• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Blue-Ray VS HD-DVD The Untold Story.

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
To me, the most intriguing feature of Blu-Ray is the ability to have a double-layer DVD and a single layer Blu-Ray disc on the same disc and on the same side of the disc. The disc has 33.5 GB of space: 8.5GB DL DVD and 25GB Blu-Ray, and the transition is seamless from a blu-ray player/recorder (which also records in the DVD region) to a DVD player/recorded.

When it is economically feasible, the studios will likely release movies on such a disc with content in both HD and standard DVD forms, so that people can have an HD library already when they purchase a blu-ray player.
 
Originally posted by: raz3000
To me, the most intriguing feature of Blu-Ray is the ability to have a double-layer DVD and a single layer Blu-Ray disc on the same disc and on the same side of the disc. The disc has 33.5 GB of space: 8.5GB DL DVD and 25GB Blu-Ray, and the transition is seamless from a blu-ray player/recorder (which also records in the DVD region) to a DVD player/recorded.

When it is economically feasible, the studios will likely release movies on such a disc with content in both HD and standard DVD forms, so that people can have an HD library already when they purchase a blu-ray player.
Click to expand...
I do believe you have that backwards. HD-DVD allows dual sided disc. HD-DVD will ship with Dual Layer, so 30GB + support for Dual sided media, allowing DVD-9 on the reverse.

And that is also a key part of this last week's announcements. HD-DVD will ship 1Q06 with dual layer. BluRay (BD) will first ship as a single layer (so far).

 
It helps to know who the players are on each side.

The latest move has both Intel and Microsoft moving into the HD-DVD camp. The plan is apparently to have Vista include HD-DVD drivers. Other HD-DVD team members include Toshiba and Universal Studios.

The Blu-Ray camp led by Sony includes, Apple, H-P, and Dell. These are the major players.

Efforts to unite the groups to a common standard have gone no where. Analysts see the market as sticking with current DVD technology until a winner is clear.

Technology does not usually trump business decisions. Remember, Betamax was superior to VHS - then came the Memory Stick.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the Microsoft-Intel team.
 
Originally posted by: klah
Originally posted by: ArneBjarne

What are these then?
Click to expand...
Dummy mockups.


September 27, 2005
Jordi Ribas, Microsoft's director of technology:

The surprise entry in Microsoft's and Intel's list of failures is disc storage capacity. On paper, Blu-ray appears to have the advantage. But the two companies looked beneath the paper: Capacity, said Ribas, "used to be the biggest advantage of Blu-ray, and we believed it. We thought, they'll get 50 GByte BD-ROM discs working, but it's not happening, and it's nowhere in sight. There are not even pilots.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yeah right. Forgot to put on the tinfoil hat. It's all a big conspiracy by JVC, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung and TDK, all making all those mockups. I mean the competitors PR guys say so, it must be true. :roll:
 
I believe & hope HD-DVD wins simply because of the backward compatibility. This would be more consumer friendly in that people would only have to change their player and begin buying future HD-DVDs while keeping their older DVDs.

I believe the single biggest reason the studios & companies are pushing this new DVD standard is because the current DVD encryption has been broken. Its about control before its about money.
 
Originally posted by: SGtheArtist
I believe & hope HD-DVD wins simply because of the backward compatibility. This would be more consumer friendly in that people would only have to change their player and begin buying future HD-DVDs while keeping their older DVDs.

I believe the single biggest reason the studios & companies are pushing this new DVD standard is because the current DVD encryption has been broken. Its about control before its about money.
Click to expand...

HD-DVD is neither more nor less backward compatible than Blu-Ray.
 
Originally posted by: gsellis
Originally posted by: raz3000
To me, the most intriguing feature of Blu-Ray is the ability to have a double-layer DVD and a single layer Blu-Ray disc on the same disc and on the same side of the disc. The disc has 33.5 GB of space: 8.5GB DL DVD and 25GB Blu-Ray, and the transition is seamless from a blu-ray player/recorder (which also records in the DVD region) to a DVD player/recorded.

When it is economically feasible, the studios will likely release movies on such a disc with content in both HD and standard DVD forms, so that people can have an HD library already when they purchase a blu-ray player.
Click to expand...
I do believe you have that backwards. HD-DVD allows dual sided disc. HD-DVD will ship with Dual Layer, so 30GB + support for Dual sided media, allowing DVD-9 on the reverse.

And that is also a key part of this last week's announcements. HD-DVD will ship 1Q06 with dual layer. BluRay (BD) will first ship as a single layer (so far).
Click to expand...

He is right, JVC already have a working BD-25/DVD-9 hybrid disc and are working on a BD-50/DVD-9 version. The difference between this and the HD-DVD-30/DVD-9 discs are that the BD discs are single sided, where HD-DVD has to use both sides since the layers are at the same location and their current max layer is 3.

BD hybrid links:

Ifa pictures: 1, 2, 3, 4

press release

HD-DVD hybrid links:

Ifa pictures: 1, 2

press release

Note that the single sided HD-DVD hybrid is only HD-DVD15/DVD-5.
 
Originally posted by: ArneBjarne
Originally posted by: SGtheArtist
I believe & hope HD-DVD wins simply because of the backward compatibility. This would be more consumer friendly in that people would only have to change their player and begin buying future HD-DVDs while keeping their older DVDs.

I believe the single biggest reason the studios & companies are pushing this new DVD standard is because the current DVD encryption has been broken. Its about control before its about money.
Click to expand...

HD-DVD is neither more nor less backward compatible than Blu-Ray.
Click to expand...


yea the main safety factor with hddvd is that its easily made with current factory setups. including those pirate factories in china. a safe guard in case the movie companies get their way and copy protect and price gouge like greedy bastards... then we can just give em the finger and buy oddly cheap hddvds off ebay and such lol🙂
 
There's a good news item on tomshardware where they get answers from a M$ executive on why M$ and intel chose HD-DVD over blu-ray. I normally despise anything from tom's, but I'll make an exception this time.

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050927_190208.html

The surprise entry in Microsoft's and Intel's list of failures is disc storage capacity. On paper, Blu-ray appears to have the advantage. But the two companies looked beneath the paper: Capacity, said Ribas, "used to be the biggest advantage of Blu-ray, and we believed it. We thought, they'll get 50 GByte BD-ROM discs working, but it's not happening, and it's nowhere in sight. There are not even pilots. It's only in the lab that they are building these discs." With regard to demonstrated capacity, he told us, HD DVD-ROM actually leads BD-ROM by a score of 30 GByte to 25 GByte.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: ArneBjarne
Originally posted by: SGtheArtist
I believe & hope HD-DVD wins simply because of the backward compatibility. This would be more consumer friendly in that people would only have to change their player and begin buying future HD-DVDs while keeping their older DVDs.

I believe the single biggest reason the studios & companies are pushing this new DVD standard is because the current DVD encryption has been broken. Its about control before its about money.
Click to expand...

HD-DVD is neither more nor less backward compatible than Blu-Ray.
Click to expand...

I doubt the veracity of that statement.
HD-DVD players would play current DVDs.
 
Also those guys saying that the 50GB blue ray disks exists, they probably do. 100GB flash Hds exist. That doesn't mean they are as cheap as 100GB regular Hds. You can say something exists, but unless you get it to the point that it can be produced for a price that a consumer will pay for, it doesn't "exist". Sony etc probably spent alot of money making those 50GB blue ray disks, and are probably having trouble finding a way to make them at a low cost (like below 20 dollars per disk), while it sounds like HD-DVD already has sovled the cost issues of 30GB HD disks.

Also, I support Hd-DVD because I hate Atrac, Mds, and Beta.
 
I really hate Sony, but Blu-Ray is techinically better.

Of course, we all know that doesn't mean much...
 
Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
Originally posted by: ArneBjarne
Originally posted by: SGtheArtist
I believe & hope HD-DVD wins simply because of the backward compatibility. This would be more consumer friendly in that people would only have to change their player and begin buying future HD-DVDs while keeping their older DVDs.

I believe the single biggest reason the studios & companies are pushing this new DVD standard is because the current DVD encryption has been broken. Its about control before its about money.
Click to expand...

HD-DVD is neither more nor less backward compatible than Blu-Ray.
Click to expand...

I doubt the veracity of that statement.
HD-DVD players would play current DVDs.
Click to expand...

And so would Blu-Ray players, care to tell me what the difference is then?

 
ArneBjarne, did you even bother to read the Microsoft interview? Why on earth would they make any of that stuff up? What would they have to gain from blatantly lying in print? And if the claims were even partially false, why has no one from the Blu-Ray camp stepped up and publicly disputed any of what MS said? If what they said was false (hybrid disc issues, and no 50GB discs, among other thigs), it wouldn't exactly be very difficult to disprove. The fact that no one has said otherwise should be a clear indication that what MS has said is true.

A bunch of discs in glass cases with a 50GB stamp on them is proof of absolutely nothing.
 
Originally posted by: Pariah
ArneBjarne, did you even bother to read the Microsoft interview? Why on earth would they make any of that stuff up? What would they have to gain from blatantly lying in print? And if the claims were even partially false, why has no one from the Blu-Ray camp stepped up and publicly disputed any of what MS said? If what they said was false (hybrid disc issues, and no 50GB discs, among other thigs), it wouldn't exactly be very difficult to disprove. The fact that no one has said otherwise should be a clear indication that what MS has said is true.

A bunch of discs in glass cases with a 50GB stamp on them is proof of absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...

Because they are backing the competitor and the HD-DVD group has been spreading BS about Blu-Ray before maybe? But hey, if you don't believe the pictures or the people who have been to the shows then maybe you should go yourself. This years Ceatec is right around the cornor so by all means go or call your faviroute magazine who is going. I'm sure they would love to blow this whole conspiracy wide open.
 
You didn't answer the question, well actually, you didn't answer any of them. Why has no one disputed what MS has said?


It's one thing to claim product x is more robust or more technically advanced than product y, and neither side can really prove it. It's an entirely different issue to claim you don't have product y at all in a form ready for production. That is an easily provable point one way or the other. And only a retard would believe just because someone had a mock up of a product on display at a tradeshow that it was an actual working version of the product. Did you see the PS3's that had on display at E3? What was inside those shells? Absolutely nothing. There are probably more nonproduction ready products being demoed at a typical tradeshow than real sellable products.
 
Originally posted by: corkyg
It helps to know who the players are on each side.

The latest move has both Intel and Microsoft moving into the HD-DVD camp. The plan is apparently to have Vista include HD-DVD drivers. Other HD-DVD team members include Toshiba and Universal Studios.

The Blu-Ray camp led by Sony includes, Apple, H-P, and Dell. These are the major players.

Efforts to unite the groups to a common standard have gone no where. Analysts see the market as sticking with current DVD technology until a winner is clear.

Technology does not usually trump business decisions. Remember, Betamax was superior to VHS - then came the Memory Stick.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the Microsoft-Intel team.
Click to expand...
Man do I love the memory stick, propritary crap that tops out at 128mb unless you have a device with "Magic Gate" a "feature" that allows Sony to fix its own damn mistake, Sony is a big f'n joke.
 
Originally posted by: Quasmo
Originally posted by: corkyg
It helps to know who the players are on each side.

The latest move has both Intel and Microsoft moving into the HD-DVD camp. The plan is apparently to have Vista include HD-DVD drivers. Other HD-DVD team members include Toshiba and Universal Studios.

The Blu-Ray camp led by Sony includes, Apple, H-P, and Dell. These are the major players.

Efforts to unite the groups to a common standard have gone no where. Analysts see the market as sticking with current DVD technology until a winner is clear.

Technology does not usually trump business decisions. Remember, Betamax was superior to VHS - then came the Memory Stick.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the Microsoft-Intel team.
Click to expand...
Man do I love the memory stick, propritary crap that tops out at 128mb unless you have a device with "Magic Gate" a "feature" that allows Sony to fix its own damn mistake, Sony is a big f'n joke.
Click to expand...

Wait so Blu-Ray is proprietary right? HD-DVD is not? This is exactly like Beta vs VHS. Proprietary technology may be superior, but in the end it can lose.

Another thing you haven't looked at. CDMA vs GSM. Hands down, CDMA is the superior tehcnology right now. GSM based on old TDMA communications is ancient and inferior in many ways. Yet every other country in this world uses GSM because it is cheap to license. Exceptions include South Korea, Iraq, US, China and Japan. But the future? WCDMA. It's a combination of GSM and CDMA technologies into a royalty-free communications band that will improve connectivity throughout the whole world while providing the high speed features of CDMA. So CDMA is licensed by Qualcomm and that's why it cannot spread so easily. No one wants to pay that huge@$$ fee to an American company, so people go with royalty-free GSM....

I honestly think those who go "omg 50gb vs 30gb.. obviously Blu-Ray wins" should be shot. Then you should be the same people dancing around for Betamax and CDMA. There's a reason I use GSM phones and it's not because the technology is older. 1) I can go overseas, 2) I can switch phones anytime, 3) I get better phones too =P.

30 gb vs 50gb? More than enough. If I only have a friggn 250gb hard drive + 160gb hard drive, how many 50gb discs do I want anyways? I wouldn't be storing 85TB in recordable media and only 400GB on a hard drive. I don't think I would be burning all that much anyways. Sure maybe like 200 - 300gb on recordable media, but nothing more than what my HD won't be holding probably, so I'm sure HD-DVD is enough for most people. Plus the cost factor should weigh in as #1. If the cost/gb is cheaper for HD-DVD then you can just get yourself more discs. It's not THAT bad. Is anyone whining about 4.7GB discs being too small? (with the exception of those who wanna copy DVD-9 movies over and that's simply because you want to cheat the MPAA which I'm fine with.. but obviously youre bitterness is due to illegal factors). 4.7GB is more than enough for me, and even a DVDShrink is pretty damn nice quality. What I'm saying is sure 50gb may be more, but we don't need it. Just like I don't go out to buy friggn DL discs that cost a CRAPLOAD up the @$$ even if I have a DL burner. I just stick with my cheap (well not that cheap.. 40 cents/disc) 50 pack Memorex 8X DVD-Rs (even though I can burn at 16x).
 
I love it when two really big marketing machines battle. Either way don't even consider buying either until December of 06 or so.
 
Originally posted by: Pariah
You didn't answer the question, well actually, you didn't answer any of them. Why has no one disputed what MS has said?


It's one thing to claim product x is more robust or more technically advanced than product y, and neither side can really prove it. It's an entirely different issue to claim you don't have product y at all in a form ready for production. That is an easily provable point one way or the other. And only a retard would believe just because someone had a mock up of a product on display at a tradeshow that it was an actual working version of the product. Did you see the PS3's that had on display at E3? What was inside those shells? Absolutely nothing. There are probably more nonproduction ready products being demoed at a typical tradeshow than real sellable products.
Click to expand...

Like I said, the only thing that is going to answer it adequately in your mind is obviously if you go to a show and see it for yourself, so no, your damn right I'm not going to pay for a trip for you to Seatec in Japan :roll:

You claim we shouldn't trust what all the companies in BDA are saying, yet we should always believe any- and everything that HD-DVD has to say, not only about their own product, but also about the competitor?s solution. Yeah that seems smart. Especially when you have already seen them spreading BS about it before.

I don't just take everything Microsoft has to say about Linux at face value either, why should I?

engadget.com:
The Java platform is mandatory on Blu-ray as it?s the standard for menus/multimedia (i.e. all Blu-ray systems must support JVM)

Though Microsoft has not officially sided with either format, it has a number of long-standing IP cross-licensing deals with Toshiba. HD DVD systems will run Windows CE; the standard is currently the only next-gen optical standard with announced support in Longhorn, and an HD DVD version of the Xbox 360 is rumored for the future.
Click to expand...

Oh yes. They were oh so impartial up until this very point. It's not like they would have an interest in pushing Windows CE and their software for interactive features, iHD, instead of Suns BD-J. Incidentally, iHD was co-developed with Disney, who strangely enough doesn?t seem to have a problem using Blu-Ray and BD-J as well.

Then we have the Blu-Ray hybrid disc, which is ?nowhere in sight? according to MS. Well, to me the setup at JVC?s stand at IFA seems perfect for demonstrating this in action, one BD player and one DVD player swapping the hybrid disc between them. But I guess it is just another one of those mockups with a monkey out back changing the image on screen and making the displays of the players look like they are playing a disc, right?

Finally you say no one is disputing what MS is saying. Care to tell me what engadget states about the size of Blu-Ray discs in their comparison? Can you find me any site or magazine disputing the 50GB BD discs, where it is not a direct quote from MS or other members of the HD-DVD camp?
 
Sony is in big financial trouble, in fact the are under writing the drives for their PS3, just to get this off the ground. Assumming it is adopted like DVDs, Sony will make huge money not just the License agreements but also on Royalties, they get an almost worryless 10-15 years where they can do what ever they want with everything else because they will always have this money coming in. This is a problem because there will be little reason to lower cost on these discs if their kept inflated do to the current License and royalty agreement that SONY may have with the manufacturers. HD-DVD While developed and caretaken by Toshiba is a completly open product and is compatible with curent DVDs. BlueRay would almost sertainly cost us the ability to play CDs (you know the disc most games still come on) due to them neading to include a DVD laser since theirs is incompatible. For Shuttle users and other SFF users this would be horrible.

BlueRay is the new Divx, Betamax, memory stick product. And hopefully like All the products before Sony is on the losing end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top