BMW sales down 25% and profits down 63%

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: woodie1
Another vote for the 335i. If the size is right you cannot go wrong.

For a price of an optioned new 335i, I'll take the 2006 M5. ~$100k car for <$50k in less than 3 years.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: woodie1
Another vote for the 335i. If the size is right you cannot go wrong.

For a price of an optioned new 335i, I'll take the 2006 M5. ~$100k car for <$50k in less than 3 years.

You'll know why it depreciates that way the first time something serious goes wrong. There's a reason BMW doesn't have certified pre-owned M5s (and I say that as the delighted owner of a CPO BMW) - that car has one of the most electronically and mechanically complex drivetrains ever installed in a street car. A 3-year-old M5 has a year or less of warranty left, and may God help you once it goes out of warranty.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: woodie1
Another vote for the 335i. If the size is right you cannot go wrong.

I used to think the same way until I read all the issues with the fuel pump, electrical, and various other ailments. The 335i is not very reliable.

 

[moks78]

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
I remember last year at the BMW dealer and the arrogance with these people is through the roof. I'm glad these fuckers are suffering.

So true...wifey got an Acura instead.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: bozack
[

for the performance set, so long as it is fun and handles well then it is cool with them

Personally I associate more with the latter however I can see why those who care more about status would feel the way they do.

Well for me it's just because I love the way BMW's drive and I like the design of the car. I don't really care about status and all that. Plus it's sort of a reward for myself for completing the basic sciences portion of med school (first 2 yrs). I'll look into the 335i, the extra power does seem tempting so I might just get a used 335i instead of a new 328i. Maybe I could get BMW to negotiate now that their sales and profit have plummeted.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: woodie1
Another vote for the 335i. If the size is right you cannot go wrong.

I used to think the same way until I read all the issues with the fuel pump, electrical, and various other ailments. The 335i is not very reliable.

I've never had a problem getting repairs under warranty and a loaner to boot. They have a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty and the op is talking new. Then there is always CPO.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: woodie1
Another vote for the 335i. If the size is right you cannot go wrong.

I used to think the same way until I read all the issues with the fuel pump, electrical, and various other ailments. The 335i is not very reliable.

That's part of the reason I went with a CPO 2006 330i. In some ways I think it's the most desirable E90 from a price/performance/reliability standpoint (and I betcha it cost more for BMW to manufacture than the 335i because of its exotic magnesium block). OTOH I would probably trade it even-up for a 335i and brave the risks associated with it if the opportunity presented itself.

 

[makken]

Originally posted by: Polish3d
Don't buy a 3 series BMW IMO. I won't buy one until I can afford a 5 series at least. If you're buying a BMW, it's a little lame IMO to buy the cheapest one possible. Owning a BWM is supposed to indicate a certain success level, not a "stretched-my-credit-card-to-buy-the-cheapest-possible"

Unless you're just buying it for performance only and not status of course

Terrible advice.
A top end 3'er also commands a lot more respect than a bottom of the barrel, barebones 525i.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
You're an idiot. The 3 series is BMW's signature model. A 128i with vinyl is, IMO, more of a "true" BMW than a loaded 760li, in that it is a highly entertaining, precise handling, trackable car. IMO the 335i is, the most desirable car among current BMWs, with the possible exception of the M3. BMW is not Mercedes or Lexus - bigger is not better when it comes to BMWs.

I don't typically agree with Don, and I won't entirely in this case either, however there are two differnt consumers when it comes to BMW, those who look to status (the majority) and those who want performance (the minority)...

For the status set, the lower ranks of the line are what they turn their noses up at...bmw = wealthy and thus those who are buying the cheapo models are just living beyond their means...

for the performance set, so long as it is fun and handles well then it is cool with them

Personally I associate more with the latter however I can see why those who care more about status would feel the way they do.

I still think it's a stupid sentiment. The 3 series is, IMO, the sweet spot of size for a daily driver - it's actually essentially the same size as an E39 5 series. It is also in no way lacking in content relative to a 5 series - the two are identically equipped - and it looks better. BMW essentially invented the sport sedan with the 2002, and it's the 3 series, not any of the larger cars, that is its spiritual successor. A sport-package equipped 3 series will outhandle essentially anything short of a dedicated sports car, yet it's a practical, comfy, even luxurious little car. Anyone who would refrain from buying one because there are costlier BMWs is just being a status-obsessed twat with no self esteem.

 

[theeedude]

Hopefully BMW gets a clue and starts offering 1 series models starting at about 5K under 3 series (~$25K or so).
$30K compacts with vinyl seats just aren't going to cut it in this economy.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Hopefully BMW gets a clue and starts offering 1 series models starting at about 5K under 3 series (~$25K or so).
$30K compacts with vinyl seats just aren't going to cut it in this economy.

Agreed there needs to be a larger price disparity. Most people seem to agree that the 1 series is a great driver (Clarkson says the 135i is the best current BMW), but IMO they're ugly, and too close in price and weight to the very pretty 3 series coupes to make for a very compelling package.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: woodie1
Another vote for the 335i. If the size is right you cannot go wrong.

I used to think the same way until I read all the issues with the fuel pump, electrical, and various other ailments. The 335i is not very reliable.

I've never had a problem getting repairs under warranty and a loaner to boot. They have a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty and the op is talking new. Then there is always CPO.

When I buy a new car, I kind of want it not to break down.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: woodie1
Another vote for the 335i. If the size is right you cannot go wrong.

I used to think the same way until I read all the issues with the fuel pump, electrical, and various other ailments. The 335i is not very reliable.

I've never had a problem getting repairs under warranty and a loaner to boot. They have a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty and the op is talking new. Then there is always CPO.

When I buy a new car, I kind of want it not to break down.

Duh!

 

[Stoneburner]

Since this thread is made: BMW do something about those damn kidney grilles. They look like shit on your "Sports Activity Vehicles."

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: makken

Originally posted by: Polish3d
Don't buy a 3 series BMW IMO. I won't buy one until I can afford a 5 series at least. If you're buying a BMW, it's a little lame IMO to buy the cheapest one possible. Owning a BWM is supposed to indicate a certain success level, not a "stretched-my-credit-card-to-buy-the-cheapest-possible"

Unless you're just buying it for performance only and not status of course

Terrible advice.
A top end 3'er also commands a lot more respect than a bottom of the barrel, barebones 525i.

And there is 90% of BMW owners right there. Who cares if the cars work better, it does not bring the "respect" of the other line options.


Guess I am not BMW type, I don't care what others think of my car.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: makken

Originally posted by: Polish3d
Don't buy a 3 series BMW IMO. I won't buy one until I can afford a 5 series at least. If you're buying a BMW, it's a little lame IMO to buy the cheapest one possible. Owning a BWM is supposed to indicate a certain success level, not a "stretched-my-credit-card-to-buy-the-cheapest-possible"

Unless you're just buying it for performance only and not status of course

Terrible advice.
A top end 3'er also commands a lot more respect than a bottom of the barrel, barebones 525i.

And there is 90% of BMW owners right there. Who cares if the cars work better, it does not bring the "respect" of the other line options.


Guess I am not BMW type, I don't care what others think of my car.

It's funny that somebody calling themselves "polished" can be so utterly dull, uncouth, and rough.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: Polish3d
Don't buy a 3 series BMW IMO. I won't buy one until I can afford a 5 series at least. If you're buying a BMW, it's a little lame IMO to buy the cheapest one possible. Owning a BWM is supposed to indicate a certain success level, not a "stretched-my-credit-card-to-buy-the-cheapest-possible"

Unless you're just buying it for performance only and not status of course

You're an idiot. The 3 series is BMW's signature model. A 128i with vinyl is, IMO, more of a "true" BMW than a loaded 760li, in that it is a highly entertaining, precise handling, trackable car. IMO the 335i is, the most desirable car among current BMWs, with the possible exception of the M3. BMW is not Mercedes or Lexus - bigger is not better when it comes to BMWs.

What I don't understand is why BMW drivers are among the most aggressive drivers on the highways?

Passing on the right hand side? BMW.
Speeding in a school zone? BMW.
Driving with cellphone in hand? BMW.
Failure to stop at a stop sign? BMW.
Tailgating? BMW.

Need I go on?

I think it's the yuppified sense of self-importance of the BMW owner. But, I defer to your expertise.

Porsche drivers, on the other hand, are civilized.

Just say no to Bavarian Motor Jerks.

-Robert

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: chess9

What I don't understand is why BMW drivers are among the most aggressive drivers on the highways?

Passing on the right hand side? BMW.
Speeding in a school zone? BMW.
Driving with cellphone in hand? BMW.
Failure to stop at a stop sign? BMW.
Tailgating? BMW.

Need I go on?

I think it's the yuppified sense of self-importance of the BMW owner. But, I defer to your expertise.

Porsche drivers, on the other hand, are civilized.

Just say no to Bavarian Motor Jerks.

-Robert

Can't really speak to that. I actually go out of my way to let people in in traffic and otherwise behave courteously to help dispel the BMW-driver-as-asshole preconception.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: Polish3d
Don't buy a 3 series BMW IMO. I won't buy one until I can afford a 5 series at least. If you're buying a BMW, it's a little lame IMO to buy the cheapest one possible. Owning a BWM is supposed to indicate a certain success level, not a "stretched-my-credit-card-to-buy-the-cheapest-possible"

Unless you're just buying it for performance only and not status of course

You're an idiot. The 3 series is BMW's signature model. A 128i with vinyl is, IMO, more of a "true" BMW than a loaded 760li, in that it is a highly entertaining, precise handling, trackable car. IMO the 335i is, the most desirable car among current BMWs, with the possible exception of the M3. BMW is not Mercedes or Lexus - bigger is not better when it comes to BMWs.

What I don't understand is why BMW drivers are among the most aggressive drivers on the highways?

Passing on the right hand side? BMW.
Speeding in a school zone? BMW.
Driving with cellphone in hand? BMW.
Failure to stop at a stop sign? BMW.
Tailgating? BMW.

Need I go on?

I think it's the yuppified sense of self-importance of the BMW owner. But, I defer to your expertise.

Porsche drivers, on the other hand, are civilized.

Just say no to Bavarian Motor Jerks.

-Robert

Thats because BMW's are meant to be driven like they were stolen. The harder you drive em the better they run. The 4.4 liter V8 in the old E34's & E39's was hard to kill.

I'm an old schooler and had a hard time with Bangles's new designs (E60, E90, E92 etc.). The chassis was much heavier with the bulky "high" body design. Although the E92 328, 335 was his best to date and I am thinking of adding one if the price is ripe for the pickins. In these tough times there should be some good new & certified pre-owned deals out there. There have been reports of electrical failures and a recall on some DME units on some E92 & E93's. For the most part people have had good engine reliability experiences with the twin turbo's. We shall see how they hold up long term. Wish they would stop with the run flat tires (complete junk). they were shot in about 10,000 miles on the wife's E90 330xi sedan. I swapped with non-rfts michelin pilot sports and its like a totally different car.

I have been driving these cars since my first purchase of a 325i coup back in 1989. It did become somewhat of a hobby/obsession with me. It's not about the "status" of the cars that pulled me in. BMW's are a drivers car. You feel more "attached" to the driving experience, so to speak, like no other car in my opinion. You will have to pry my 2003 E39 M5 from my cold dead hands. The car is a beast. Best "complete, well balanced" car I've ever owned & driven.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Another BMW hate thread. *yawn*

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Another BMW hate thread. *yawn*

I don't think they hate the car, it's the elitists buying them.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: Polish3d
Don't buy a 3 series BMW IMO. I won't buy one until I can afford a 5 series at least. If you're buying a BMW, it's a little lame IMO to buy the cheapest one possible. Owning a BWM is supposed to indicate a certain success level, not a "stretched-my-credit-card-to-buy-the-cheapest-possible"

Unless you're just buying it for performance only and not status of course

You're an idiot. The 3 series is BMW's signature model. A 128i with vinyl is, IMO, more of a "true" BMW than a loaded 760li, in that it is a highly entertaining, precise handling, trackable car. IMO the 335i is, the most desirable car among current BMWs, with the possible exception of the M3. BMW is not Mercedes or Lexus - bigger is not better when it comes to BMWs.

What I don't understand is why BMW drivers are among the most aggressive drivers on the highways?

Passing on the right hand side? BMW.
Speeding in a school zone? BMW.
Driving with cellphone in hand? BMW.
Failure to stop at a stop sign? BMW.
Tailgating? BMW.

Need I go on?

I think it's the yuppified sense of self-importance of the BMW owner. But, I defer to your expertise.

Porsche drivers, on the other hand, are civilized.

Just say no to Bavarian Motor Jerks.

-Robert

Thats because BMW's are meant to be driven like they were stolen. The harder you drive em the better they run. The 4.4 liter V8 in the old E34's & E39's was hard to kill.

I'm an old schooler and had a hard time with Bangles's new designs (E60, E90, E92 etc.). The chassis was much heavier with the bulky "high" body design. Although the E92 328, 335 was his best to date and I am thinking of adding one if the price is ripe for the pickins. In these tough times there should be some good new & certified pre-owned deals out there. There have been reports of electrical failures and a recall on some DME units on some E92 & E93's. For the most part people have had good engine reliability experiences with the twin turbo's. We shall see how they hold up long term. Wish they would stop with the run flat tires (complete junk). they were shot in about 10,000 miles on the wife's E90 330xi sedan. I swapped with non-rfts michelin pilot sports and its like a totally different car.

I have been driving these cars since my first purchase of a 325i coup back in 1989. It did become somewhat of a hobby/obsession with me. It's not about the "status" of the cars that pulled me in. BMW's are a drivers car. You feel more "attached" to the driving experience, so to speak, like no other car in my opinion. You will have to pry my 2003 E39 M5 from my cold dead hands. The car is a beast. Best "complete, well balanced" car I've ever owned & driven.

I had the 325i for awhile. It was a nice driving car, but too small for my frame. I couldn't get comfy in it. My Porsche 911, though about the same size, fit perfect.

But, I don't drive fast. I drive like I'm 90 years old and always have. I do not care for the high speed limits and higher actual driving speeds of most Americans. Very few of the males on the highway are capable of driving a sports car properly anyway. I was a high school and college scholarship athlete (tennis), with excellent hand/eye coordination and other physical skills, but I would not suppose I have the talent of a Schumacher and then try to prove it in traffic on public roads, which is exactly what most males are doing with their sports cars. How smart can that be?

-Robert

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
You're an idiot. The 3 series is BMW's signature model. A 128i with vinyl is, IMO, more of a "true" BMW than a loaded 760li, in that it is a highly entertaining, precise handling, trackable car. IMO the 335i is, the most desirable car among current BMWs, with the possible exception of the M3. BMW is not Mercedes or Lexus - bigger is not better when it comes to BMWs.

I don't typically agree with Don, and I won't entirely in this case either, however there are two differnt consumers when it comes to BMW, those who look to status (the majority) and those who want performance (the minority)...

For the status set, the lower ranks of the line are what they turn their noses up at...bmw = wealthy and thus those who are buying the cheapo models are just living beyond their means...

for the performance set, so long as it is fun and handles well then it is cool with them

Personally I associate more with the latter however I can see why those who care more about status would feel the way they do.

I still think it's a stupid sentiment. The 3 series is, IMO, the sweet spot of size for a daily driver - it's actually essentially the same size as an E39 5 series. It is also in no way lacking in content relative to a 5 series - the two are identically equipped - and it looks better. BMW essentially invented the sport sedan with the 2002, and it's the 3 series, not any of the larger cars, that is its spiritual successor. A sport-package equipped 3 series will outhandle essentially anything short of a dedicated sports car, yet it's a practical, comfy, even luxurious little car. Anyone who would refrain from buying one because there are costlier BMWs is just being a status-obsessed twat with no self esteem.

I accounted for the status/performance differential in my original post. Where I live and go to school, some people go into debt to buy the cheaper end BMW because it IS a status symbol. Your response was not to my point, which was that it's not a great idea to go (and probably go into debt) looking for cheap BMW 3-series as a way to own a status-symbol car. As I mentioned, if your aim is performance, that's something else

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: makken

Originally posted by: Polish3d
Don't buy a 3 series BMW IMO. I won't buy one until I can afford a 5 series at least. If you're buying a BMW, it's a little lame IMO to buy the cheapest one possible. Owning a BWM is supposed to indicate a certain success level, not a "stretched-my-credit-card-to-buy-the-cheapest-possible"

Unless you're just buying it for performance only and not status of course

Terrible advice.
A top end 3'er also commands a lot more respect than a bottom of the barrel, barebones 525i.

And there is 90% of BMW owners right there. Who cares if the cars work better, it does not bring the "respect" of the other line options.


Guess I am not BMW type, I don't care what others think of my car.

It's funny that somebody calling themselves "polished" can be so utterly dull, uncouth, and rough.

Actually it's a little ironic that you're lecturing about traits like "dull" and "uncouth" in the midst of an ad hominem. But I'm not big on petty ATOT arguments so this will be my last response to this boring type of back-and-forth

 

[thegimp03]

Anyone buying a car for cash right now has a lot of purchasing power. I think a lot of car lots are itching to make sales, pick the right salesman and you can probably get a great deal. If not, leave. Never make it look like you *need* the car.