BMW 335i Bi-Turbo Inline 6 (w/pics)

[OS]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Ilikepiedoyou
ehhh it's a BMW, don't expect good engineering

edit: a real motor is the toda f20 motor. Its a 2.0 liter that makes 293 hp at the wheels naturally aspirtated in the s2000

according to honda's website, the S2k makes 237hp and 162 lb-ft of torque at 7800/6800 respectively. wtf are you smoking (unless that motor is in a previous gen s2k)

Honda engine get no low end torque.

Try the Mitsu Evo's engine or the Subaru STI's.

lol, you say hondas have no low end torque, but then you go point at an evo. Have you even ridden in one before?

Evos have no balls below 3000 rpm, the car uses something like 20 PSI of boost to get the numbers it does, which ultimately means turbo lag.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Ilikepiedoyou
ehhh it's a BMW, don't expect good engineering

edit: a real motor is the toda f20 motor. Its a 2.0 liter that makes 293 hp at the wheels naturally aspirtated in the s2000

according to honda's website, the S2k makes 237hp and 162 lb-ft of torque at 7800/6800 respectively. wtf are you smoking (unless that motor is in a previous gen s2k)

Honda engine get no low end torque.

Try the Mitsu Evo's engine or the Subaru STI's.

lol, you say hondas have no low end torque, but then you go point at an evo. Have you even ridden in one before?

Evos have no balls below 3000 rpm, the car uses something like 20 PSI of boost to get the numbers it does, which ultimately means turbo lag.

ill show u a car with the turbo lag pretty bad.

ill try find Jeremy clarksons video of the JAG XJ220.....it goes a little something like this......

puts foot hard down......car reaches 50Mph............50...............51..............still 51............52.............*barn door turbos kick in*.........60.......82......110........135......150......it was crazy


all from a 3.5litre V6 taken from the Metro 6R4 rally machine, with 2 absolutely huge turbos fitted.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
its not a diesel engine is it?

7000rpm suggests its not, but i would of thougth 300BHP is not alot for that engine.

then again you yanks cant complain alot f your V8's dont even make 300Bhp and they displace more......granted they produce oodles of torque

anyway this car is below thw M3 in terms of price point, so i dont think they'd want it beating the M3 for less money

much like the porsche cayman could of been so much faster, but they didnt want it to be better than the 911 for less money

LS2 and LS7 FTW. american V8's have mountians of torque, something which foreign cars tend to not have (relative to their HP. HP >> torque, quite often)

examples:

Chrysler 300 5.7L V8: 340hp, 390 lb-ft torque (emdunds)
Chrysler 300 SRT8 6.1L V8: 425hp, 420lb-ft torque

C6 corvette 6L V8: 400hp, 400 lb-ft torque
C6 corvetter Z06 7L V8: 500hp, 505 lb-ft torque

Ford mustang GT 4.6L v8: 300hp, 320 lb-ft torque (emdunds)

oh yeah, i forgot to mention that the new Z06 rapes almost every euro super sport car for a small fraction of the price.

 

[secretanchitman]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
its not a diesel engine is it?

7000rpm suggests its not, but i would of thougth 300BHP is not alot for that engine.

then again you yanks cant complain alot f your V8's dont even make 300Bhp and they displace more......granted they produce oodles of torque

anyway this car is below thw M3 in terms of price point, so i dont think they'd want it beating the M3 for less money

much like the porsche cayman could of been so much faster, but they didnt want it to be better than the 911 for less money

LS2 and LS7 FTW. american V8's have mountians of torque, something which foreign cars tend to not have (relative to their HP. HP >> torque, quite often)

examples:

Chrysler 300 5.7L V8: 340hp, 390 lb-ft torque (emdunds)
Chrysler 300 SRT8 6.1L V8: 425hp, 420lb-ft torque

C6 corvette 6L V8: 400hp, 400 lb-ft torque
C6 corvetter Z06 7L V8: 500hp, 505 lb-ft torque

Ford mustang GT 4.6L v8: 300hp, 320 lb-ft torque (emdunds)

oh yeah, i forgot to mention that the new Z06 rapes almost every euro super sport car for a small fraction of the price.

corvettes = teh suxxors. IMO.

it does have a good price/performance ratio, but otherwise...i cant really stand american cars that much, especially the corvette.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
its not a diesel engine is it?

7000rpm suggests its not, but i would of thougth 300BHP is not alot for that engine.

then again you yanks cant complain alot f your V8's dont even make 300Bhp and they displace more......granted they produce oodles of torque

anyway this car is below thw M3 in terms of price point, so i dont think they'd want it beating the M3 for less money

much like the porsche cayman could of been so much faster, but they didnt want it to be better than the 911 for less money

LS2 and LS7 FTW. american V8's have mountians of torque, something which foreign cars tend to not have (relative to their HP. HP >> torque, quite often)

examples:

Chrysler 300 5.7L V8: 340hp, 390 lb-ft torque (emdunds)
Chrysler 300 SRT8 6.1L V8: 425hp, 420lb-ft torque

C6 corvette 6L V8: 400hp, 400 lb-ft torque
C6 corvetter Z06 7L V8: 500hp, 505 lb-ft torque

Ford mustang GT 4.6L v8: 300hp, 320 lb-ft torque (emdunds)

oh yeah, i forgot to mention that the new Z06 rapes almost every euro super sport car for a small fraction of the price.

ill give you that, the corvette is now a spectacular machine.


there was a AMG CL65 (or something like that) .... 6.5litre V12. they actually had to detune it because it produced so much torque the drive train wouldnt of withstood a full bore start.

bugatti's veyron pushes almost 1000ft lb torque......thats the real reason its so much quicker in acceleration than the Mclaren F1

 

[Finality]

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: Finality
Who said anything about the M3 engine? M3 engines tend to blow up if you dont know.

Like any engine modded it can perform better. Want a good example of a forced induction engine take look at the 5.5L V8 Supercharged AMG units.

every engine tend to blow up. that's their purpose.

M3 engines blow up before you even hit the 20K mark. Its not a limited problem there are a lotta jokes going on about how fragile the 3 engines are. Even the E39 M5 had a weakish engine not as bad but a lot of people had blown engines. I'm waiting to see how many E90 M5 engines blow up should be fun seeing is its a bigger engine more cylinders and an even higher compression ratio.

M5 engines gonna grenate itself soon 🙂

Fenixgoon : while the Z06 is a fantastic car dont pu too much faith into the numbers that they produce. Apparently GM spends weeks tuning the cars for a particular circuit then hands it to the magazine to test. Its a great car for the buck but there are many doubts about its handling prowess compared to something like the 911.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Finality

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: Finality
Who said anything about the M3 engine? M3 engines tend to blow up if you dont know.

Like any engine modded it can perform better. Want a good example of a forced induction engine take look at the 5.5L V8 Supercharged AMG units.

every engine tend to blow up. that's their purpose.

M3 engines blow up before you even hit the 20K mark. Its not a limited problem there are a lotta jokes going on about how fragile the 3 engines are. Even the E39 M5 had a weakish engine not as bad but a lot of people had blown engines. I'm waiting to see how many E90 M5 engines blow up should be fun seeing is its a bigger engine more cylinders and an even higher compression ratio.

M5 engines gonna grenate itself soon 🙂

Fenixgoon : while the Z06 is a fantastic car dont pu too much faith into the numbers that they produce. Apparently GM spends weeks tuning the cars for a particular circuit then hands it to the magazine to test. Its a great car for the buck but there are many doubts about its handling prowess compared to something like the 911.

Engine problems present in less than 5% of E46 M3s, so you're full of sh!t. The other E46 6 cylinders are just as solid as any they've ever made, with engine problems being extremely rare.

The early E39 v8s did have some problems, including the M5's v8, but after 2001 they were as solid as anything else.

And I don't think we'll be seeing many problems with the E60 M5 engine. It's got 5 years of engineering and a lot of money in it. It'll do fine.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Finality

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: Finality
Who said anything about the M3 engine? M3 engines tend to blow up if you dont know.

Like any engine modded it can perform better. Want a good example of a forced induction engine take look at the 5.5L V8 Supercharged AMG units.

every engine tend to blow up. that's their purpose.

M3 engines blow up before you even hit the 20K mark. Its not a limited problem there are a lotta jokes going on about how fragile the 3 engines are. Even the E39 M5 had a weakish engine not as bad but a lot of people had blown engines. I'm waiting to see how many E90 M5 engines blow up should be fun seeing is its a bigger engine more cylinders and an even higher compression ratio.

M5 engines gonna grenate itself soon 🙂

Fenixgoon : while the Z06 is a fantastic car dont pu too much faith into the numbers that they produce. Apparently GM spends weeks tuning the cars for a particular circuit then hands it to the magazine to test. Its a great car for the buck but there are many doubts about its handling prowess compared to something like the 911.

it pulls over 1g on a skidpad, that's pretty freakin impressive for a $65k car.
someone had a post about the Z06's nurburgring times.. it had 21st overall.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor
This thing will be a monster once it's tuned. Imagine it with a big turbo conversion. Sure, you'd have lag, but once it spooled, you'd have a modern Supra that could actually go 'round corners.

another thing, it's not stated whether this engine is of a closed deck, iron block construction like the supra engine.

In fact if I had to guess, it's probably not since almost no one builds engines like that anymore. Those aspects are what let the supra make insane HP numbers.

No it's not. I've seen Volvo 3.0 inline 6 cylinder engines pushed to 1000 horse power. They're fully aluminum, open deck.

You can't forget that we also have the wonders of VVT and even variable turbo geometry these days.

This new BMW engine is mostly aluminum with some magnesium components, and open deck, just like all the others.

What's an open deck and closed deck?

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor
This thing will be a monster once it's tuned. Imagine it with a big turbo conversion. Sure, you'd have lag, but once it spooled, you'd have a modern Supra that could actually go 'round corners.

another thing, it's not stated whether this engine is of a closed deck, iron block construction like the supra engine.

In fact if I had to guess, it's probably not since almost no one builds engines like that anymore. Those aspects are what let the supra make insane HP numbers.

No it's not. I've seen Volvo 3.0 inline 6 cylinder engines pushed to 1000 horse power. They're fully aluminum, open deck.

You can't forget that we also have the wonders of VVT and even variable turbo geometry these days.

This new BMW engine is mostly aluminum with some magnesium components, and open deck, just like all the others.

Show me an aluminum open deck volvo stock block, stock internals that does 1000 hp please. No sleeves, etc.

Even if you could, it says nothing about how reliable that power is. A handful of dyno runs is not the same as a time proven platform like the supra.

Stock supra shortblocks with the stock bottom end is good for 700+ HP. The engine has been proven for a decade, this one is not.

Later supras had VVT and most say it tends to hurt power after 500 HP.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Finality

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: Finality
Who said anything about the M3 engine? M3 engines tend to blow up if you dont know.

Like any engine modded it can perform better. Want a good example of a forced induction engine take look at the 5.5L V8 Supercharged AMG units.

every engine tend to blow up. that's their purpose.

M3 engines blow up before you even hit the 20K mark. Its not a limited problem there are a lotta jokes going on about how fragile the 3 engines are. Even the E39 M5 had a weakish engine not as bad but a lot of people had blown engines. I'm waiting to see how many E90 M5 engines blow up should be fun seeing is its a bigger engine more cylinders and an even higher compression ratio.

M5 engines gonna grenate itself soon 🙂

Fenixgoon : while the Z06 is a fantastic car dont pu too much faith into the numbers that they produce. Apparently GM spends weeks tuning the cars for a particular circuit then hands it to the magazine to test. Its a great car for the buck but there are many doubts about its handling prowess compared to something like the 911.

it pulls over 1g on a skidpad, that's pretty freakin impressive for a $65k car.
someone had a post about the Z06's nurburgring times.. it had 21st overall.

Z06: 7 min 42.99 seconds on STOCK RUNFLAT TIRES

997 Turbo: 7 min 40 seconds on Cup tires.

The Aston Martin AM V8 runs 8:13 on stock Bridgestone tires, much much better than the runflats. When moving to DOT-R tires (Pirelli P-Zero Corsa), it drops a full 10 seconds, to 8 min 3 seconds.

The difference between run-flats and cup tires is worth well over 10 seconds on the ring.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor
This thing will be a monster once it's tuned. Imagine it with a big turbo conversion. Sure, you'd have lag, but once it spooled, you'd have a modern Supra that could actually go 'round corners.

another thing, it's not stated whether this engine is of a closed deck, iron block construction like the supra engine.

In fact if I had to guess, it's probably not since almost no one builds engines like that anymore. Those aspects are what let the supra make insane HP numbers.

No it's not. I've seen Volvo 3.0 inline 6 cylinder engines pushed to 1000 horse power. They're fully aluminum, open deck.

You can't forget that we also have the wonders of VVT and even variable turbo geometry these days.

This new BMW engine is mostly aluminum with some magnesium components, and open deck, just like all the others.

Show me an aluminum open deck volvo stock block, stock internals that does 1000 hp please. No sleeves, etc.

Even if you could, it says nothing about how reliable that power is. A handful of dyno runs is not the same as a time proven platform like the supra.

Stock supra shortblocks with the stock bottom end is good for 700+ HP. The engine has been proven for a decade, this one is not.

Later supras had VVT and most say it tends to hurt power after 500 HP.

Volvo's white block engines were designed by Cosworth and Porsche. You'll find forged internals, piston oil squirters, etc.

Anyway, back on topic, this new BMW will obviously be much more fun to drive than the Supra was, and it'll be nice to have a BMW that you can actually get more power from without big $ mods.

I'm not saying the Supra was a bad car, certainly not, that's why I chose it as a benchmark of performance. But it's time is gone and past.

 

[Finality]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Finality

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: Finality
Who said anything about the M3 engine? M3 engines tend to blow up if you dont know.

Like any engine modded it can perform better. Want a good example of a forced induction engine take look at the 5.5L V8 Supercharged AMG units.

every engine tend to blow up. that's their purpose.

M3 engines blow up before you even hit the 20K mark. Its not a limited problem there are a lotta jokes going on about how fragile the 3 engines are. Even the E39 M5 had a weakish engine not as bad but a lot of people had blown engines. I'm waiting to see how many E90 M5 engines blow up should be fun seeing is its a bigger engine more cylinders and an even higher compression ratio.

M5 engines gonna grenate itself soon 🙂

Fenixgoon : while the Z06 is a fantastic car dont pu too much faith into the numbers that they produce. Apparently GM spends weeks tuning the cars for a particular circuit then hands it to the magazine to test. Its a great car for the buck but there are many doubts about its handling prowess compared to something like the 911.

Engine problems present in less than 5% of E46 M3s, so you're full of sh!t. The other E46 6 cylinders are just as solid as any they've ever made, with engine problems being extremely rare.

The early E39 v8s did have some problems, including the M5's v8, but after 2001 they were as solid as anything else.

And I don't think we'll be seeing many problems with the E60 M5 engine. It's got 5 years of engineering and a lot of money in it. It'll do fine.

5% = BMW marketing BS poll any M3 forum for drivers above 20K miles and see what they say, basically your full of sh|t. The M5 V8s where problematic I know quite a few 2002s that blew up check out M5board yourself if you dont believe me.

BMW engines have more than their fare share of problems

I'll bet any amount of money we'll start to see major problems with the V10 withing 12 months from now. BMW had 5 years of engineerinb behind the E46 M3 engines but I still see those damn things grenading itself, even after they 'fixed' the problem.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Finality

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Finality

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: Finality
Who said anything about the M3 engine? M3 engines tend to blow up if you dont know.

Like any engine modded it can perform better. Want a good example of a forced induction engine take look at the 5.5L V8 Supercharged AMG units.

every engine tend to blow up. that's their purpose.

M3 engines blow up before you even hit the 20K mark. Its not a limited problem there are a lotta jokes going on about how fragile the 3 engines are. Even the E39 M5 had a weakish engine not as bad but a lot of people had blown engines. I'm waiting to see how many E90 M5 engines blow up should be fun seeing is its a bigger engine more cylinders and an even higher compression ratio.

M5 engines gonna grenate itself soon 🙂

Fenixgoon : while the Z06 is a fantastic car dont pu too much faith into the numbers that they produce. Apparently GM spends weeks tuning the cars for a particular circuit then hands it to the magazine to test. Its a great car for the buck but there are many doubts about its handling prowess compared to something like the 911.

Engine problems present in less than 5% of E46 M3s, so you're full of sh!t. The other E46 6 cylinders are just as solid as any they've ever made, with engine problems being extremely rare.

The early E39 v8s did have some problems, including the M5's v8, but after 2001 they were as solid as anything else.

And I don't think we'll be seeing many problems with the E60 M5 engine. It's got 5 years of engineering and a lot of money in it. It'll do fine.

5% = BMW marketing BS poll any M3 forum for drivers above 20K miles and see what they say, basically your full of sh|t. The M5 V8s where problematic I know quite a few 2002s that blew up check out M5board yourself if you dont believe me.

Unless you dealers aren't sending in the warranty paper work for replacing those engines, then I can guarantee you that the engine failure rate among all E46 M3s (do you even know how many have been sold?) is within half a percentage point of 5%.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Unless you dealers aren't sending in the warranty paper work for replacing those engines, then I can guarantee you that the engine failure rate among all E46 M3s (do you even know how many have been sold?) is within half a percentage point of 5%.

To be fair, there is a possibility that some warranty work claims are being denied. It's my experience that some dealers first try to blame the customer for problems, before exploring the possibility of warranty replacement.

 

[Finality]

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: Nebor

Unless you dealers aren't sending in the warranty paper work for replacing those engines, then I can guarantee you that the engine failure rate among all E46 M3s (do you even know how many have been sold?) is within half a percentage point of 5%.

To be fair, there is a possibility that some warranty work claims are being denied. It's my experience that some dealers first try to blame the customer for problems, before exploring the possibility of warranty replacement.

Yeah the standard blame is an overrev recorded on the ECU, which is funny since a lot of M3 owners have SMG!

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Anyway, back on topic, this new BMW will obviously be much more fun to drive than the Supra was

Please substantiate your claim that this new BMW will "obviously" be much more fun to drive than the Supra was. Why is it obvious? The Supra is a sports car, which in my opinion are more fun to drive than normal passenger cars like this BMW.

Originally posted by: Nebor
I'm not saying the Supra was a bad car, certainly not, that's why I chose it as a benchmark of performance. But it's time is gone and past.

I think you'll find that the Supra will still outperform this BMW, even if its time has passed as you claim. Just because something is newer doesn't mean it's better. The McLaren F1's time has passed... does that mean a new Ford Focus will outperform it? I chose two totally different cars to illustrate my point, but I think you'll find that the Supra will still handle the BMW like a sports car should handle a passenger car.

The BMW is a passenger car, not made to deliver the type of performance that the Supra delivers. It is outclassed.

BTW, they gave some performance (acceleration) figures in that post, and those numbers already fall short of the Supra, 300ZXTT, and RX-7.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Apex

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Finality

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: Finality
Who said anything about the M3 engine? M3 engines tend to blow up if you dont know.

Like any engine modded it can perform better. Want a good example of a forced induction engine take look at the 5.5L V8 Supercharged AMG units.

every engine tend to blow up. that's their purpose.

M3 engines blow up before you even hit the 20K mark. Its not a limited problem there are a lotta jokes going on about how fragile the 3 engines are. Even the E39 M5 had a weakish engine not as bad but a lot of people had blown engines. I'm waiting to see how many E90 M5 engines blow up should be fun seeing is its a bigger engine more cylinders and an even higher compression ratio.

M5 engines gonna grenate itself soon 🙂

Fenixgoon : while the Z06 is a fantastic car dont pu too much faith into the numbers that they produce. Apparently GM spends weeks tuning the cars for a particular circuit then hands it to the magazine to test. Its a great car for the buck but there are many doubts about its handling prowess compared to something like the 911.

it pulls over 1g on a skidpad, that's pretty freakin impressive for a $65k car.
someone had a post about the Z06's nurburgring times.. it had 21st overall.

Z06: 7 min 42.99 seconds on STOCK RUNFLAT TIRES

997 Turbo: 7 min 40 seconds on Cup tires.

The Aston Martin AM V8 runs 8:13 on stock Bridgestone tires, much much better than the runflats. When moving to DOT-R tires (Pirelli P-Zero Corsa), it drops a full 10 seconds, to 8 min 3 seconds.

The difference between run-flats and cup tires is worth well over 10 seconds on the ring.

ah, thank you apex 🙂 :beer: for you!

if the rumored "blue devil" corvette ever hits the streets, my pants will be totally ruined in more ways than 1