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Bolt on Turbo
- Thread starter Dice144
- Start date
power_hour
Senior member
Besides potentially ruining a perfectly decent car, you will destroy its resale value. Just trade it on a Cobalt SS if you really really need more speed. But honestly, does any of this make any sense?
FuzzyDunlop
Diamond Member
Its a cobalt.
alkalinetaupehat
Senior member
Model-specific enthusiast forums will do a lot for you. Boosting is possible, but you need to find out what the motor and drivetrain will take, and should consider a limited-slip differential as part of the upgrade.
The basic idea is that most engines are capable of about 5psi of boost, you cheat the ECU tuning with a piggyback, open up the exhaust, and get an EGT sensor to make sure you aren't blowing it up. There's a lot more to account for so you don't grenade your motor or wreck other parts of your car, the enthusiast forums will point you in the right direction AND you get to learn from others' mistakes.
The basic idea is that most engines are capable of about 5psi of boost, you cheat the ECU tuning with a piggyback, open up the exhaust, and get an EGT sensor to make sure you aren't blowing it up. There's a lot more to account for so you don't grenade your motor or wreck other parts of your car, the enthusiast forums will point you in the right direction AND you get to learn from others' mistakes.
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Unless you are talking Corvetts/Domestic V8 and A LOT of money......rule of thumb is, never EVER put a turbo on a NA car.
Most turbo engines are build to withstand double the horsepower.
Most NA engines are right on the edge. Unless you are rebuilding internals and have thousands to throw off the cliff into what will eventually turn out to "MAYBE a V6 Camry killer"......I suggest you don't do it.
Also, don't mess/modify cars until:
- you own a house
- you own a garage
- you have a daily A to B vehicle
I don't want to get into much detail so you will have to trust me on above.
Most turbo engines are build to withstand double the horsepower.
Most NA engines are right on the edge. Unless you are rebuilding internals and have thousands to throw off the cliff into what will eventually turn out to "MAYBE a V6 Camry killer"......I suggest you don't do it.
Also, don't mess/modify cars until:
- you own a house
- you own a garage
- you have a daily A to B vehicle
I don't want to get into much detail so you will have to trust me on above.
exdeath
Lifer
Not worth it without serious money. The same $5000+ turbo kit on a plain Jane car that gets you +50 HP could get you +200+ HP on a car built around boost (eg factory boosted or built block)
The return on investment on a turbo kit is going to be much better on specific cars that enthusiasts flock to for that reason. In short, start out with a better platform that will make the most out of your turbo kit. Nobody likes to spend $5k+ to run 5 psi when the same turbo kit can run 20 psi on another car and be 3x faster. That's the reason nobody really does it.
Better off with a Cobalt SS replacing the supercharger with a turbo if you want.
The return on investment on a turbo kit is going to be much better on specific cars that enthusiasts flock to for that reason. In short, start out with a better platform that will make the most out of your turbo kit. Nobody likes to spend $5k+ to run 5 psi when the same turbo kit can run 20 psi on another car and be 3x faster. That's the reason nobody really does it.
Better off with a Cobalt SS replacing the supercharger with a turbo if you want.
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pauldun170
Diamond Member
Cheaper (over the long run) just to buy a used Cobalt SS or do a drive train swap out of a wrecked SS.
I wouldn't sink that money into a Cobalt. Trade in for [pick any one of a dozen faster cars in the price range of Cobalt+turbo kit price].
What an absurdly black-and-white, ignorant, overly-generalized opinion. Pay no attention to anything other than the suggestion of having alternate transportation. Don't even get me started on this 'most NA engines are right on the edge' and 'turbo engines can handle double their power' nonsense.
What an absurdly black-and-white, ignorant, overly-generalized opinion. Pay no attention to anything other than the suggestion of having alternate transportation. Don't even get me started on this 'most NA engines are right on the edge' and 'turbo engines can handle double their power' nonsense.
How about you you point out where I'm wrong and prove me wrong vs spit out bunch of BS.
It's a generalization/rule of thumb, doesn't mean it applies to EVERY SINGLE CAR in the world.
Sure, you can turbo ANY car with ANY engine, but the big question is "for how".
mmntech
Lifer
That's all that needs to be said, isn't it. Me and the Cobalt have a long history together. The rental company I worked for had hundreds of them in their fleet. Got them at cost when GM took a nose dive. It's the quintessential beater car. Clunky, cheaply built, questionable reliability, makes strange noises as you drive it. God were we glad to see them finally go.
You could probably get 4-5 grand for it if it's in good shape and reasonable mileage. Lets say you'd spend $2k on the turbo kit, so that's $7k to work with. I don't know how much they cost so lets just lowball it.
Spotted on Autotrader.ca was an 2001 Audi A4 Quattro for $7000. Only 122,000 KM. Also for that price a Mitsubishi Eclipse, 1992 Chevy Camero, my own sexy and stylish 2005 Honda Civic LX-G. Obviously the seller is a very tasteful person as it's even in the same colour as my car. Oh, also spotted was a Marcades Benz CLK430, several F-150s, a 1969 Cadillac pimp mobile, a few early 2000s luxury SUVs, Lexus ES 200. My point being with what you'd spend turbocharging the thing, you could get a lot nicer car.
jlee
Lifer
Miata motors and Toyota 5VZ and 3VZFE motors are n/a and can easily handle boost.
I have been modifying cars for ten years - well before house and garage. Why should you restrict yourself from having fun until you meet specific criteria? Might as well tell someone to never go out to a bar or have a gf or (insert anything that costs money) until you "own a house."
The only thing I agree with you on is having a second vehicle.
I have been modifying cars for ten years - well before house and garage. Why should you restrict yourself from having fun until you meet specific criteria? Might as well tell someone to never go out to a bar or have a gf or (insert anything that costs money) until you "own a house."
The only thing I agree with you on is having a second vehicle.
Okay, here goes.
Turbo cars that cannot tolerate double stock power levels on a stock engine:
Mazdaspeed 3 (263->526hp)
Mazdaspeed Protege (230hp->260hp)
Mazdaspeed Miata (180hp->360hp)
MK2 MR2 Turbo (200+hp->400+hp)
WRX/FXT (200-260hp -> 400-520+hp)
STI (289hp->578hp)
GTI (200hp->400hp)
300ZX TT (300hp->600hp)
335i (302bhp->604bhp) (or any twin-turbo BMW for that matter)
S80 T6 (~240hp->480hp)
S60 T5 (~240hp->480hp)
V70R (250hp->500hp)
S60R (300hp->600hp)
XC70 (330hp->660hp)
SAAB 9-3 (~180-250hp->360-500hp)
NA cars that can handle significant power increases* through boosting on a stock block:
Mazda BP6 (in many cars) (110bhp->230whp)
Mazda BP8 (in a few cars) (140bhp->240whp)
NC Miata (2.0L duratec, also some Fords) (160bhp->250whp)
Ford/Mazda 2.3L duratec (in many cars) (140-160bhp->240whp)
Toyota 1zz (in many cars) (135bhp->220whp)
Toyota 2zz (in many cars) (165whp->275whp)
Toyota 5SFE (in many cars) (135bhp->250whp)
Honda B18x (in many cars) (~140bhp -> 200+whp)
Honda D16x (in many cars) (~90bhp-> 200+whp)
Honda F20 (S2K) (200hp->400+whp)
BMW M54B25 (i.e. E46 325i) (181bhp->275hp)
BMW M50B25 (i.e. E30 325i) (170bhp->280hp)
Nissan 350Z/370z (~230-250bhp->400+whp)
Lexus IS300 (215bhp->450+bhp)
Lotus Elise/Exige (200bhp->300whp)
*note that many have big increases over BRAKE hp with WHEEL hp.
Look, I'm starting to run out of cars that are not totally niche here. This represents literally millions (probably tens of millions) of cars and engines that contradict your wild-ass generalizations.
The only car I know of that is turbo and can double stock power with a stock engine is an Evo, but that is an exception, not the rule.
Sorry but plenty of people out there that are able to achieve these HP numbers on Stock Internals.
Of course that doesn't make it very reliable or lasts long, but it's possible. And if you trea the car right.....it can last.
Perhaps I shouldn't have used a word "double". But in general, Turbo engines are build stronger than NA engines and they can withstand more power.
I love how you used High HP cars for Turbo examples but low HP cars for NA examples.
Of course a stress of going from 100-200HP > 300-400hp are not as huge as going from 300hp> 600hp
Also all of the NA examples are stock internals right?
Ohh yea, your math is not adding up either.....
Also who in this world wants to turbo these pesky engines you posted?
:biggrin:
People with 1.8Ts have been doubling the HP on stock internals since the 90s....so no it's not an exception. If you do it right Turbo engines are build strong.
You are ALWAYS better off starting off with pre turboes car when modifying vs NA car > Turbo.
Of course if money is no object, either will do.
In this case we are talking about a Cobalt.
Sure, but their Factory Turbo motors can handle lot more increase than NA motors.
Too many reasons to list, but here is some.
Cars = money down the drain. That money could go towards down payment/mortgage. By the time you realize "money into car = money down the toilet" you most likely already set yourself back so far....you might never own a house.
Cars are a VERY expensive hobby. Make sure you have a stable place to live before you even THINK about messing with cars.
If you race, well all I can tell you is "if you can't push your car off the cliff TODAY, do NOT race it"
As far as garage, if you have a really nice car you simply don't want to waste 1/2 of your life keeping it mint. Also Garage is a nice place to do all of your maintenance/work. And car covers suck.....
Jimzz
Diamond Member
This. The time and money it would take to to it right you just better off getting on that was done right to begin with.
I told people with V6 and/or auto trans mustangs/camaros/firebirds the same thing.
jlee
Lifer
I have owned four MR2s, a turbocharged Subaru and a CTS-V (plus a few non performance vehicles). I also race. As does jch13. I know what it costs.
You can lecture me on money all you like - but different people have different priorities. What makes you so special that you can tell everyone else how to live?
Cobalts are actually pretty good cars (especially when you look at the GM of the 80s and 90s).
With the new model (Cruz) they have even surpassed "Cobalt accomplishments".
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