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BMW 135/335 go single turbo - amdhunter go insane.

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sdifox said:
err, how does the turbo impact emission at idle? Or even at start?
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A turbo "takes" heat away that the cat needs to work. The faster the cat warms up, the lower it's start up emissions are. That was the cause of the great turbo-extinction that happened in the early 90's. Emissions regs keep stepping up and with the whole '70s repeat turbos are once again being put on the line of "small and high performance +MPG" or "large and warms cats".

In the end, performance enthusiasts lose. We're the minority, and all the laws are working against us. And lets face it, manufacturers hate warranty claims.
 
Demon-Xanth said:
A turbo "takes" heat away that the cat needs to work. The faster the cat warms up, the lower it's start up emissions are. That was the cause of the great turbo-extinction that happened in the early 90's. Emissions regs keep stepping up and with the whole '70s repeat turbos are once again being put on the line of "small and high performance +MPG" or "large and warms cats".

In the end, performance enthusiasts lose. We're the minority, and all the laws are working against us. And lets face it, manufacturers hate warranty claims.
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Wouldn't the waste gate be wide open on startup? I can see it being an issue on idle (maybe), but chances are when you are idling the cat is hot enough already. Unless you start and then sit there and idle :awe:

Should be relatively easy to install (yet another power drain) a cat heater similar to a block heater except it's relay controlled?
 
sdifox said:
Wouldn't the waste gate be wide open on startup? I can see it being an issue on idle (maybe), but chances are when you are idling the cat is hot enough already. Unless you start and then sit there and idle :awe:

Should be relatively easy to install (yet another power drain) a cat heater similar to a block heater except it's relay controlled?
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Post turbo cats work at way higher temperatures. My cat runs upwards of 1200 degrees.
 
just get an S4. even more underrated than the 335i, AWD, and ridiculous response since it's supercharged instead of turbocharged.
 
sdifox said:
Wouldn't the waste gate be wide open on startup?[/url]
Why should it be?

normally it's fully closed, so the turbo can spin up.
And that's the reason every gasoline engine should have a BoV, to keep the turbo spinning. (and yes, there are some stupit out there who sold a car without that valve).

@Fenixgoon
The weight distribution isn't that great on an Audi, fuel consumtion isn't either, so no reason for that...
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Fenixgoon said:
just get an S4. even more underrated than the 335i, AWD, and ridiculous response since it's supercharged instead of turbocharged.
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Test drove it, didn't like the DSG transmission, the salesman reneged on getting me a test drive on a manual + they offer no incentives like scheduled maintenance, or anything.
 
Stefan Payne said:
sdifox said:
Wouldn't the waste gate be wide open on startup?[/url]
Why should it be?

normally it's fully closed, so the turbo can spin up.
And that's the reason every gasoline engine should have a BoV, to keep the turbo spinning. (and yes, there are some stupit out there who sold a car without that valve).

@Fenixgoon
The weight distribution isn't that great on an Audi, fuel consumtion isn't either, so no reason for that...
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the latest S4 has much better weight distribution and the fuel consumption is excellent.
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Not to threadcrap, as I *love* the 335i/M3, and really like the power/performance of the 1-series (not so happy about the smushed look, but whatever) ...

But I wonder if the new 412hp Mustang is gonna sap a bit of sales from enthusiasts. If the rumors of the '11 GT lapping at the same speed as the current M3 are true, it's not just going to be fast in a straight line, but a capable track car as well (if it wasn't, it wouldn't be able to keep up with one of the best road-legal cars on earth below $100k).

The BMW will probably retain the 'feel' edge, and of course the luxury aspect, along with badge appeal, but on value, power, and probably fuel economy as well, I think it's somewhat of a game changer.

It's lighter than an M3 as well, apparently even without the use of exotic materials and with a 5.0L motor.
 
I've never really thought the Mustang GT and M3 to be competitors in the marketplace. The 335 maybe. But really, you're going after different customer bases because of the wide variances in price, poshness, and image.

That said... the 5.0 in the Mustang looks like it promises to be hot. And I always considered the 335i to be the "budget" M3. Great performance without the price premium.
 
Demon-Xanth said:
I've never really thought the Mustang GT and M3 to be competitors in the marketplace. The 335 maybe. But really, you're going after different customer bases because of the wide variances in price, poshness, and image.

That said... the 5.0 in the Mustang looks like it promises to be hot. And I always considered the 335i to be the "budget" M3. Great performance without the price premium.
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Ford is doing some great things so we'll see. I've been waiting on the new mustang as well. Even the 300+hp V6 model sounds great for 21K-22K
 
amdhunter said:
Not at all, I would LOVE one...but I am afraid of maintaining one with some mileage on it.
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But your going to lease a car?! Work out the costs and your total budget.

For me it was £14k or a bit either side. You see a lot of very optimistic ads man...

Maintenance is okay from what I@ve read and it goes like this:
1k miles - Running in : free usually
11k - Oil £120-180 tops
23k Inspection 1 £400-500
34k - Oil £120-180 tops
45k Inspec II £550-780

Front Disc, front pads and rear pads £650 will need doing around 45-50k miles or so
Tyres £220 each but you can possibly find local independents that will do them for £160 each!

Get one thats had it's last major inspection done recently to avoid the Insp II, discs and pads and tyres. I don't need a service for another 12-13k miles with new dsics, pads and tyres 😀 I only need an oil service which is very reasonable.

Engines reliable just make sure it's had all the recall work done on it! For the UK you can get the VIN and the last 7 digits and get a BMW garage to check if it had all the work done on it. My car has and I'm happy with it.

Have a £2k warchest for any possible issues and your good to go.

The 135/335 idea is going to cost a fair amount imo! But go with what you can afford (I'd love a 430 😛) and makes you happy. Drive a beater for a few months to save up if you have to!

Koing
 
DivideBYZero said:
Who cares as long as it still goes like a scalded cat?
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Within reason...Ferrari 360 you could pick up for £38-45k, but the maintenance is pretty savage...£4k a year and more if you drive it more...not ideal 😛

Koing
 
Koing said:
Within reason...Ferrari 360 you could pick up for £38-45k, but the maintenance is pretty savage...£4k a year and more if you drive it more...not ideal 😛

Koing
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Yeah, I was talking about 1 turbo Vs two. If the end result is the same, i.e., gobs of power and good spool up, then where's the beef? Twin Scroll turbos are very good.
 
DivideBYZero said:
Yeah, I was talking about 1 turbo Vs two. If the end result is the same, i.e., gobs of power and good spool up, then where's the beef? Twin Scroll turbos are very good.
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My biggest beef is the massive loss in tunability. Look at current 335i tuning packages, they can do 440 lb.ft without changing anything but the tune. A single twin scroll will never be able to do that, but that is from a enthusiasts perspective, the market will not care I'm sure.
 
I understand that point of view, being an ex-WRX owner, but obviously that market is of very little interest to BMW. It IS a shame, but this means if you have a TT version right now it's resale to a tuner just went up a notch!
 
I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion a bit. First of all, lets wait for the thing to come out before we make any final judgments on tune-ability. Secondly, the new engine gets direct injection, and the twin scroll turbo spools faster and has a flatter torque curve than the twins. I think we should all do some reading up on twin-scroll turbo setups. 🙂
 
Why are you upset? You can always get an older 335i or get the new 335is. The IS has the old N54 motor.

I'm interested to see if the new N55 motor will have HPFP failures. My HPFP failed at 2500 miles so I'm a bit concerned about my car's longevity. The new N55 is supposed to have a new HPFP.
 
As a 335i owner I can say there's nothing compelling about the new model. I don't notice any turbo lag now and I believe mine kicks in around 1,200 rpm. Maybe some are really picky, but it's got plenty of power for me.

I don't see why you can't get a 335i. There's a ton of them on lease trade sites. Just grab one and at the end of the lease buy it out or refinance it.
 
amdhunter said:
Turbo 4 engines suck. I hate my 2.0T GLi, and I hate my brothers EvoX. The only 4 banger I do like is the Civic Si, and that is NA. 🙂
EDIT: I hate my brothers EvoX mainly due to the DSG transmission, I might like it more if it were manual.
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I was gonna say... My good friend has a Evo X GSR with the 5 speed and that is a hell of a fun car to drive. Hes got an injen intake and downpipe, ams exhaust, hks super squential bov and a tune and that car is ridiculous. Was still fun before the mods but now, WOW. Makes me think about getting the 2.0T genesis coupe instead of the 3.8 but I want to keep a warranty...
 
Cobalt said:
I was gonna say... My good friend has a Evo X GSR with the 5 speed and that is a hell of a fun car to drive. Hes got an injen intake and downpipe, ams exhaust, hks super squential bov and a tune and that car is ridiculous. Was still fun before the mods but now, WOW. Makes me think about getting the 2.0T genesis coupe instead of the 3.8 but I want to keep a warranty...
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Yeah turbo 4 engines suck, which is why subaru has never had any luck selling their...oh wait.
 
Too much hate for the turbo 4 in this thread. Turbo lag on the VAG 2.0T FSI? Did you honestly think that you were going to pass someone in 6th gear at 40mph? WTF?

If you hate the lag with the VAG 2.0T there is no way you are gonna not bitch about any other turbo engine. Go get something with a V8 and be done with it.
 
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