BMW 335i lemon?

[JulesMaximus]

So, someone I used to work with had a 335i she bought new. She loved the car but when it stalled on her on the freeway she started to have doubts. BMW replaced a high pressure pump (fuel pump?) and returned the car to her. Well, it happened 3 more times. She's saying that it is a design flaw and BMW cannot fix the problem so she used California's lemon laws to force BMW to buy her car back from her and she bought something else.

I've been doing a bit of research and it seems like this is not an isolated problem, that quite a few 335i owners are experiencing this problem.

I know we have a few 335i owners here. Anyone having any trouble with theirs?

 

[Doppel]

I know at least one other person here with a BMW 3 series late model went through something like 3 HPFPs by about 10-12k. They are nice cars to drive, but we wouldn't even accept that kind of quality from a 1980's Yugo. I assume it's fairly isolated to a particular model, though, and I think it's subsequently been resolved or at least greatly diminished.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

It's still happening, even with 2011s. BMW high pressure fuel pump warranty is now 10 years / 120k.


The thing that interests me is why it only happens to US vehicles.

 

[exdeath]

Bah! Screw BMW then, just throw in a Walbro or similar and be done with it!

 

[JulesMaximus]

It's still happening, even with 2011s. BMW high pressure fuel pump warranty is now 10 years / 120k.

The thing that interests me is why it only happens to US vehicles.

Well, Ducati has had problems with expanding gas tanks due to ethanol in our gas here. I wonder if there is a part in their high pressure fuel pump that's made out of the same resin material as Ducati gas tanks.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I have the E90 330i, which was only sold in 2006 and is the most powerful NA E90. On balance I'm kind of glad I do since my car is immune to the HPFP issue, but it certainly has not been the most reliable car the world has ever seen. Actually I am looking to trade it in for something more reliable while it still has a bit of CPO warranty left - I am not really interested in maintaining two out-of-warranty BMWs (I also have an E46 M3).

 

[manimal]

I was very close to buying a used 335 this year. Reliability concerns pushed me towards the G35.


Now all platforms have their Achilles heel. Be glad if this one goes it doesnt take the engine with it...Audi 1.8 I am looking at you...

 

[PhoKingGuy]

No probs on mine running Shell/Hess/Mobil 93 so far.

 

[videogames101]

HPFP is a super-well known issue, and BMW extended the warranty on them.

 

[JulesMaximus]

HPFP is a super-well known issue, and BMW extended the warranty on them.

Well that's comforting...

Why would I buy a car that has the potential to leave me stranded every 10-15,000 miles with no known fix except we'll replace the part the next time it fails? What happens when these cars get 120,000 miles on them? Straight to the junkyard or expensive out of warranty repairs? :thumbsdown:

 

[halik]

Bah! Screw BMW then, just throw in a Walbro or similar and be done with it!

Yeah not quite, those DI pumps make some 2000psi and are chain driven.

 

[gevorg]

Just bing it!

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/ContactUs/FuelPumpVoluntaryRecall.aspx

http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/bmwhigh-pressure-fuel-pump-nightline/

http://www.normantaylor.com/blog/le...l-pumps-%E2%80%93-has-it-happened-to-you-yet/

 

[satyajitmenon]

Well, Ducati has had problems with expanding gas tanks due to ethanol in our gas here. I wonder if there is a part in their high pressure fuel pump that's made out of the same resin material as Ducati gas tanks.

Ethanol in the gasoline sold in the US has been put forth as a possible cause. Don't know if it's conclusive though. If it was the real cause, I'd have thought they would have found a redesign/solution. But even the supposed upgraded HPFPs that they install under warranty replacement fail.

I haven't seen or heard of any HPFP cases outside the US.

I wonder if their new 2.0 turbo 4s will have this problem too.

 

[AMCRambler]

BMW...nuff said. What is it they say? You gotta pay to play? It's shitty that they still haven't fixed the problem and that they are still putting the same equipment into the cars. At least they extended the warranty though.

Seems like a fuel pump is a relatively easy item to retrofit. Are there any aftermarket parts that could be modded to replace these? I know we're talking BMW owners here though. The last thing your average beamer owner would do is improvise to solve a problem with their car.

Edit: Never mind. These things are chain driven off the motor? Cripes. Does the car really need 2000 psi to the fuel rail? Seems like an awful amount of pressure to be throwing at injectors. Yah yah, direct injection, I know I know. BMW is cutting edge. They also call it the bleeding edge for a reason.

 

[exdeath]

Injecting burning fuel into the combustion chamber at the top of the compression stroke... yeah it needs quite a bit of psi.

Diesels have been doing this for decades without problems. Someone out there knows how make fuel pumps better than BMW, all I'm saying.

 

[rchiu]

I have a 2009 335i, but Euro built. Absolutely zero problem.....knock on wood...

Yeah there has been lots of discussion on BMW engine with Ethanol, I only use fuel with no Ethanol. (not in the US right now)

 

[videogames101]

Well that's comforting...

Why would I buy a car that has the potential to leave me stranded every 10-15,000 miles with no known fix except we'll replace the part the next time it fails? What happens when these cars get 120,000 miles on them? Straight to the junkyard or expensive out of warranty repairs? :thumbsdown:

Bro, I wasn't defending BMW, I was just stating the facts for the OP - this thread hasn't had any real discussion anyways, didn't everyone already know BMWs have high maintenance costs? =/

 

[GregGreen]

Don't own a 335i but am pretty familiar with this problem. As already mentioned, they did extend the warranty. Someone mentioned it would strand them if it failed -- as I understand it, the cars go into limp mode instead of just straight up dying. BMW has come out with six or seven revisions of the HPFP and they just can't seem to get it right. The problem extends to other cars that use the same motor too: the 135i, the 335i, and the 535i all have this issue.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Why are the Euro versions trouble free? Is it an ethanol issue?

 

[rh71]

had a BMW tech drive me home the other day in their shuttle... says it's still an issue, and even the X5, pre-facelift, without the turbos have some issues - stranding people in the middle of the road which is as dangerous as any situation. I had a recall on my '08 for a fuel pump as well.

BTW, the tech said he'd never own a BMW himself seeing all the problems they come across. This is another reason so many are leased.

The HPFP for turbos was an official recall in January I believe.

 

[satyajitmenon]

I have a 2009 335i, but Euro built. Absolutely zero problem.....knock on wood...

Yeah there has been lots of discussion on BMW engine with Ethanol, I only use fuel with no Ethanol. (not in the US right now)

And thats the reason why there's the Ethanol theory. Anecdotal evidence from owners who haven't used Ethanol-free Gasoline indicates that it's the root cause.

But I don't think anyone (including BMW) has actually done any proper testing to prove this - at least they haven't published any results of tests publicly. Perhaps BMW has done testing, and determined that there is no solution due to the design of the Fuel Pump? I.e. it would be more expensive to redesign than to replace under warranty?

 

[rh71]

BMW seems to be headed in one direction without worrying about the wake it leaves behind. Cutting edge technology has bugs and they would only attempt to fix it for new release models but not the past. Retrofits aren't very easily accomplished, and are discouraged. It's just their business model to keep people buying their latest (my salesman expected me to lease). I've heard so many stories how they've lost customers because of reliability problems, but BMWNA doesn't seem to care - they do only the minimum to resolve and require gag orders. Only if it threatens to become a bigger issue.

People keep coming back though. I don't have a distaste for them yet, but I really didn't know what I was getting myself into nearly 4 years ago. I just bought a $3k extended warranty and I actually feel good about having it cause I'm sure I'm going to use it. So sad.

Someone may or may not have direct experience, but the next time they throw out "they're expensive to maintain", heed the warning. In short, only rent.

 

[JulesMaximus]

BMW seems to be headed in one direction without worrying about the wake it leaves behind. Cutting edge technology has bugs and they would only attempt to fix it for new release models but not the past. Retrofits aren't very easily accomplished, and are discouraged. It's just their business model to keep people buying their latest (my salesman expected me to lease). I've heard so many stories how they've lost customers because of reliability problems, but BMWNA doesn't seem to care - they do only the minimum to resolve and require gag orders. Only if it threatens to become a bigger issue.

People keep coming back though. I don't have a distaste for them yet, but I really didn't know what I was getting myself into nearly 4 years ago. I just bought a $3k extended warranty and I actually feel good about having it cause I'm sure I'm going to use it. So sad.

Someone may or may not have direct experience, but the next time they throw out "they're expensive to maintain", heed the warning. In short, only rent.

My Mother-In-Law had a 740i she bought used a number of years ago, it was 2 years old and only had 30,000 miles on it. In the few years she owned it she put maybe 40,000 miles on it and went through a power steering pump, power steering rack, both out of warranty, and a few other major repairs. She sold it and bought a Mercedes E320 and now she has a 2010 E350 sedan.

When she was thinking of selling the BMW I was considering buying it from her but our BMW mechanic actually talked me out of it (we had a 3 series at the time).

 

[satyajitmenon]

My Mother-In-Law had a 740i she bought used a number of years ago, it was 2 years old and only had 30,000 miles on it. In the few years she owned it she put maybe 40,000 miles on it and went through a power steering pump, power steering rack, both out of warranty, and a few other major repairs. She sold it and bought a Mercedes E320 and now she has a 2010 E350 sedan.

When she was thinking of selling the BMW I was considering buying it from her but our BMW mechanic actually talked me out of it (we had a 3 series at the time).

You talking about the E38?

They were nice cars - but not the most reliable. I think that was the generation that had a lot of electrical issues.

In my opinion, all BMWs after the 90s have issues. Most of them are known issues and any buyer of used BMWs would have to make sure they factor in the repairs associated with those issues into the buying cost. Such as the FCABs on E39s, Cooling Systems, Rear Subframe (only E46 I think), etc.

The problem with newer BMWs (2004+) is that while BMW continued on it's path of newer engineering designs, the components are getting way to complex to be thoroughly reliable in the long run. And with a combination of more electronic and less mechanical/hydraulic, the BMW DIYer won't find it easy to fix problems themselves. Which means costly replacements parts via the stealership.

Having said all this, my experience with BMWs has only been in the US. I don't know if BMWs have a solid reputation for reliability in other countries/continents, and there's just something in the air/water here that makes them less than perfect reliability.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You talking about the E38?

They were nice cars - but not the most reliable. I think that was the generation that had a lot of electrical issues.

In my opinion, all BMWs after the 90s have issues. Most of them are known issues and any buyer of used BMWs would have to make sure they factor in the repairs associated with those issues into the buying cost. Such as the FCABs on E39s, Cooling Systems, Rear Subframe (only E46 I think), etc.

The problem with newer BMWs (2004+) is that while BMW continued on it's path of newer engineering designs, the components are getting way to complex to be thoroughly reliable in the long run. And with a combination of more electronic and less mechanical/hydraulic, the BMW DIYer won't find it easy to fix problems themselves. Which means costly replacements parts via the stealership.

Having said all this, my experience with BMWs has only been in the US. I don't know if BMWs have a solid reputation for reliability in other countries/continents, and there's just something in the air/water here that makes them less than perfect reliability.

I think it was a 2001 IIRC. Mechanic said there were some design flaws in the engine that would cause some very expensive repairs down the road. I don't remember what specifically but he recommended against buying the car even though it was well maintained...and this is a guy who would have benefited from me having purchased that car (trusted German auto mechanic, not the BMW dealership).