• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Boehner to debt committee. No new taxes.

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Texashiker said:
How many of those 1% can hire CPAs to find loop-holes in the laws?

How many own their own business and can use everything under the sun as a tax write-off?
Click to expand...

I have no info on that breakdown.

But realize that the top 1% have income (AGI) of (only?) about $380K, hardly "millionaires" and "billionaires" in terms of income.

Fern
 
Texashiker said:
The gubbermnet should not be in the business of creating jobs.

Here how things work:

Pass free trade laws so companies can move factories to china

Economy goes down

Government increases spending to hire people since the factories closed

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

It has to end somewhere.

It is not the role of government to create jobs, that is the roll of private business.
Click to expand...
Do the reverse of all of these and we still have no jobs though, so now what? Face it business owners miss their button sewers and that is ALL there is to it.
 
Texashiker said:
The gubbermnet should not be in the business of creating jobs.

Here how things work:

Pass free trade laws so companies can move factories to china

Economy goes down

Government increases spending to hire people since the factories closed

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

It has to end somewhere.

It is not the role of government to create jobs, that is the roll of private business.
Click to expand...

Taxes have not went up in 2 decades. They have been cut multiple times with very little effect in an effort to give the people who have lost their good paying jobs more money...in effect, trying to keep their standard of living not by wages increases, but tax decreases. Worked OK until most of the people went to zero federal or even negative on federal taxes.
 
Texashiker said:
No you are not.

You have not addressed the 3 taxes adding up to your supposed 26% or 27% that Americans pay in taxes.
Click to expand...

Why do I have to? You made a positive statement - that the average American pays 50%+ of their income in taxes. You now must prove this, and you haven't. I don't have to disprove your made up statement, you have to prove it. (I'm quite sure that by this point you have already searched around trying to and have been unable to find support for this)

http://EzineArticles.com/4863048
Click to expand...

By your own link, about 7.8 million Americans pay child support. Even if we only count the working population, this is about 7% of people, which means 93% or so of people do not do this. Why would we include that into our calculation for the average American again? (also, you still haven't explained why it's a tax)
 
Fern said:
Go back and look at what you wrote.

You're talking about people earning a million and paying taxes on it.

What you've found is a link about how many people have ASSETS of $1 million or more. Huge difference. One is income, the other is wealth.

Plenty of these people with wealth of $1 million or more never made anywhere near a lot in any year. I have many clients who have over a million in assets, they probably never had more than $50K or 60K in income. They're older and saved in their retirement plans etc., and in many cases their homes are paid off and have appreciated quite a lot.

Fern
Click to expand...
My grandfather had assets of around a million when he died and his whole life he earned less than $100,000. He bought land that was dirt cheap because it was grown up in scrub after being logged, was far from town, and was cliff & holler rather than good black river bottom. He built (literally) a very small three-room house, saved and built (literally) a bigger four room house, added a kitchen, bought the house he was raised in (four room), saved some more and finally built a still bigger (but under 1,500 square feet) house on a hilltop rather than in a holler. He worked typically ten to twelve hours a day/fifty to sixty hours a week, came home and worked some more to clear the land and farm what was poor ground, improved the soil, ate beans and potatoes and cornbread while selling his beef and pork and corn, never bought a new car. My parents did much the same thing, just without as much sacrifice, but with better (and two) incomes managed to achieve about the same net worth. I don't have anywhere near the same net worth, but that's my choice; we have cable TV, cell phones, fast Internet, and tons and tons of books, a (very old) bass boat and a new ($5,000) motorcycle. I chose not to sacrifice nearly as much, trading lifestyle for accumulated wealth. We ALL make that decision to one degree or another. We could easily live on half my income, just not with as much fun.

As you say, many millionaires today are just normal people who save their money and perhaps make good investments. That these people chose to live frugally and save and invest their money should not enable me to enjoy spending my own income, then get some of theirs too.
 
eskimospy said:
Why do I have to?
Click to expand...

I say that the average working person pays about 50% of their income to some kind of fee or tax, take it worth what its worth.

If you do not believe my statement fine, if you do believe it fine, either way I do not care.



With 3 taxes we are around 26% - 27% - if you work for someone else

If you work for yourself, add another 7%, so that is 33% - 34%.

3% of my income goes to property an school taxes, now we are up to 29% - 30% or 36% - 37% if you work for yourself.

Lets just do an average of 33% with income tax, social security, medicare/medicaid and property taxes.

Add another 6% in sales taxes - lets say that 75% of the stuff you buy has tax on it and the normal rate of tax is 8%

We are now up to 39%.

Now come the fees and hidden taxes, but these vary depending on how much you make. A $1 fee on your monthly cell phone bill is not going to affect someone that makes $100k a year.

How do you figure out 34 cents per gallon of gasoline highway tax?

According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration, the average American drives 13,476 mile

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

13,476 / 20 miles to the gallon = 673.8 gallons of gas on average.

.34 X 673.8 gallons of gas = $229.092 paid in highway fuel tax yearly.
 
Last edited:
If the rich paid a negative income tax, we SWEAR jobs will come back - Republican logic taken to the ultimate conclusion.
 
Texashiker said:
The gubbermnet should not be in the business of creating jobs.

Here how things work:

Pass free trade laws so companies can move factories to china

Economy goes down

Government increases spending to hire people since the factories closed

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

Economy goes down

Government increases spending so people will have jobs

Taxes go up

It has to end somewhere.

It is not the role of government to create jobs, that is the roll of private business.
Click to expand...

That isn't the way it currently works at all.....

Taxes do not go up to reflect the increase in .gov spending so the economy actually goes up instead of down (very basic math).

The problem is the law of exponents is catching up with us.
 
Texashiker said:
I say that the average working person pays about 50% of their income to some kind of fee or tax, take it worth what its worth.

If you do not believe my statement fine, if you do believe it fine, either way I do not care.



With 3 taxes we are around 26% - 27% - if you work for someone else

If you work for yourself, add another 7%, so that is 33% - 34%.

3% of my income goes to property an school taxes, now we are up to 29% - 30% or 36% - 37% if you work for yourself.

Lets just do an average of 33% with income tax, social security, medicare/medicaid and property taxes.

Add another 6% in sales taxes - lets say that 75% of the stuff you buy has tax on it and the normal rate of tax is 8%

We are now up to 39%.

Now come the fees and hidden taxes, but these vary depending on how much you make. A $1 fee on your monthly cell phone bill is not going to affect someone that makes $100k a year.

How do you figure out 34 cents per gallon of gasoline highway tax?

According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration, the average American drives 13,476 mile

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

13,476 / 20 miles to the gallon = 673.8 gallons of gas on average.

.34 X 673.8 gallons of gas = $229.092 paid in highway fuel tax yearly.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with believing you or not. You have offered up a bunch of conditional and off the cuff ideas for what Americans pay in tax while not noting refunds, different lifestyles, that most aren't self employed, etc.

Even in your perfect storm, you're straining to reach the level that you claim represent half of Americans.

Use real tax burdens calculated by reputable sources, use links, any link that shows what you're saying to be true. If not, just stop.
 
eskimospy said:
Use real tax burdens calculated by reputable sources, use links, any link that shows what you're saying to be true. If not, just stop.
Click to expand...

You want a reputable source?

Look at your pay check, look at the taxes at the bottom of the receipt when you buy something, look at the taxes on your cell phone bill, look at the taxes on your TV bill, and there used to be signs at the gas station saying how much tax was on each gallon of gas.

I do not need a website to tell me how bad the middle class is getting screwed.
 
Texashiker said:
No tax hikes

End lifetime entitlement programs.

If someone draws welfare and foodstamps for 20 years, that is a bit much. Enough is enough with people sucking on the tit of the gubbernment.

My wife and I know a family that has drawn food stamps and other government benefits of around 20 - 24,, maybe even 25 years. Nobody from the government will stand up and say "enough".
Click to expand...

Let them die.
 
Texashiker said:
You want a reputable source?

Look at your pay check, look at the taxes at the bottom of the receipt when you buy something, look at the taxes on your cell phone bill, look at the taxes on your TV bill, and there used to be signs at the gas station saying how much tax was on each gallon of gas.

I do not need a website to tell me how bad the middle class is getting screwed.
Click to expand...

This does not add up to 50%+. Still waiting.
 
Texashiker said:
I say that the average working person pays about 50% of their income to some kind of fee or tax, take it worth what its worth.

If you do not believe my statement fine, if you do believe it fine, either way I do not care.



With 3 taxes we are around 26% - 27% - if you work for someone else

If you work for yourself, add another 7%, so that is 33% - 34%.

3% of my income goes to property an school taxes, now we are up to 29% - 30% or 36% - 37% if you work for yourself.

Lets just do an average of 33% with income tax, social security, medicare/medicaid and property taxes.

Add another 6% in sales taxes - lets say that 75% of the stuff you buy has tax on it and the normal rate of tax is 8%

We are now up to 39%.

Now come the fees and hidden taxes, but these vary depending on how much you make. A $1 fee on your monthly cell phone bill is not going to affect someone that makes $100k a year.

How do you figure out 34 cents per gallon of gasoline highway tax?

According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration, the average American drives 13,476 mile

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

13,476 / 20 miles to the gallon = 673.8 gallons of gas on average.

.34 X 673.8 gallons of gas = $229.092 paid in highway fuel tax yearly.
Click to expand...


Average family of 3: Median income in the US: $45,018 (Wikipedia):
Let's say 6% state income tax and 6% sales tax and 1.5% local tax.
Let's assume house value of $100,000 and 2% annual property tax.

$45,018 * 0.0765 (SS and Medicare): $3,443.88
$45,018 * .06 (State tax assuming no state deductions): $2,701.08
$45,018 * .015 (local income tax assuming no deductions) = $675.25

$45,018 - 3 * 3700 - $11,600 (Federal exemptions and standard deduction): $22318 (taxable federal income)
$22,318 (Federal Income taxes) taxable income is broken down the following federal income tax:

$17,000 * 0.10 = $1,700
$5,318 * 0.15 = $797.7

After income tax income (before property and misc. taxes):
$45,018 - $3,443.88 - $2,701.08 - $1,700 - $797.70-$675.25 = $35,822.54

Let's assume that they spend 70% of take home pay and of that amount, 75% is taxable with sales tax: $35,822.54 * .70 * .75 * .06 (sales tax) = $1128.44

Let's assume 3% school tax, etc. on their bills and let's make that active on 50% of their take home pay: $35,822.54 * .5 * .03 = $537.34

Property taxes: $100,000 * .02 = $2,000

Gas and Misc. taxes: $1,000

Total taxes: $3,443.88 + $2,701.08 + $1,700 + 797.70 + $675.25 + $1,128.44 + $537.34 + $2,000 + $1,000 = $13983.69


$13983.69 / $45,018 = 31.06% TOTAL taxes.

Federal income tax % (no SS/Medicare): ($1,700 + $797.70) / $45,018 = 5.548%

Federal income tax % (with SS/Medicare): 13.198%

This is not counting any other deductions such as any retirement, medical coverage, etc. This also assumes no earned income credit, etc.
 
Last edited:
They should just can the debt committee. They won't agree on anything anyways, and even if they do, the Congress won't vote for it, so just let the automatic cuts kick in.
 
eskimospy said:
This does not add up to 50%+. Still waiting.
Click to expand...

You won't get anything, because he's making a faith based argument independent of facts.

He believes in lies, an all too common problem among Righties, and will jump headfirst into the Bunker O' Denial when called on it or anything else they believe. It's an intricate Jenga column, where questioning any small part might cause the whole edifice to collapse, so they don't, for reasons purely emotional.
 
The jobless need to march on the Republican party with pitch forks and drive them into extinction as a force in government.
 
Darwin333 said:
Blah.

The republicans, up until recently (and even now only a dog and pony show), have "fed" the beast quite well.
Click to expand...

That's what 'starve the beast' means, as long as the food is borrowed.

Starve the beast doesn't mean "cut spending", it means "overspend to build debt, to the point that drastic discretionary spending is forced out by debt payments."

The Republicans are the ONLY party before the current crash to run massive deficits in peacetime, to force just that.

Tonight Jimmy Carter said we need to get rid of the debt, Repubs spend too much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top