Hello all, I was thinking about getting a small boat, 14-17 foot range as they get cheap around here this time of year. Problem is I lack a proper tow vehicle for one, today at a ramp I saw someone putting in a 18' with a 2000 gran prix so I talked to him for a bit, he said he only lives 1.5 miles from the ramp and wouldn't think about driving any distance with this setup. His boat was 3200 lbs, my car is similar in weight and drivetrain (3400lbs/3.5 V6) and it's only rated to tow 1000lbs. Since the ramp near me is only 1/3 mi. away could I "cheat" on this deal or is the risk of tranny/frame failure not worth it. Advise/opinions much appreciated..
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Boat tow question..
- Thread starter BUTCH1
- Start date
boomerang
Lifer
Hmm, the potential is there for close to twice the rated capacity. I don't know if the 1K tow rating applies with the car fully loaded. Notwithstanding the transmission, I'd be more concerned with the vehicle itself. Unibody cars don't lend themselves to towing big loads. The hitch would handle it, but the hitch has to be fastened to the car. There is no frame.
I'm out into territory where I'm not in the slightest well versed. I realize it's a short distance, but if you look at it strictly from the perspective of the vehicle being rated for 1K and the boat and trailer being over that, it's not good.
Getting it there and putting in the water is one thing. Pulling it out is another.
I don't know and I'm man enough to admit it. If it were me, I wouldn't.
I'm out into territory where I'm not in the slightest well versed. I realize it's a short distance, but if you look at it strictly from the perspective of the vehicle being rated for 1K and the boat and trailer being over that, it's not good.
Getting it there and putting in the water is one thing. Pulling it out is another.
I don't know and I'm man enough to admit it. If it were me, I wouldn't.
seemingly random
Diamond Member
I wouldn't do it.
Depending on the trailer tongue weight, special adjustable rear shocks might be necessary. The angle of the ramp, how wet it is and the surface type matter a lot if the tow vehicle doesn't have 4 wheel drive (w/low). The condition of the vehicle's drive tires, drive train ratio, transmission and maybe even the engine if it's old and tired, matter. Front wheel drive is a negative pulling up a ramp as the center of gravity shifts to the non-drive wheels.
There are some ramps/marina's that launch boats for clients. You might find one of these and tow the boat there and let them use their appropriate equipment to launch. Better yet, you could just keep the boat there on the trailer.
Boat weight is displayed on the plaque that states the maximum # of persons allowed. This weight is the dry weight. It doesn't account for gas, portable gas tank, water, cooler, other stuff or motor if it's setup for an outboard.
Outboard weight is displayed on a plaque under the cover.
Trailer weight is displayed on a plaque that states the maximum boat weight it can handle somewhere on the trailer. It probably doesn't account for a spare tire.
The most accurate weight reading will be from a truck stop weigh station. Make sure the boat has all the 'stuff' in it that it'll usually have.
Depending on the trailer tongue weight, special adjustable rear shocks might be necessary. The angle of the ramp, how wet it is and the surface type matter a lot if the tow vehicle doesn't have 4 wheel drive (w/low). The condition of the vehicle's drive tires, drive train ratio, transmission and maybe even the engine if it's old and tired, matter. Front wheel drive is a negative pulling up a ramp as the center of gravity shifts to the non-drive wheels.
There are some ramps/marina's that launch boats for clients. You might find one of these and tow the boat there and let them use their appropriate equipment to launch. Better yet, you could just keep the boat there on the trailer.
Boat weight is displayed on the plaque that states the maximum # of persons allowed. This weight is the dry weight. It doesn't account for gas, portable gas tank, water, cooler, other stuff or motor if it's setup for an outboard.
Outboard weight is displayed on a plaque under the cover.
Trailer weight is displayed on a plaque that states the maximum boat weight it can handle somewhere on the trailer. It probably doesn't account for a spare tire.
The most accurate weight reading will be from a truck stop weigh station. Make sure the boat has all the 'stuff' in it that it'll usually have.
JoLLyRoGer
Diamond Member
There are several things you need to look at.
One, what is the GVWR of your vehicle? This is the gross vehicle weight rating and it is the maximum weight your vehicle can carry including you, fuel, your friends, luggage, and a set of ski's strapped to the roof.
Two, what is the GCWR of your vehicle? This is your gross combined vehicle weight rating and is the maximum your vehicle PLUS trailer can weigh.
Three, what is the overall tounge weight of the trailered vehicle (100-300lbs?). This counts against your GVWR which will reduce the ammount of weight your vehicle can two because it cuts into your GCWR also.... Think of it like this. If your car weighs 3200 curb weight with a GVWR of 4000 and a GCWR of 6000.
You have to take 3200 + yourself + your friends + your gear and subtract that from 4000 (GVWR). What's left is the max tounge weight your car can support. Assuming you max out your GVWR (not recommended BTW, I'd only go about 80%) that leaves 2000 pounds actual towing capacity IRREGARDLESS of what your hitch reciever is rated for!!.
Now, there are other ways to cheat and remember this is all hypothetical. Now, let's say you and your friends and your stuff all weigh in at 3850 (we'll continue to use 4000 GVWR as an example). and your boat + trailer is only 1000. This brings you up to 4850 GCWR which is well within your vehicle limits BUT, BUT, BUT, you need to support 300 pounds of the trailer weight on the tongue! Now you have a problem because tongue weight counts DIRECTLY againtst your GVWR (not the same as GCWR).
The way around this is with a load equalizing hitch that uses equalizer bars and snap-up bracketry to take weight off the tongue and distribute it between the tow vehicle and the trailer. Just something to thing about if you run into this situation.
Finally, how are you going to STOP all this extra weight? If you're towing more than a couple thousand pounds (especially in a light weight car). You're likely going to need an electronic brake controller for actuating electric trailer brakes. This is gonna require heavy duty wiring and a special 7 blade trailer connector.
The most important thing is under any circumstance, DO NOT exceed the manufacturer's ratings for GVWR and GCWR unless you want to be a rolling road-hazard.
On the other hand, a good used mid'80s, early 90's F-150 can be had for dirt cheap if you do some digging and will solve all your problems in one fell swoop. You'll be able gaurenteed to have enought torque to yank that boat back OUT of the water AND if you're only going 1 or two miles back and forth to the boat ramp then the shitty gas mileage should't really matter too much (plus everybody need at least one truck sitting around for doing 'truck stuff').
Probably haven't helped as much as I've confused the issue. Just want to make sure you look before you leap.
JR..
One, what is the GVWR of your vehicle? This is the gross vehicle weight rating and it is the maximum weight your vehicle can carry including you, fuel, your friends, luggage, and a set of ski's strapped to the roof.
Two, what is the GCWR of your vehicle? This is your gross combined vehicle weight rating and is the maximum your vehicle PLUS trailer can weigh.
Three, what is the overall tounge weight of the trailered vehicle (100-300lbs?). This counts against your GVWR which will reduce the ammount of weight your vehicle can two because it cuts into your GCWR also.... Think of it like this. If your car weighs 3200 curb weight with a GVWR of 4000 and a GCWR of 6000.
You have to take 3200 + yourself + your friends + your gear and subtract that from 4000 (GVWR). What's left is the max tounge weight your car can support. Assuming you max out your GVWR (not recommended BTW, I'd only go about 80%) that leaves 2000 pounds actual towing capacity IRREGARDLESS of what your hitch reciever is rated for!!.
Now, there are other ways to cheat and remember this is all hypothetical. Now, let's say you and your friends and your stuff all weigh in at 3850 (we'll continue to use 4000 GVWR as an example). and your boat + trailer is only 1000. This brings you up to 4850 GCWR which is well within your vehicle limits BUT, BUT, BUT, you need to support 300 pounds of the trailer weight on the tongue! Now you have a problem because tongue weight counts DIRECTLY againtst your GVWR (not the same as GCWR).
The way around this is with a load equalizing hitch that uses equalizer bars and snap-up bracketry to take weight off the tongue and distribute it between the tow vehicle and the trailer. Just something to thing about if you run into this situation.
Finally, how are you going to STOP all this extra weight? If you're towing more than a couple thousand pounds (especially in a light weight car). You're likely going to need an electronic brake controller for actuating electric trailer brakes. This is gonna require heavy duty wiring and a special 7 blade trailer connector.
The most important thing is under any circumstance, DO NOT exceed the manufacturer's ratings for GVWR and GCWR unless you want to be a rolling road-hazard.
On the other hand, a good used mid'80s, early 90's F-150 can be had for dirt cheap if you do some digging and will solve all your problems in one fell swoop. You'll be able gaurenteed to have enought torque to yank that boat back OUT of the water AND if you're only going 1 or two miles back and forth to the boat ramp then the shitty gas mileage should't really matter too much (plus everybody need at least one truck sitting around for doing 'truck stuff').
Probably haven't helped as much as I've confused the issue. Just want to make sure you look before you leap.
JR..
waffleironhead
Diamond Member
Just go for it,the safety ratings are for crusing at highway sppeds and for hitting bumps, 1/3 mile away means you can go slow and easy and avoid unnecessary jars to the vehicle.
seemingly random
Diamond Member
Or you could just move the boat back on the trailer. It's very unsafe to go negative for any kind of distance trailering, though. I believe the rule of thumb for tongue weight is 10% (up to 1000 lbs) of boat weight. You can go lower than this for very short, low-speed distances but I wouldn't go less than 50-100 lbs.
Surge brakes are the way to go. Think about it - electric brakes submerged in water...
This is the best solution, a 4x4, as long as it has good brakes while it's running and some braking ability if it stalls while on the ramp. It's a bitch fishing a trailer out of a lake or river. Laugh as some might, I've seen it several times.
Well thanks for all the answers so far, the vehicle in question is an 05 Malibu LT 4 spd. auto, top speed to the ramp won't exceed 20mph so I'm not concerned so much about braking, more about pulling out. Dude I talked with today says he has no problems and his boat is an 18 footer@ 3200lbs..
JoLLyRoGer
Diamond Member
True, hadn't really considered that. Most of my towing experience is with travel-trailers, flat beds, and car dolly's. (Not much water in AZ, so never owned a boat or had to tow one.)
seemingly random
Diamond Member
Yeah, I have a 5 ton, dual axle flat bed that has electric brakes on both axles for my tractor. It's setup like you described plus has a controller in the vehicle that can be dialed to the current load for desired braking power. The setting for a 6-7k load will cause the tires to lockup with no load.
Umm...
Lake Mead, LakeHavasu, Lake Powell, Roosevelt Lake, among others.
You obviously are not a boater. No big deal - just be careful making random statements.
Arizona has some of neatest boating lakes in the country - as long as one isn't looking for a beach.
radioouman
Diamond Member
I'll give you the two stories from friends that I am familiar with and then I'll give you my opinion about this:
One of my friends own a 17 foot, high performance boat and pulled it with a Grand Am that had a turbo 4-cylinder. I don't know the weight. He said that he only had two problems with it: When he pulled the boat out of the water, the suction of the boat hull in the water was difficult to overcome. And the second problem is that he didn't have much traction being front wheel drive, and sometimes he would have to ask people to put weight on the front of the car (by leaning on it) in order to have enough traction to pull the boat out. This car had a manual transmission.
Another friend of mine told me that his Dad pulled an 18 foot bow rider from his lake house to the lake with a first generation Chrysler Sebring convertible (2.5 liter V6, auto). That car was rated to pull 2500 lbs. (!!)
I have a 19 foot Bayliner that weighs 2100 lbs dry, not including the trailer. Where I live, some of the boat ramps are really steep and I would not feel comfortable trying to pull a boat out of the water with front wheel drive. For a while, I had a 600 lbs Seadoo (not including trailer) that I pulled with a 2000 Saturn SW2. I didn't have any problems with it, but I would be concerned with something much heavier. I would think that you might lose your tow vehicle in the water.
For me, I ended up buying a cheap mid-90s Dodge Dakota 4x4 and it took care of all of my towing needs nicely. No reason to destroy a transmission out of a new car when an older truck costs the same amount as the transmission in your newer car.
One of my friends own a 17 foot, high performance boat and pulled it with a Grand Am that had a turbo 4-cylinder. I don't know the weight. He said that he only had two problems with it: When he pulled the boat out of the water, the suction of the boat hull in the water was difficult to overcome. And the second problem is that he didn't have much traction being front wheel drive, and sometimes he would have to ask people to put weight on the front of the car (by leaning on it) in order to have enough traction to pull the boat out. This car had a manual transmission.
Another friend of mine told me that his Dad pulled an 18 foot bow rider from his lake house to the lake with a first generation Chrysler Sebring convertible (2.5 liter V6, auto). That car was rated to pull 2500 lbs. (!!)
I have a 19 foot Bayliner that weighs 2100 lbs dry, not including the trailer. Where I live, some of the boat ramps are really steep and I would not feel comfortable trying to pull a boat out of the water with front wheel drive. For a while, I had a 600 lbs Seadoo (not including trailer) that I pulled with a 2000 Saturn SW2. I didn't have any problems with it, but I would be concerned with something much heavier. I would think that you might lose your tow vehicle in the water.
For me, I ended up buying a cheap mid-90s Dodge Dakota 4x4 and it took care of all of my towing needs nicely. No reason to destroy a transmission out of a new car when an older truck costs the same amount as the transmission in your newer car.
The 3.5 cast-iron V6 is quite a bit heavier than a 4 so I should be better off in that regard. I'll have to drive down to the ramp I'll be using and gauge how steep it is. The used beater truck is a good idea except that around here in Redneck riviera aka Daytona any truck that can move under it's own power is worth $1500. I am mechanically inclined but would rather spend time fishing than repairing an old truck and the price range of boats I will be looking at will include some fix-er-uppers so i might need to devote some time there too..
radioouman
Diamond Member
Yep. My "beater" of a truck cost me about $3000. But very well worth it in my opinion. Lake water stinks and I'd rather put all of my wet gear in the bed of a pickup than the trunk of a car.
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