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Boeing puts India market at $35 bn
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CaptnKirk
Lifer
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Because in a world where there is an economic future, nobody cares how many airplanes
Boeing sold in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. They are done and delivered.
What really does matter is how many airplanes Boeing is selling in the 2000's &
2010's - and Airbus is eating Boeings lunch. Boeing had great opportunities to capitalize on their fleet dominance -
but chose not to persue it.
First - instead of coming up with a new airplane for a world market, they decided to buy-out McDonnell Douglas in a Technology Acquisition, they couldn't do some specific tasks and operations, so they took over a company that could, and proceeded to use the cash flow and assets from that purchase to engage in a political battle with Airbus - which they lost. In the meantine they (The New ! Improved ! -McBoeing) had sold off the property that they inherited from MacDac in Long Beach and Saint Louis, closed down all the Douglas Commercial Factory operations (one less compeditor to their 7xx lines) and had 4 of 6 major military contracts cancelled by the government as a result of Boeings lack of intrest in persuing the completion and extention of those programs. They shut the lines down and let them die.
Meanwhile back at McBoeing, they decided to move their 'Headquarters' to Chicago so they could buy the influence of Speaker Hasserts GOP machine and get the approval of the government to 'Lease' a fleet of tankers - for more money than an outright purchase would have produced. Then they got caught with their hands in the till with the influence peddling and the Pentagon Procurement Officer that went to Boeing as a reward for her skills in perpetuating a fraud. Boeing Executive Sears (in from MacDac) had to resign, as did Condit,
and the lady is now doing prison time. LINK
To further complicate matter, Boeing was not interested in taking on Airbus in the development of a 'World Class' superplane, they cancelled all efforts to develop an alternative to the A380, as it's concept didn't fit Boeing preconceived ideal of how an airplane should serve a 'World Market' - but they didn't apply a 'World Viewpoint' to the concept, they looked at it as how it would serve as a point to point service provider within the Continental U.S. with service to Hawaii & Europe. That's hardly a 'World View' when you ignore the entire Asian sector. We'll just keep building those old 747's until someone want's them - again. Well, they're obsolete now and not in demand - wrong decision.
Then they decided to produce the 7E7. Nice concept, but 5 years too late. They wasted all the lead time that they could have had banked in development, if they had chosen to actually build alternatives to what Airbus actually knew the worlds fleets wanted.
From my view from within - Boeing's in more trouble and has a much bleaker future, than most will see - or acknowledge.
Decadance by Egotism.
Stunt
Diamond Member
Excellent summary of Boeing's recent history CaptnKirk.
I'd love for them to succeed, but that doesn't include blindly saying they are dominating the commercial jet industry, just because they are american.
You can spin all you want, but investors arent stupid, it all comes down to revenues and profits.
On the commercial jet side, Boeing is hurting like no time before.
I love competition, it's great for all of us.
I'd love for them to succeed, but that doesn't include blindly saying they are dominating the commercial jet industry, just because they are american.
You can spin all you want, but investors arent stupid, it all comes down to revenues and profits.
On the commercial jet side, Boeing is hurting like no time before.
I love competition, it's great for all of us.
CaptnKirk
Lifer
So are you saying that Boeing has absolutely no role in its planes after they are delivered?
Warranty items, to a point, as limited or restrictred by vendors of installed equipment.
There come a time where all Boeing has is the responsibility of being able to sell spare parts and line replaceable items and equipment, but that too has a life limit, usually in the 20 - 25 years span, where Boeing no longer has to offer the spare parts.
If they still have them in inventory, you can purchase until they are exhausted.
After that, it's up to the individual carrier to make or purchase what they can.
Cannibalization of decomissioned aircraft is a multi million dollar business, Boeing doesn't partake in that particular business sector.
Some companies have 'Service Contracts' with Boeing to provide specific training and maintenance for some equipment.
There are many companies that exist only to provide Flight Line and Depot Facility service for airlines. Airlines usually service their own aircraft at hub level airports, but contract out to other companies their 'IRAN' (Inspect - Repair As Needed) and fatigue life repairs,
upgrades and enhancements.
Boeing does provide a Contracting Company - of Mercenary Mechanics to perform some of that work . . . .
if the price is right & you can afford it.
Warranty items, to a point, as limited or restrictred by vendors of installed equipment.
There come a time where all Boeing has is the responsibility of being able to sell spare parts and line replaceable items and equipment, but that too has a life limit, usually in the 20 - 25 years span, where Boeing no longer has to offer the spare parts.
If they still have them in inventory, you can purchase until they are exhausted.
After that, it's up to the individual carrier to make or purchase what they can.
Cannibalization of decomissioned aircraft is a multi million dollar business, Boeing doesn't partake in that particular business sector.
Some companies have 'Service Contracts' with Boeing to provide specific training and maintenance for some equipment.
There are many companies that exist only to provide Flight Line and Depot Facility service for airlines. Airlines usually service their own aircraft at hub level airports, but contract out to other companies their 'IRAN' (Inspect - Repair As Needed) and fatigue life repairs,
upgrades and enhancements.
Boeing does provide a Contracting Company - of Mercenary Mechanics to perform some of that work . . . .
if the price is right & you can afford it.
text
Airbus, Boeing dispute lamented
Boeing Jetliners Right Choice for India?s Growing Commercial Aviation Market
(Source: Boeing Co.; issued Feb. 10, 2005)
BANGALORE, India --- Dr. Dinesh A. Keskar, Boeing Commercial Airplanes vice president of Sales and president of Boeing Aircraft Trading, today underscored the financial benefits and competitive advantages Indian carriers will gain by investing in the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, 777-200LR (Longer Range)/-300ER (Extended Range), and 737-800 with Blended Winglets.
"Our newest airplanes for the medium, long, and ultra-long-haul markets are the right choice for Indian carriers," said Keskar. "Boeing?s family of products is clearly positioned to provide superior economics for India 's aviation market."
Keskar's claim is based on the fact that by introducing the most advanced technologies into the all-new 787-8, that airplane can carry a comparable number of passengers more comfortably, while burning 20 percent less fuel and costing 32 percent less per year to maintain than the A330-200. The 787-8 will also fly 1,500 nautical miles more than its competitor, opening new nonstop routes such as Delhi -- New York, Mumbai -- San Francisco, and Bangalore -- Sydney. In addition to the economic benefits and better range capabilities, the 787 will present passengers with innovations including a new interior environment with higher humidity, wider seats and aisles, larger windows, and other conveniences.
The 777-200LR will enable long-range nonstop flights between India and the United States. The airplane seats 11 more passengers, with four tonnes more cargo, than the A340-500. The 777-200LR also burns 20 percent less fuel and costs 15 per cent less to maintain per passenger than the A340-500.
The 777-300ER can carry 28 more passengers, with six tonnes more cargo than the A340-600. The airplane also burns 20 percent less fuel and costs 15 percent less to maintain per passenger. In addition to greater profit potential and lower operating costs, the 777-300ER has a higher resale value than its competitor.
The 737-800's economic advantages are the result of its ability to generate more revenue by carrying up to 12 more passengers and approximately one-half tonne more cargo than the A320. Industry data also reveals that the 737-800 costs 15 to 20 percent less to maintain than its competitor and can fly longer distances.
"To compete with airlines throughout the region and the world, Indian carriers will require the most cost effective and competitive advantages of passenger pleasing interiors," said Keskar. "Boeing airplane families are the right choice for Indian carriers as they begin to dramatically expand to connect India to the rest of the world."
Keskar provided a briefing on the "Future of Commercial Air Transportation -- A Boeing Perspective" to the Indian media during the Aero India 2005 show in Bangalore, which runs Feb. 9 to Feb 13. His presentation included an analysis of the commercial aircraft market and the Boeing strategy for delivering products and services that meet market needs and demands. Keskar said India 's long-term forecast for air travel is healthy and the pace of liberalization is accelerating in India.
"While Boeing continues to work with companies such as HAL, Infosys and Wipro Technologies, the potential for new partnerships with organizations such as the National Aerospace Laboratories in Bangalore are great," said Keskar.
Boeing Commercial Airplanes has a long history of delivering technologies that meet the needs of airlines and passengers. Boeing is committed to the success of the customers and commercial aviation as demonstrated by the launch of the 787.
The Boeing Company has been associated with Indian commercial aviation for more than 60 years and has enjoyed fruitful partnerships with the Indian airlines, and more recently, India's military.
-ends-
Airbus, Boeing dispute lamented
Boeing Jetliners Right Choice for India?s Growing Commercial Aviation Market
(Source: Boeing Co.; issued Feb. 10, 2005)
BANGALORE, India --- Dr. Dinesh A. Keskar, Boeing Commercial Airplanes vice president of Sales and president of Boeing Aircraft Trading, today underscored the financial benefits and competitive advantages Indian carriers will gain by investing in the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, 777-200LR (Longer Range)/-300ER (Extended Range), and 737-800 with Blended Winglets.
"Our newest airplanes for the medium, long, and ultra-long-haul markets are the right choice for Indian carriers," said Keskar. "Boeing?s family of products is clearly positioned to provide superior economics for India 's aviation market."
Keskar's claim is based on the fact that by introducing the most advanced technologies into the all-new 787-8, that airplane can carry a comparable number of passengers more comfortably, while burning 20 percent less fuel and costing 32 percent less per year to maintain than the A330-200. The 787-8 will also fly 1,500 nautical miles more than its competitor, opening new nonstop routes such as Delhi -- New York, Mumbai -- San Francisco, and Bangalore -- Sydney. In addition to the economic benefits and better range capabilities, the 787 will present passengers with innovations including a new interior environment with higher humidity, wider seats and aisles, larger windows, and other conveniences.
The 777-200LR will enable long-range nonstop flights between India and the United States. The airplane seats 11 more passengers, with four tonnes more cargo, than the A340-500. The 777-200LR also burns 20 percent less fuel and costs 15 per cent less to maintain per passenger than the A340-500.
The 777-300ER can carry 28 more passengers, with six tonnes more cargo than the A340-600. The airplane also burns 20 percent less fuel and costs 15 percent less to maintain per passenger. In addition to greater profit potential and lower operating costs, the 777-300ER has a higher resale value than its competitor.
The 737-800's economic advantages are the result of its ability to generate more revenue by carrying up to 12 more passengers and approximately one-half tonne more cargo than the A320. Industry data also reveals that the 737-800 costs 15 to 20 percent less to maintain than its competitor and can fly longer distances.
"To compete with airlines throughout the region and the world, Indian carriers will require the most cost effective and competitive advantages of passenger pleasing interiors," said Keskar. "Boeing airplane families are the right choice for Indian carriers as they begin to dramatically expand to connect India to the rest of the world."
Keskar provided a briefing on the "Future of Commercial Air Transportation -- A Boeing Perspective" to the Indian media during the Aero India 2005 show in Bangalore, which runs Feb. 9 to Feb 13. His presentation included an analysis of the commercial aircraft market and the Boeing strategy for delivering products and services that meet market needs and demands. Keskar said India 's long-term forecast for air travel is healthy and the pace of liberalization is accelerating in India.
"While Boeing continues to work with companies such as HAL, Infosys and Wipro Technologies, the potential for new partnerships with organizations such as the National Aerospace Laboratories in Bangalore are great," said Keskar.
Boeing Commercial Airplanes has a long history of delivering technologies that meet the needs of airlines and passengers. Boeing is committed to the success of the customers and commercial aviation as demonstrated by the launch of the 787.
The Boeing Company has been associated with Indian commercial aviation for more than 60 years and has enjoyed fruitful partnerships with the Indian airlines, and more recently, India's military.
-ends-
Stunt
Diamond Member
Pfffff....you are posting Boeing propoganda?
it's the website aimed to make it look like Boeing is perfect for the MASSIVE indian market (as predicted by boeing) where airbus is clearly dominating in marketshare, sales, and relatoinships.
Funny stuff raildogg.
But keep us updated on REAL news.
It's like nvidia doing an ati/nvidia comparison...little merrit in my books.
i want to see hard numbers in sales, and revenues.
Also: "the pace of liberalization is accelerating in India." this clearly benifits EU 😉 haha, lame joke 🙂
it's the website aimed to make it look like Boeing is perfect for the MASSIVE indian market (as predicted by boeing) where airbus is clearly dominating in marketshare, sales, and relatoinships.
Funny stuff raildogg.
But keep us updated on REAL news.
It's like nvidia doing an ati/nvidia comparison...little merrit in my books.
i want to see hard numbers in sales, and revenues.
Also: "the pace of liberalization is accelerating in India." this clearly benifits EU 😉 haha, lame joke 🙂
Stunt
Diamond Member
Raildogg, how come in your OP you have all these sales to other countries that are not India.
The topic is "Boeing puts India's market at $35B"
If you are doing a promotion of Boeing you might as well have kept the patriotic garbage in the other Airbus vs. Boeing article.
Straying off topic for your own delusional motives is not helping your credibility.
Is this about India's growing aerospace market, or promoting Boeing?
Cuz the latter seems to be the truth...how sad.
The topic is "Boeing puts India's market at $35B"
If you are doing a promotion of Boeing you might as well have kept the patriotic garbage in the other Airbus vs. Boeing article.
Straying off topic for your own delusional motives is not helping your credibility.
Is this about India's growing aerospace market, or promoting Boeing?
Cuz the latter seems to be the truth...how sad.
I am a American and I want Boeing to succeed and the American economy to grow. Thats it, like it or not.
And no, its not sad. What is sad however is people like you and others who constantly claim Airbus is better than Boeing and has better products, which is not the case.
The title is not misleading. It shows that there are a lot of untapped markets around the world and Boeing can capitalize on them.
Stunt
Diamond Member
Understandable, but fooling yourself into thinking that "Boeing and has better products" due to your blind patriotism is quite sad.
You are stretching the topic and original article to suit your own motives and to hide the obvious domination of airbus in the indian aerospace market.
Actually, since 2003 Boeing has made more money in its defense sector than the civilian aircraft market. Thats the first time it has done that in its history
Maybe if Boeing can sell 126 F-18's to India, that'll give it some boost against its larger competitor in the defense market, Lockheed Martin.
Stunt
Diamond Member
a) They are sucking money off the gov't. At today's deficits, gov't spending on more military will come to an end.
b) Most of their revenues are coming from defense cuz they are losing the civilian aircraft biz to airbus.
c) Isn't Lockheed American?...Shouldnt you be cheering them on too?
b) Most of their revenues are coming from defense cuz they are losing the civilian aircraft biz to airbus.
c) Isn't Lockheed American?...Shouldnt you be cheering them on too?
Yeah Boeing does get large contracts from the Pentagon, so what?
Yes, the civilian aircraft markets have somewhat slowed down, especially American aviation. But things are starting to pick up again.
I'm not cheering anyone on. I was just saying that if Boeing does, although the chances are small, sell 126 F-18's to India it might give it some leverage on Lockheed Martin.
Remember, Boeing took a huge hit when the govt. picked Lockheed Martin instead of Boeing for the Joint Strike Fighter.
Yes, the civilian aircraft markets have somewhat slowed down, especially American aviation. But things are starting to pick up again.
I'm not cheering anyone on. I was just saying that if Boeing does, although the chances are small, sell 126 F-18's to India it might give it some leverage on Lockheed Martin.
Remember, Boeing took a huge hit when the govt. picked Lockheed Martin instead of Boeing for the Joint Strike Fighter.
CaptnKirk
Lifer
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see that happening - the F-18 is a Carrier-Based Navy type aircraft, I'm not sure just how large of a Naval Fleet India has, and if they have the multiple Aircraft Carriers that it takes to support this type of machine. Yes, I know they can be shore based,
but stripped down, they fall short of what the F-16 provides at a simular price.
Since the F/A-18 C & D Model line was terminated in 2001, and the assembly building
sold and subsequently the assembly fixtures de-comissioned & moved into salvae/storage, there is no way that the line can be returned to service in less than 2 years. Long-lead parts & equipment would not be available for at least 3 years if the
decision was made to start today.
The only option for the F/A-18 sales would be a version of the E & F model, which is a
20% enlargement of the basic airframe with a complete airframe redesign which is now
in limited production for the Navy, and there is no way in hell that our government will be selling a top gun, first class fighter to a foriegn country when we don't have a full complement of them in our own inventory.
Let them buy the 30+ year old F-16 design if they want, but that's not even on the table for any form of production in the next 5 years - there is a standing backlog through 2010.
They will probably opt for Russian planes.
Boeings JSF option was a repackaging of the 30 year old Harrier Jump-Jet with a re-skinning, same obsolete technology that had serious compromises in design. It failed miserably in the flight evaluation phase against the Lockheed competition.
Sadly the best option was discarded in the initial phase of bidding, when the McDonnell Douglas version was passed over because it:
(A) didn't conform to what the Navy thought it should look like (No Vertical Stabalizer)
& (B) continued punishment for an ongoing dispute over the cancellation of the A-12 in 1991 under Bush-I
In response to CaptnKirk:
Well I think these are interesting articles.
India is probably now going to buy 126 F-16's according to the first article.
India's military hungry for more
India Chooses Russian Planes
MiG Gets Ready to Intercept the Contract
Also, there is a little bit of info that Russia and India are cooperating for the fifth generation fighter jet, the MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft). Looks like the Russians will get the contract worth up to $8 billion.
Well take your pick, who will win?
Well I think these are interesting articles.
India is probably now going to buy 126 F-16's according to the first article.
India's military hungry for more
India Chooses Russian Planes
MiG Gets Ready to Intercept the Contract
Also, there is a little bit of info that Russia and India are cooperating for the fifth generation fighter jet, the MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft). Looks like the Russians will get the contract worth up to $8 billion.
Well take your pick, who will win?
CaptnKirk
Lifer
Way back when, Pakistan actually had F-16's going down the line under construction.
The Clinton Administration terminated the deal because of the Pakistni Nuclear Program,
and those aircraft were build as 'White-Tails' - Generic F-16's that could be finished for
whatever 'Other' country that wanted to buy them.
Now there is effort under the Bush-II Administration to restore the purchase & make good
on completion of that sale - at 'Todays' prices, somewhat above the previous price structure.
Hasn't happened yet, and even at that there's still a 5 year backlog before a
customer can receive their first unit. So that would put India, if they wanted to play,
out to a 7, 8, or 9 year backlog before they could get their first vehicle.
They won't wait, and won't pay Euro-Fighter prices. My bet is they'll get Russian planes.
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