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Body Building
- Thread starter Nutcase99
- Start date
on usenet:
misc.fitness.weights
alt.sport.weightlifting
Whatever you do, do not put the the phrase "muscle tone" in a post to either group.
It is generally considered by weightlifters that "tone" does not exist, you either have muscles or you dont. The appearance of muscles that do exist are masked by the amount of fat you have covering them.
MFW is the more hostile group of the two. I suggest you lurk for a couple of weeks first before posting, to get a feel. In two weeks it almost a sure thing that somebody else will ask the question you want to, and you will get a feel for what is acceptable in the group.
Good Luck...
misc.fitness.weights
alt.sport.weightlifting
Whatever you do, do not put the the phrase "muscle tone" in a post to either group.
It is generally considered by weightlifters that "tone" does not exist, you either have muscles or you dont. The appearance of muscles that do exist are masked by the amount of fat you have covering them.
MFW is the more hostile group of the two. I suggest you lurk for a couple of weeks first before posting, to get a feel. In two weeks it almost a sure thing that somebody else will ask the question you want to, and you will get a feel for what is acceptable in the group.
Good Luck...
AudioBitch
Member
get down to a gym and ask someone to set you up with a workout...the best thing u can do is just get going...sometimes it takes people some time to get moving
the only thing that's gonna get u muscle is hard work and lots of lifting (the proper way)
trust me...i kno
you'll see results in 2 weeks if u work hard
enjoy
the only thing that's gonna get u muscle is hard work and lots of lifting (the proper way)
trust me...i kno
you'll see results in 2 weeks if u work hard
enjoy
Nutcase99
Golden Member
Wow thanks guys, I would go to the gym and ask there but the Gym here SUCKS!! There is like no one working there and they dont have many memebers cause its a part of a hotel 🙁 It's only a health club in the winter, thanks for the other info though. I just wanted to learn how to lift right ya know?
joecool222111
Banned
start out slow.....for tone do many sets of light wiehgts 3 times 15 reps....for bulk couple of set of 5 reps at heavy wieghts.....eat pleanty of protien like chicken or protein bars...it takes months to see results not days or weeks....work out each muscle group once a week and rest every couple days to give it time to rebuild otherwise your will feel yourself losing muscle and not gaining it
1) Stay with it. The guys you see in the gym who are ripped to pieces are the ones who workout everyday or every other day, week in and week out, and month after month.
2) Like joecool222111 said, repetition is the key to definition (which is what I assume you want)
3) Don't be embarrassed or discouraged if you lift less then everybody else in the gym. Concentrate on doing what YOU can do and doing it RIGHT. Forget about the guys throwing up 300+ on bench.
4) Stay away from supplimants. Yes, you will see huge gains in strength from them but some of all those calories are undoublably going to end up as fat. You will also become dependent on them and they overwork your kidneys (I think that's what my sister said, she's a nutrition major)
5) Do aerobic exercises also. I had the most energy and best physique of my life when I was running 3-miles a day three times and week and doing pullups while in ROTC. (Virtually no weight-lifting)
6) Work your abs atleast every other day, maybe everyday. (I think they can take it unlike other muscle groups, but not sure) Another thing about abs. It takes a long time to get a six or eight pack. Going easy on the desserts and heavy on the fruits and vegies will help this by making your gains more visible.
Well that is just my gleanings. I'm no expert but I played HS football for 4 years, HS wrestling for 3 years, and did a year of Marine Corp ROTC so I've had some physical training.
Good luck.
2) Like joecool222111 said, repetition is the key to definition (which is what I assume you want)
3) Don't be embarrassed or discouraged if you lift less then everybody else in the gym. Concentrate on doing what YOU can do and doing it RIGHT. Forget about the guys throwing up 300+ on bench.
4) Stay away from supplimants. Yes, you will see huge gains in strength from them but some of all those calories are undoublably going to end up as fat. You will also become dependent on them and they overwork your kidneys (I think that's what my sister said, she's a nutrition major)
5) Do aerobic exercises also. I had the most energy and best physique of my life when I was running 3-miles a day three times and week and doing pullups while in ROTC. (Virtually no weight-lifting)
6) Work your abs atleast every other day, maybe everyday. (I think they can take it unlike other muscle groups, but not sure) Another thing about abs. It takes a long time to get a six or eight pack. Going easy on the desserts and heavy on the fruits and vegies will help this by making your gains more visible.
Well that is just my gleanings. I'm no expert but I played HS football for 4 years, HS wrestling for 3 years, and did a year of Marine Corp ROTC so I've had some physical training.
Good luck.
billandopus
Platinum Member
misc.fitness.weights on usenet (deja.com)
check out the MFW FAQ and site at:
www.trygve.com/mfw.html
Excellent site.
check out the MFW FAQ and site at:
www.trygve.com/mfw.html
Excellent site.
Some agreement and disagreements:
<1) Stay with it. The guys you see in the gym who are ripped to pieces are the ones who workout everyday or every other day, week in and week out, and month after month.>
Agree... Even if you have setbacks, just come back to working out.
<2) Like joecool222111 said, repetition is the key to definition (which is what I assume you want)>
Disagree, definition is determined by body fat levels. You either have muscle or you dont, the amount of fat covering it determines "definition". Reps mostly determine strength gains and what muscle fibers get the most effect from the work. Most people do really well in the 3 sets of 8 - 12 reps range, most people, that means it isnt true for everybody.
<3) Don't be embarrassed or discouraged if you lift less then everybody else in the gym. Concentrate on doing what YOU can do and doing it RIGHT. Forget about the guys throwing up 300+ on bench.>
Agree, great advice on doing it right. Improperly doing an exercise is a the sure way to get injured. Dont compare yourself to gym regulars, always look at your own progress for comparisons.
<4) Stay away from supplimants. Yes, you will see huge gains in strength from them but some of all those calories are undoublably going to end up as fat. You will also become dependent on them and they overwork your kidneys (I think that's what my sister said, she's a nutrition major)>
Some disagreement, in a perfect world you would have a perfect diet and not be missing nutrients. In reality, supplements will probably be needed in some form, either as simple vitamins or in protein supplementation. Figuring out what you need is often not very easy. In body building, when you eat is as important as what you eat, lots of small meals is the key.
<5) Do aerobic exercises also. I had the most energy and best physique of my life when I was running 3-miles a day three times and week and doing pullups while in ROTC. (Virtually no weight-lifting)>
Agree, also works in reducing bodyfat percentage. Too much aerobics will negate any mass gains, however. Dont do so much that you cant recover from your workouts.
<6) Work your abs atleast every other day, maybe everyday. (I think they can take it unlike other muscle groups, but not sure) Another thing about abs. It takes a long time to get a six or eight pack. Going easy on the desserts and heavy on the fruits and vegies will help this by making your gains more visible.>
Agree and... Abs can take the daily work, your calves too. As above, fat determines how your abs look, but is also possible to have good abs that push fat into the shape of a six-pack (I know from personal exoperience), but it still doesnt look "right".
<Well that is just my gleanings. I'm no expert but I played HS football for 4 years, HS wrestling for 3 years, and did a year of Marine Corp ROTC so I've had some physical training.>
In PT, most of the experts are not correct for more than a couple of years, since we learn frequently that what we thought was the right thing isnt. Same for dieting.
<1) Stay with it. The guys you see in the gym who are ripped to pieces are the ones who workout everyday or every other day, week in and week out, and month after month.>
Agree... Even if you have setbacks, just come back to working out.
<2) Like joecool222111 said, repetition is the key to definition (which is what I assume you want)>
Disagree, definition is determined by body fat levels. You either have muscle or you dont, the amount of fat covering it determines "definition". Reps mostly determine strength gains and what muscle fibers get the most effect from the work. Most people do really well in the 3 sets of 8 - 12 reps range, most people, that means it isnt true for everybody.
<3) Don't be embarrassed or discouraged if you lift less then everybody else in the gym. Concentrate on doing what YOU can do and doing it RIGHT. Forget about the guys throwing up 300+ on bench.>
Agree, great advice on doing it right. Improperly doing an exercise is a the sure way to get injured. Dont compare yourself to gym regulars, always look at your own progress for comparisons.
<4) Stay away from supplimants. Yes, you will see huge gains in strength from them but some of all those calories are undoublably going to end up as fat. You will also become dependent on them and they overwork your kidneys (I think that's what my sister said, she's a nutrition major)>
Some disagreement, in a perfect world you would have a perfect diet and not be missing nutrients. In reality, supplements will probably be needed in some form, either as simple vitamins or in protein supplementation. Figuring out what you need is often not very easy. In body building, when you eat is as important as what you eat, lots of small meals is the key.
<5) Do aerobic exercises also. I had the most energy and best physique of my life when I was running 3-miles a day three times and week and doing pullups while in ROTC. (Virtually no weight-lifting)>
Agree, also works in reducing bodyfat percentage. Too much aerobics will negate any mass gains, however. Dont do so much that you cant recover from your workouts.
<6) Work your abs atleast every other day, maybe everyday. (I think they can take it unlike other muscle groups, but not sure) Another thing about abs. It takes a long time to get a six or eight pack. Going easy on the desserts and heavy on the fruits and vegies will help this by making your gains more visible.>
Agree and... Abs can take the daily work, your calves too. As above, fat determines how your abs look, but is also possible to have good abs that push fat into the shape of a six-pack (I know from personal exoperience), but it still doesnt look "right".
<Well that is just my gleanings. I'm no expert but I played HS football for 4 years, HS wrestling for 3 years, and did a year of Marine Corp ROTC so I've had some physical training.>
In PT, most of the experts are not correct for more than a couple of years, since we learn frequently that what we thought was the right thing isnt. Same for dieting.
MrChicken: you are right about the "definition is determined by body fat levels". It is true that if you have fat covering your muscles then your not going to be well defined. I did not state my meaning very well. What I have always undestood is that high reps, lower weight will make your muscles harder, more stritated(I think that's the word) than more weight, low reps. So if you don't have the fat covering your muscles, high reps can be beneficial to your physique. But that's just what I have always understood. Any thoughts.
look here
These guys stress things that are pretty much common sense.
Lift hard maximum 2 times per week. Yes, only 2 times. You only grow in between workouts. (That's why they call it the recovery phase!)
Eat a lot of healty food, not junk.
Get a lot of sleep.
In your spare time, (vs. other workout routines), you can have a life.
Don't believe it works? Click on Herk's log on the left.
edit for spelling
These guys stress things that are pretty much common sense.
Lift hard maximum 2 times per week. Yes, only 2 times. You only grow in between workouts. (That's why they call it the recovery phase!)
Eat a lot of healty food, not junk.
Get a lot of sleep.
In your spare time, (vs. other workout routines), you can have a life.
Don't believe it works? Click on Herk's log on the left.
edit for spelling
StageLeft
No Lifer
Like Mr. Chicken I don't believe in the myth of toning. People define "tone" as having a nice muscular appearance right? There are three, and only three factors that come into play:
1) Shape of muscle
2) body fat levels
3) muscular size
If you have two people who have the same bodyfat, and their muscles are shaped similarly (by genetics or through the actual different excercises they do), the person with the greater muscular development (size) will look more "toned".
If you want to look toned you want your muscles to stick out more. This can be done by either increases muscular size or decreasing fat percentage. As long as you are working any given muscle group evenly (adequate number of different excercises) this is all that comes into play. Other than size and shape (as said, determined by excercises used), you cannot have muscles look different based purely on the number of reps (unless by different you mean smaller!). Weight bearing excercise should be done in a fairly low or medium rep range so as to build the most muscle possible...you may want some added endurance and higher reps may help that but in terms of appearance and a "toned" look you want as much muscle as you can get and as little bodyfat, so aim to build muscle size (while maintaining decent shape) instead of a "toned" muscle...because what in heck is that anyway?!
Some people who have not worked out much say "But I don't want to get big!!" These people fail to realize that the "big" muscle-hulks in the gym are the result of years of dedication and training. Muscle never came on to a person faster than they wanted 🙂 If a person thinks they have adequate muscle but want to get more "toned", well just decrease body-fat and don't bother with the weights.
1) Shape of muscle
2) body fat levels
3) muscular size
If you have two people who have the same bodyfat, and their muscles are shaped similarly (by genetics or through the actual different excercises they do), the person with the greater muscular development (size) will look more "toned".
If you want to look toned you want your muscles to stick out more. This can be done by either increases muscular size or decreasing fat percentage. As long as you are working any given muscle group evenly (adequate number of different excercises) this is all that comes into play. Other than size and shape (as said, determined by excercises used), you cannot have muscles look different based purely on the number of reps (unless by different you mean smaller!). Weight bearing excercise should be done in a fairly low or medium rep range so as to build the most muscle possible...you may want some added endurance and higher reps may help that but in terms of appearance and a "toned" look you want as much muscle as you can get and as little bodyfat, so aim to build muscle size (while maintaining decent shape) instead of a "toned" muscle...because what in heck is that anyway?!
Some people who have not worked out much say "But I don't want to get big!!" These people fail to realize that the "big" muscle-hulks in the gym are the result of years of dedication and training. Muscle never came on to a person faster than they wanted 🙂 If a person thinks they have adequate muscle but want to get more "toned", well just decrease body-fat and don't bother with the weights.
Angrymarshmello
Lifer
<< Lift hard maximum 2 times per week. Yes, only 2 times. You only grow in between workouts. >>
You cant effectively work one body part per week in two workouts. 3 is ideal, some people do 4. I have yet to see anyone go to the gym only 2 days a week. A MWF split spreads out your workouts a little better and still gives you downtime to grow.
You didn't look at the website, did you? :frown:
You also don't seem to understand me. You work your whole body 2 times per week. No split stuff. See this page
Yes, he lifts 2 times per week and no more. See the picture of him at the top? He's doing a partial deadlift with 952 lbs. He's lifted 2 times per week for many years and I can show you other guys who train pretty much the same way.
You also don't seem to understand me. You work your whole body 2 times per week. No split stuff. See this page
Yes, he lifts 2 times per week and no more. See the picture of him at the top? He's doing a partial deadlift with 952 lbs. He's lifted 2 times per week for many years and I can show you other guys who train pretty much the same way.
Angrymarshmello
Lifer
Ok I see what you mean but most people split their workouts. I can show you plenty of guys who do a 3-4 day split. Most people don't train for 33 years just so they can deadlift 952 lbs.
I forgot a few other tips.
Your workouts shouldn't last more than an hour, and in fact maybe they should be shorter. They should be very intense. Go from one exercise to another without much rest and you'll find that lifting weights can be much more aerobic than "aerobics".
Your workouts shouldn't last more than an hour, and in fact maybe they should be shorter. They should be very intense. Go from one exercise to another without much rest and you'll find that lifting weights can be much more aerobic than "aerobics".
Most people don't train for 33 years just so they can deadlift 952 lbs.
Yeah, you are correct. Most people train for months or years and don't get any stronger or bigger or in better shape. After some initial gains, most people keep lifting the same weights, using the same exercises, week after week, year after year and they wonder why they don't see any gains. These are the same type of people who lift 4 days a week, but half the time they are checking out the opposite sex or talking. They really aren't working out as intensely as possible when they are in the gym, and they aren't working out intelligently.
Yeah, you are correct. Most people train for months or years and don't get any stronger or bigger or in better shape. After some initial gains, most people keep lifting the same weights, using the same exercises, week after week, year after year and they wonder why they don't see any gains. These are the same type of people who lift 4 days a week, but half the time they are checking out the opposite sex or talking. They really aren't working out as intensely as possible when they are in the gym, and they aren't working out intelligently.
StageLeft
No Lifer
raging bitch Places like cyberpump and mikementzer.com are increasingly seeing good results of weight lifting with less and less activity...
Personally I split my body into three workouts, so each muscle group gets 4-6 sets, once a week (assuming I did all three workouts that week).
It really depends on how much you can handle...when I started at 16 I did an upper/lower split, I worked out every damn day and each body part had only 48 hours to rest. This was far too much, over the years I've decreased sets and frequency and continued to gain. Hardgainers have to really really cut down the frequency and for them places like cyberpump preach good stuff. I seem to be working a body part now every 7-9 days and still have great results, because I know that in the past I was severely overtraining.
I do not have the energy to do an entire body workout twice a week - even if sets are really low, it would kill me though...I follow some of what cyberpump preaches just not all, I always thought they were a tad off the norm to really go at them full-on, but I've read mike mentzer's stuff as well (also preaches a very small volume of high intensity training) and he has some good points.
I'm 22 now and frankly wouldn't mind if I kept this level of muscle for the rest of my life...I really put some size on late teens, so I don't follow training very closely now in terms of the most up-to-date stuff. Maintenance is fine (although I do continue to gain with my current program when I do it consistently).
Personally I split my body into three workouts, so each muscle group gets 4-6 sets, once a week (assuming I did all three workouts that week).
It really depends on how much you can handle...when I started at 16 I did an upper/lower split, I worked out every damn day and each body part had only 48 hours to rest. This was far too much, over the years I've decreased sets and frequency and continued to gain. Hardgainers have to really really cut down the frequency and for them places like cyberpump preach good stuff. I seem to be working a body part now every 7-9 days and still have great results, because I know that in the past I was severely overtraining.
I do not have the energy to do an entire body workout twice a week - even if sets are really low, it would kill me though...I follow some of what cyberpump preaches just not all, I always thought they were a tad off the norm to really go at them full-on, but I've read mike mentzer's stuff as well (also preaches a very small volume of high intensity training) and he has some good points.
I'm 22 now and frankly wouldn't mind if I kept this level of muscle for the rest of my life...I really put some size on late teens, so I don't follow training very closely now in terms of the most up-to-date stuff. Maintenance is fine (although I do continue to gain with my current program when I do it consistently).
Nutcase99
Golden Member
Thanks guys! That helped me out alot now to start hitting the Gym 🙂 I'm not at all fat on the other hand I'm not skinny well some people think I am but I don't think I am. I can already bench my weight (125 lbs.) and I'm not worried about being Mr. Universe 😉 I'm doing this for me and I don't care what other people can and can't do.
Thanks yet again! 🙂
Thanks yet again! 🙂
kami
Lifer
here is my workout....it may not be perfect but it's working very good and that's all i care about...
Monday:
1. Squats (increase by a few pounds every couple weeks)
set 1: 10 reps
(very short break - 30 seconds maybe)
set 2: until failure
2. Rowing motion (bent forward, pulling the barbell up to your chest, keeping back straight)
-reps until failure
3. Dead Lifts
- 20 reps
4. Leg raises
- again, each leg until I just can't do anymore
5. Close-grip Upright rowing motion (raise barbell to chin while standing up)
-reps until failure
6. Sit ups until I just can't do anymore
Wednesday:
1. Straight arm pull-overs (breathing, not weight, is very important in this one)
two sets of 20 reps
2. Wide grip bench press
set 1: 10 reps
set 2: until failure (usually about 8)
3. Overhead barbell press
set 1: 8 reps
set 2: until failure (usually only about 6)...this is a hard exercise at a heavy weight
4. Upright rowing motion (raise barbell to chin), Wide grip
-reps until failure
5. Front lateral raise
-reps until failure
6. Sit ups, sit ups and more sit ups til I can't do anymore
Friday:
1. Close-grip bench press (works your triceps)
-set 1: 10 reps
-set 2: until failure...usually about 8
2. Barbell bicep curls
-two sets of 10 reps
3. Standing barbell triceps extension
-reps until failure
4. Concentration curls
-until failure
5. sit ups until failure again
so basically I try to concentrate on my legs and back on monday, my chest and shoulders on wednesday, and my arms on friday. I work on the abs on all three days.
it almost looks easy since it doesn't take up much time, but with the final rep of most of these exercises I am huffing and puffing like crazy, and always increasing the poundage...very slowly..like a pound every week or so.
it works damn good and I've never felt so healthy 🙂
good luck
edit: i should also mention that I do all of this in my own home...who needs a gym when you have a bench and some weights? i sure don't and this is working!
Monday:
1. Squats (increase by a few pounds every couple weeks)
set 1: 10 reps
(very short break - 30 seconds maybe)
set 2: until failure
2. Rowing motion (bent forward, pulling the barbell up to your chest, keeping back straight)
-reps until failure
3. Dead Lifts
- 20 reps
4. Leg raises
- again, each leg until I just can't do anymore
5. Close-grip Upright rowing motion (raise barbell to chin while standing up)
-reps until failure
6. Sit ups until I just can't do anymore
Wednesday:
1. Straight arm pull-overs (breathing, not weight, is very important in this one)
two sets of 20 reps
2. Wide grip bench press
set 1: 10 reps
set 2: until failure (usually about 8)
3. Overhead barbell press
set 1: 8 reps
set 2: until failure (usually only about 6)...this is a hard exercise at a heavy weight
4. Upright rowing motion (raise barbell to chin), Wide grip
-reps until failure
5. Front lateral raise
-reps until failure
6. Sit ups, sit ups and more sit ups til I can't do anymore
Friday:
1. Close-grip bench press (works your triceps)
-set 1: 10 reps
-set 2: until failure...usually about 8
2. Barbell bicep curls
-two sets of 10 reps
3. Standing barbell triceps extension
-reps until failure
4. Concentration curls
-until failure
5. sit ups until failure again
so basically I try to concentrate on my legs and back on monday, my chest and shoulders on wednesday, and my arms on friday. I work on the abs on all three days.
it almost looks easy since it doesn't take up much time, but with the final rep of most of these exercises I am huffing and puffing like crazy, and always increasing the poundage...very slowly..like a pound every week or so.
it works damn good and I've never felt so healthy 🙂
good luck
edit: i should also mention that I do all of this in my own home...who needs a gym when you have a bench and some weights? i sure don't and this is working!
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