BMW admits to fuel pump flaw

[sisq0kidd]

I'm not sure where the rest of you live, but here in Southern California, especially in South Pasadena on the 110, you need to floor it to even get on the freeway. Good luck waiting for a "safe" time to hop on. If your car is limping along at 25% throttle, you can pretty much guarantee you'll be stuck at the stop sign trying to get on the freeway for more than an hour.

I'm a relatively safe driver and follow the rules the best I can, but it's ridiculous to think that this isn't a safety issue.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yep, lots of places like that. If you are waiting for a very safe gap to turn or merge or pull out, you'll be waiting a damn long time. People in line behind you, waiting to make the same move, are going to want to kill you. Might as well take the bus.

 

[ShawnD1]

Yep, lots of places like that. If you are waiting for a very safe gap to turn or merge or pull out, you'll be waiting a damn long time. People in line behind you, waiting to make the same move, are going to want to kill you. Might as well take the bus.

When I retire, I'm going to drive around in rush hour traffic and do shit like this. Take 20 minutes to make a left turn because I won't go unless I have 5 solid seconds to get through the intersection 😀

 

[KIAman]

I'm not sure where the rest of you live, but here in Southern California, especially in South Pasadena on the 110, you need to floor it to even get on the freeway. Good luck waiting for a "safe" time to hop on. If your car is limping along at 25% throttle, you can pretty much guarantee you'll be stuck at the stop sign trying to get on the freeway for more than an hour.

I'm a relatively safe driver and follow the rules the best I can, but it's ridiculous to think that this isn't a safety issue.

So what you're saying is that there are no slow cars or minivans or trucks on the freeway where you live? 😛

I don't think anybody was saying it wasn't a safety issue, just the sensationalized "LIFE THREATENING OMG OMG OMG!!!!" thing isn't justified.

 

[sisq0kidd]

So what you're saying is that there are no slow cars or minivans or trucks on the freeway where you live? 😛

I don't think anybody was saying it wasn't a safety issue, just the sensationalized "LIFE THREATENING OMG OMG OMG!!!!" thing isn't justified.

It's probably hyperbole for most of us here, but I don't doubt for a second that there are legitimate concerns where people are indeed scared for their lives.

I think people in The Garage get a little shortsighted when it comes to the general populace and cars. It isn't out of the question for people to feel their life is in danger when they are on the road with fast moving cars and all of a sudden their car isn't working properly.

 

[KDKPSJ]

It's probably hyperbole for most of us here, but I don't doubt for a second that there are legitimate concerns where people are indeed scared for their lives.

I think people in The Garage get a little shortsighted when it comes to the general populace and cars. It isn't out of the question for people to feel their life is in danger when they are on the road with fast moving cars and all of a sudden their car isn't working properly.

I agree. Many people here over-estimate the ability (or under-estimate the stupidity) of general public. If everyone knows how to drive like people here, Toyota/Lexus pedal issue would have never been such a topic.

I mean, if you can overcome the sudden loss of power or unintended acceleration with your driving skill, that's great. But the Bimmer driver making a left turn right in front you or the Toyota driver right behind you may be the worst idiot of the world and may stop right in front of you or charge to you at 150 mph.

You must assume the person driving next to you is the most stupid idiot in the world. That's why people are so concern about defects --- especially the ones that affect the performance.

 

[Zenmervolt]

It isn't out of the question for people to feel their life is in danger when they are on the road with fast moving cars and all of a sudden their car isn't working properly.

It may not actually be out of the question for someone to be that stupid/inept, but it damn well should be.

The fact that the US gives out drivers licenses to anyone who can fog a mirror is a huge problem. I've long advocated that we should adopt a system substantially similar to Germany's where there's extensive training in car control and the associated costs are several thousand dollars.

The solution is not to eliminate all potential issues (which is impossible in any case) but to implement a driver training program that actually trains people as opposed to the current setup that is basically a rubber stamp with no practical value.

ZV

 

[LTC8K6]

we should adopt a system substantially similar to Germany's where there's extensive training in car control and the associated costs are several thousand dollars.

Then the poor couldn't drive. Or would the rest of us foot that bill too?

 

[sisq0kidd]

I'm all for higher standards and testing for drivers, but that doesn't address the concern whatsoever.

My mother's E-class has had tons of issues and one recent one was her losing power steering on the freeway. She pulled over because her car wasn't performing as it should and she was afraid of the unknown. How is she "stupid/inept" for being scared for her life when something is wrong with her 2 ton vehicle moving at 65+ mph while other 2 ton vehicles are moving at 65+ mph around her?

In the end it COULD be just a steering issue or a fuel pump issue or whatever issue you want, but that doesn't change the fact the being scared of the unknown is justifiable.

This place amazes me sometimes. We're talking about cars here, but yet a good portion are riding their high horses.

 

[SSSnail]

I'm not sure where the rest of you live, but here in Southern California, especially in South Pasadena on the 110, you need to floor it to even get on the freeway. Good luck waiting for a "safe" time to hop on. If your car is limping along at 25% throttle, you can pretty much guarantee you'll be stuck at the stop sign trying to get on the freeway for more than an hour.

I'm a relatively safe driver and follow the rules the best I can, but it's ridiculous to think that this isn't a safety issue.

Quit lying, just about anytime I get on that stupid freeway I'd have to wait for a gap in the almost stop-and-go traffic to get on.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I was in a car when the distributor cap exploded mid-turn.


Trust me, there was plenty of room. One person wasn't paying attention and almost creamed us. If this was happening to my daughter's car I probably wouldn't want her driving it either, considering how often it seems to be a problem.

 

[sisq0kidd]

Quit lying, just about anytime I get on that stupid freeway I'd have to wait for a gap in the almost stop-and-go traffic to get on.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize your commute was exactly the same as mine. So you head 110s around 8pm also huh?

 

[Zenmervolt]

My mother's E-class has had tons of issues and one recent one was her losing power steering on the freeway. She pulled over because her car wasn't performing as it should and she was afraid of the unknown. How is she "stupid/inept" for being scared for her life when something is wrong with her 2 ton vehicle moving at 65+ mph while other 2 ton vehicles are moving at 65+ mph around her?

1) At freeway speed most modern power steering systems provide little to no assist at all (that's how speed-sensitive power steering works; lots of assist at very low speeds and minimal to zero assist at freeway speeds).

2) I've driven a number of cars without power steering as well as a number of cars that have their power steering pumps disconnected. The difference is not nearly enough to objectively warrant pulling over. At most it's a minor annoyance in parking lot situations. On the freeway it's a complete and utter non-issue.

3) The fact that the situation was "unknown" for her perfectly demonstrates just where she actually was "stupid/inept". A properly educated driver knows what to expect in those situations and it's not "unknown". You're basically arguing that ignorance is a legitimate excuse and that's simply absurd.

The bottom line is that there are simply too many drivers who don't know jack shit about how their vehicles work or how to drive them in emergency situations. Driver training needs to be far more like pilot training. Pilots are required to practice emergency recovery as well as to demonstrate practical knowledge of how the mechanical systems on their aircraft work. Drivers should have substantially similar requirements.

The fact that we're granting licenses to people who have no friggin' clue what to do if they lose power steering or power brakes is ridiculous. 40 years ago most cars didn't have power assist for steering or brakes and no-one freaked out; a person who freaks out from a loss of power assist shouldn't have been granted a license in the first place.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Then the poor couldn't drive. Or would the rest of us foot that bill too?

Driving isn't a right. The "poor" (which is a term so nebulous as to be effectively null) in Germany and Great Britain seem to get along just fine despite the high costs of obtaining a driver's license in those countries.

ZV

 

[coxmaster]

Driver training needs to be far more like pilot training. Pilots are required to practice emergency recovery as well as to demonstrate practical knowledge of how the mechanical systems on their aircraft work. Drivers should have substantially similar requirements.

The fact that we're granting licenses to people who have no friggin' clue what to do if they lose power steering or power brakes is ridiculous. 40 years ago most cars didn't have power assist for steering or brakes and no-one freaked out; a person who freaks out from a loss of power assist shouldn't have been granted a license in the first place.

ZV

I cant believe I never thought of that :hmm: I think that is actually a good way to go about it. Driver training would likely get more expensive, but I'm pretty sure it would be worth the extra money

 

[DivideBYZero]

Driving isn't a right. The "poor" (which is a term so nebulous as to be effectively null) in Germany and Great Britain seem to get along just fine despite the high costs of obtaining a driver's license in those countries.

ZV

This.

Anyway, I agree with Z on the level of training. The tests we have in the UK are not easy, and you actually have to study to pass all three test stages.

On the subject of power loss and feeling "fear for you life", I'm going to go with " You need to expect the unexpected". Driving isn't a democratic event, whereby a total failure must pass all members vote before happening. Shit happens, and on the road it's 100x more likely than most think.

Real life scenarios I have dealt with in the past four years:

- On the highway a tyre deflates fast due to a burst event. You're doing 80Mph. You lose full control and speed in the outside lane. You have to cruise to the inside shoulder and stop without losing control. This is something that EVERY driver should be able to do safely.

- Your engine management light comes on and you lose the majority of power. You're on the highway and your throttle is limited, along with your maximum speed, now 50Mph. Again, this is nothing to get scared about, you just need to be aware of your surroundings and the road conditions to get home safely.

UK Highways are faster in general than US ones, so if I can manage to deal with these situations then no single driver in the US should have any trouble with it. Drive defensively and expect the unexpected.

 

[coxmaster]

This.


- You're engine management light comes on and you lose the majority of power. You're on the highway and your throttle is limited, along with your maximum speed, now 50Mph. Again, this is nothing to get scared about, you just need to be aware of your surroundings and the road conditions to get home safely.

I know people that would drive for a week without even noticing the check engine light.. Which is pathetic

 

[LTC8K6]

Driving isn't a right. The "poor" (which is a term so nebulous as to be effectively null) in Germany and Great Britain seem to get along just fine despite the high costs of obtaining a driver's license in those countries.

ZV

I agree, but you and I both know what would happen if it cost $2K to get a driver's license in the USA. We'd be deaf from the outcry from special interest groups, or you and I would be subsidizing licenses.

 

[jlee]

I know people that would drive for a week without even noticing the check engine light.. Which is pathetic

And then there's people like me who go nuts thinking about every odd little sound after working on a car..wondering if it was there before and had just gone unnoticed... 😛

 

[exar333]

I agree, but you and I both know what would happen if it cost $2K to get a driver's license in the USA. We'd be deaf from the outcry from special interest groups, or you and I would be subsidizing licenses.

Remember that more people rely on their cars to get to and from work (poor and wealthy alike). For many cities, there IS no public transportation options. I 100% agree in theory for better driver training, but implementing this in the US is another story.

 

[ShawnD1]

The fact that we're granting licenses to people who have no friggin' clue what to do if they lose power steering or power brakes is ridiculous. 40 years ago most cars didn't have power assist for steering or brakes and no-one freaked out; a person who freaks out from a loss of power assist shouldn't have been granted a license in the first place.

ZV

People shouldn't panic when things break for unknown reasons?

So if I'm flying a 2 engine jet airplane and the left engine dies, I should totally not panic or worry at all since there are lots of single engine planes that work just fine. When given the opportunity to land and figure out wtf is wrong with it, I should just keep flying and keep it real. D:


Biggest problem with driving tests in NA is that you pass based on how shitty you drive. Compare the following situations of reality vs driving test.
Test - drive half the speed limit
Reality - go at least the speed limit
Test - take a year to change lanes
Reality - stop fucking around and go already
Test - merge going half the speed limit so other people need to slow down to prevent hitting you
Reality - merge going 20 over the speed limit so you don't need to worry as much about traffic behind you (you can focus on the traffic ahead of you)

Fear mongering doesn't help either. Instead of stressing that the best driver should be the one driving, they stress that the most sober driver or the least tired driver should be driving. Of course that's true to some extent, but there are always exceptions. I've seen sober designated drivers run stop signs because they were talking to the drunk people in the back. I've also seen stoned drivers who would follow the rules perfectly and would never ever run a stop sign. Our priorities behind the wheel are completely messed up.

 

[sisq0kidd]

1) At freeway speed most modern power steering systems provide little to no assist at all (that's how speed-sensitive power steering works; lots of assist at very low speeds and minimal to zero assist at freeway speeds).

2) I've driven a number of cars without power steering as well as a number of cars that have their power steering pumps disconnected. The difference is not nearly enough to objectively warrant pulling over. At most it's a minor annoyance in parking lot situations. On the freeway it's a complete and utter non-issue.

3) The fact that the situation was "unknown" for her perfectly demonstrates just where she actually was "stupid/inept". A properly educated driver knows what to expect in those situations and it's not "unknown". You're basically arguing that ignorance is a legitimate excuse and that's simply absurd.

The bottom line is that there are simply too many drivers who don't know jack shit about how their vehicles work or how to drive them in emergency situations. Driver training needs to be far more like pilot training. Pilots are required to practice emergency recovery as well as to demonstrate practical knowledge of how the mechanical systems on their aircraft work. Drivers should have substantially similar requirements.

The fact that we're granting licenses to people who have no friggin' clue what to do if they lose power steering or power brakes is ridiculous. 40 years ago most cars didn't have power assist for steering or brakes and no-one freaked out; a person who freaks out from a loss of power assist shouldn't have been granted a license in the first place.

ZV

You're basing all of this on the assumption that people should automatically know what is wrong with their car when something goes wrong while driving it. Take the article in the OP for example. The car started to shake and rumble. So given this situation, a driver is to understand that their car is just having fuel pump issues and should not pull over but continue driving?

Please.

There are reasonable limits to what a person should know about cars in order to drive. I believe diagnosing car problems in real time is above and beyond the threshold of what a reasonable person should be able to do in order to drive. Pulling over because a car is having "problems" is more than understandable given the context of the situation.

Now, I understand where you're coming from in requiring people to be more informed about cars if they're taking it on the road. But calling people stupid and inept just because they're not as informed (but yet take appropriate actions when problems occur) is not only mean spirited, but extremely arrogant.

 

[DivideBYZero]

People shouldn't panic when things break for unknown reasons?

So if I'm flying a 2 engine jet airplane and the left engine dies, I should totally not panic or worry at all since there are lots of single engine planes that work just fine. When given the opportunity to land and figure out wtf is wrong with it, I should just keep flying and keep it real. D:

Clearly you have never been or known a Pilot. That is EXACTLY what they train for. Twin engine craft can and do fly with one engine in emergency situations. What they will do is find the nearest airport or safe place to land within the limits of the craft and land immediately, then figure out what's wrong later. If you flip out and lose cool in the pilots seat, everyone dies.

 

[DivideBYZero]

You're basing all of this on the assumption that people should automatically know what is wrong with their car when something goes wrong while driving it. Take the article in the OP for example. The car started to shake and rumble. So given this situation, a driver is to understand that their car is just having fuel pump issues and should not pull over but continue driving?

Please.

There are reasonable limits to what a person should know about cars in order to drive. I believe diagnosing car problems in real time is above and beyond the threshold of what a reasonable person should be able to do in order to drive. Pulling over because a car is having "problems" is more than understandable given the context of the situation.

Now, I understand where you're coming from in requiring people to be more informed about cars if they're taking it on the road. But calling people stupid and inept just because they're not as informed (but yet take appropriate actions when problems occur) is not only mean spirited, but extremely arrogant.

I don't agree. The UK test now has a component whereby the hood is lifted and you are asked to point out a key component, such as the oil filler cap. If you cannot, you fail and have to start again. I think it's an excellent addition.

 

[jlee]

People shouldn't panic when things break for unknown reasons?

So if I'm flying a 2 engine jet airplane and the left engine dies, I should totally not panic or worry at all since there are lots of single engine planes that work just fine. When given the opportunity to land and figure out wtf is wrong with it, I should just keep flying and keep it real. D:

Please explain to me how panicking makes any situation better. When's the last time an air traffic controller, pilot, police officer, firefighter, emergency medical provider, etc improved a situation by panicking?

Doesn't happen.