacking Berlin as the first time civilians were targeted in WWII.
You continue to say Hitler didn't want to target civilians which is clearly untrue. You continue to make excuses for the actions of Germany in WWII. You continue to place the blame for civilian bombings on the British. Hell you have even tried to use actions in WWII as an attack on the Bush Administration. Why do you do all these things? Because for some reason you seem hell bent on proving yourself to be an even bigger douche than what everyone here already knows you to be.
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Sigh. Did he kill JFK too? Starting a war that killed 50 million and the Holocaust aren't enough?
That link is not 'total war'. It's a mistaken sinking of a ship sailing with lights out and zig zagging.
As your own link suggests, that was not how passenger ships were supposer to sail and made it suspicious. While the Nazis covered up the mistake, it's far from 'total war' in that incident.
Why are you heping Hitler with a false accusation?
Yes, that was clarified. Hitler started out his bombing of England restricted to (to repeat this for the umpteenth time) military targets, until an accident, when England bombed German civilians, then Hitler bombed English civilians, and so on. This was after a number of other incidents - as I noted, Hitler wiped out a Spanish city in 1937 that was clearly an attack on civiliains. There was the attack on the city center of Rotterdam, and on Warsaw.
The point was simply that the people who cry for total war as a good thing can be contrasted to even the worst mass murderer, Hitler, insofar as Hitler avoided it in some cases.
As far as Warsaw - I've seen the case made that it was not 'total war', not illegal insofar as targetting civilians, since it was in conjunction with the ground forces under 'siege bombing', as opposed to simply bombing civilian areas for the sake of terror/demoralization/etc. I odn't know the merit of that argument; it does seem to have been beleived by some. Reportedly the French in Warsaw determined the bombing had been within the rules. I also mentioned the Germans targetting the Jewish Quarter that seems to be to have been clearly illegal civilian bombing.
Hitler was a monster who launched a war killing tens of millions and millions of innocents slaughtered for various reasons.
That doesn't change the history that not in every case did he act as badly - for example, that generally western air force prisoners seemed to get 'decent' prison treatment.
That quirk doesn't apologize for his wrongs to others - it's just part of the accurate story.
It doesn't change the larger context the airmen never should have had to be at war but for him in the first place. But it would make charges he did somethign else to them false.
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K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
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It's a selective example of restraint against a record that indicates it was an exception not the rule. Hitler wanted to avoid bombing civilian targets because he knew the RAF could do the same to German cities, not out of any higher moral considerations.
It was probably inevitable that this eventually happen since WWII aerial bombing was often off target due to various reasons.
That the evidence says the Germans began the war with England trying to follow the submarine rules; that after the mistake above a few weeks later, and merchant ships were armed, calling for help at the sight of a submarine precluding the time to follow the rescue operation, that the merchants were made part of the military intelligence gathering, that the order above was issued allowing closer to unrestricted submarine warfare; that the US authorized unrestricted submarine warfare from the day it entered the war, and England later did too, so that the head of the U-boats was not punished at Nuremberg for the order above.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/juddoeni.asp
One wiki article said that the 'submarine rules were obsolete before they were approved' because the merchant ships radioing for help on sight of a submarine meant the submarines would be sunk.
But it does show a very aggressive policy approved by the Nazis for their U-boats, deadly for the merchant ships - as were the policies of all sides in the war for their submarines for similar reasons.
yottabit
Golden Member
- Jun 5, 2008
- 1,656
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If you want to see first hand the extent of the destruction of Dresden (and "total war" in general) you can check out the tribute video I made... it was one of the first video projects I ever did many years ago in High School:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3YvXdsz-w4
My intent was not to take any signs but show that war is truly an awful thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3YvXdsz-w4
My intent was not to take any signs but show that war is truly an awful thing.
Who cares if the US or British navies did unrestricted submarine warfare, you keep trying to state that Germany did not participate in Total War. The evil Allied powers used it, but so did the kind kitten loving Axis.
No, I never said that. The misrepresentation of what I said every time continues with another example. Of COURSE the Nazis participated in 'total war' and worse - but not in every situation.
Perhaps Germany shouldn't have STARTED the war? Its like the guy who punches someone in a bar then complains that the guy he hit kicked his ass. Don't throw the punch?
Hmm, I'd love to see a source stating he apologized
...Are you going to add that little tidbit to Wikipedia to try to save yourself some embarrassment? FYI, a Google search of "Hitler" "apologized" "bombing" has your post here as the second result...Hitler didn't apologize much And Hitler most certainly demonstrated he didn't care about international law...he didn't want to bomb London because he knew there would be retaliation...which is exactly what happened when a dumb ass German pilot mistakenly dropped his bombs on London to start the whole carpet bombing mess.
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