Blue Cross Blue Shield getting crushed by Obamacare

[glenn1]

Millions of additional people have been insured, health care cost inflation has been lower than average, and the law has ended up costing less than initially projected.

If that's a 'bad law', what would your definition of a good law be?

Exactly what I've laid out before.

1. Repeal the tax subsidy for employer provided health insurance plans, net savings approximately $250 billion in lost federal tax revenue (2013 figures) or ~$800 per capita given 310MM Americans.
2. Use the savings from #1 to 100% subsidize true catastrophic insurance for all Americans, deductible amount TBD but $5,000 is probably a reasonable target.
3. Set up universal HSA accounts for all. Use the subsidies from the former ACA to fund the account for low income individuals so their out-of-pocket costs are minimal or reduced. This account will be used to handle all routine care plus non-emergency care not covered by the universal catastrophic plan. Give people incentives to use the funds judiciously and not seek care for any trivial problem, thus reducing costs in the system by reduced demand for unneeded care.
4. For the truly poor and indigent, set up local clinics providing free or low cost primary care services like immunizations, sick visits, etc.

 

[fskimospy]

Exactly what I've laid out before.

1. Repeal the tax subsidy for employer provided health insurance plans, net savings approximately $250 billion in lost federal tax revenue (2013 figures) or ~$800 per capita given 310MM Americans.
2. Use the savings from #1 to 100% subsidize true catastrophic insurance for all Americans, deductible amount TBD but $5,000 is probably a reasonable target.
3. Set up universal HSA accounts for all. Use the subsidies from the former ACA to fund the account for low income individuals so their out-of-pocket costs are minimal or reduced. This account will be used to handle all routine care plus non-emergency care not covered by the universal catastrophic plan. Give people incentives to use the funds judiciously and not seek care for any trivial problem, thus reducing costs in the system by reduced demand for unneeded care.
4. For the truly poor and indigent, set up local clinics providing free or low cost primary care services like immunizations, sick visits, etc.

I would be fine with a plan along these lines, however I imagine your cost estimates are way off. Catastrophic insurance with a $5,000 deductible is going to cost way more than $67 a month per person.

That, and can you imagine the nationwide freakout when everyone suddenly loses their employer based health insurance? Considering the meltdown that came along with the ACA that really didn't affect employer insurance much it's hard to see how something like this could be passed.

 

[Anubis]

Obamacare is to collapse the market and force you to face the obvious.
You cannot maintain current policy... and you cannot go back.
The only way forward is single payer. Is it not?

single payer has always been the only option
people just didn't want to hear it. we will get there eventually but it wont be soon



also - insurance as a whole needs reform - denying claims while making billions in profit needs to be punishable by death

 

[Strk]

Good. Can we go single payer now? Please?

No, we need to keep pretending like our previous system was awesome!

 

[glenn1]

I would be fine with a plan along these lines, however I imagine your cost estimates are way off. Catastrophic insurance with a $5,000 deductible is going to cost way more than $67 a month per person.

That, and can you imagine the nationwide freakout when everyone suddenly loses their employer based health insurance? Considering the meltdown that came along with the ACA that really didn't affect employer insurance much it's hard to see how something like this could be passed.

i'm not an insurance exec so I don't know what the all-in costs would be. I'm guessing that if it's truly universal the costs will display a normal curve - high costs assumed by some will be offset by the minimal costs by very young children for example. If anyone has data on what the true per-person average cost would be I'd be very happy for that information.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

From my link the primary cause is that it's hard for insurance companies to draw up contracts and make arrangements with doctors in a bunch of different states with different populations that all work well under a single insurance plan. The demographics and doctor costs for New York are going to be much different than the costs in rural Louisiana. How do you make a competitive plan that covers both? It's hard.

Oh, I'm sure, but often hard things are worth making happen. The separate networks are hand-in hand-with the separate pools. And again, the more insurance companies can pick and choose who and where they cover, the less insurance-y that insurance is. Taking that to it's extreme puts it right back to all costs being incurred by the individual. The other extreme is single-payer, and one of the reasons single-payer works well is because it's inherently single market. It may really be the reason.

 

[SP33Demon]

What I find amusing is that conservatives complain no matter what the circumstances. If insurance companies are making a lot of money it's because of that damn ACA where the government is lining the pockets of those rich, lobbying insurers. If insurance companies are losing money suddenly conservatives weep for them because that damn ACA is bankrupting the poor helpless insurance companies.

Once you realize that their reasoning starts with the ACA being bad and works backwards instead of the rational approach of doing it the opposite way it all makes much more sense.

So you just basically summarized that ACA is shit. Insuring millions more people is going to get passed down to people who are paying for them. Thanks, now that we know that, can you personally paypal me the % I'm losing to pay for your friends? Since you don't like money, and since you allegedly make "six figures", a cool $1000 isn't going to hurt your personal finances. So PM me when you're ready to send me the free money. Help a brother out. I'm guessing that you won't practice what you preach.

 

[SP33Demon]

The abomination we have today is the same abomination we had then. The private health insurance industry needs a stake through the heart.

Agreed, except now the abomination is now powered by a fined mandate of money owed to them/government if we don't pay. And they just expanded this mandate to the entire country. Fucking horrible.

 

[IronWing]

So you just basically summarized that ACA is shit. Insuring millions more people is going to get passed down to people who are paying for them. Thanks, now that we know that, can you personally paypal me the % I'm losing to pay for your friends? Since you don't like money, and since you allegedly make "six figures", a cool $1000 isn't going to hurt your personal finances. So PM me when you're ready to send me the free money. Help a brother out. I'm guessing that you won't practice what you preach.

You seem to spend a lot of time thinking like a parasite.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

So you just basically summarized that ACA is shit. Insuring millions more people is going to get passed down to people who are paying for them. Thanks, now that we know that, can you personally paypal me the % I'm losing to pay for your friends? Since you don't like money, and since you allegedly make "six figures", a cool $1000 isn't going to hurt your personal finances. So PM me when you're ready to send me the free money. Help a brother out. I'm guessing that you won't practice what you preach.

That is how insurance is supposed to work. Either you are paying for someone else's healthcare or someone else is paying for yours.

 

[dank69]

So you just basically summarized that ACA is shit. Insuring millions more people is going to get passed down to people who are paying for them. Thanks, now that we know that, can you personally paypal me the % I'm losing to pay for your friends? Since you don't like money, and since you allegedly make "six figures", a cool $1000 isn't going to hurt your personal finances. So PM me when you're ready to send me the free money. Help a brother out. I'm guessing that you won't practice what you preach.

No. He summarized why you look like a fool. You literally said the ACA sucks if it hurts Insurance companies and it sucks if it helps insurance companies. The logical conclusion from this is that Insurance companies must make the exact same amount of money as they did pre-ACA. If they make a single cent more or less, it hurts the middle class. Lol. You are stupid and you should feel bad.

 

[IronWing]

Agreed, except now the abomination is now powered by a fined mandate of money owed to them/government if we don't pay. And they just expanded this mandate to the entire country. Fucking horrible.

You won't find me supporting the private insurance industry driven obamacare plan. Single payer is the only reasonable proposal for healthcare insurance reform we have seen. Otherwise, just socialize the whole healthcare industry.

 

[Subyman]

You may have to leave United in 2017, they're getting crushed as well. How did you "save a ton" when they also raised premiums? *cough cough*


http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/19/news/economy/unitedhealth-obamacare/

I saved nearly $200 a month switching to United Health this year. I'm not sure what your link has to do with my specific rate. They may have raised their premiums over 2014 levels, but that is expected. Their rate was the same or a bit less than the rates I paid before Obamacare, but the coverage is slightly better (I get maternity care LOL.)

FWIW, I'm not really for or against ACA. I like how ACA sets standard plans federally and makes clear definitions of benefits and policies (like you can get a 3 person family plan now, a mom, dad, and a child used to not be a family in IL...) I don't think it is going far enough though. IMO it would be best to have health insurance decoupled from profit. The capitalist incentive doesn't always align with what is best for patients. I'd also like to see government price controls on drugs, but that is a huge can of worms.

 

[LPCTech]

The abomination we have today is the same abomination we had then. The private health insurance industry needs a stake through the heart.

This. There is no need for their existence.

 

[glenn1]

That is how insurance is supposed to work. Either you are paying for someone else's healthcare or someone else is paying for yours.

That's only true at point-in-time. Insurance is about risk reduction via cost smoothing - you pay steady premiums periodically so you don't get hit with a huge cost all at once while paying a small fee for the service. Therefore the premiums you pay over the life of the policy *should* roughly correspond to what your expected costs would be. What he is complaining about is that people are being subsidized by ACA so they don't pay their full expected costs. This disregards the fact the poor were being subsidized before ACA, but is a relevant fact. You may feel it's not a legitimate point because we should be giving subsidies to the poor, but it's factual.

 

[SP33Demon]

No. He summarized why you look like a fool. You literally said the ACA sucks if it hurts Insurance companies and it sucks if it helps insurance companies. The logical conclusion from this is that Insurance companies must make the exact same amount of money as they did pre-ACA. If they make a single cent more or less, it hurts the middle class. Lol. You are stupid and you should feel bad.

He summarized that conservatives are weeping for insurance companies crushed by obamacare which is false. We are weeping for our own wallets as a result of ACA crushing ins companies and we the people are footing the bill. We are weeping for having to pay for millions more people who don't deserve healthcare because they are too lazy to work (no, healthcare isn't a right). We are weeping for the people who never wanted coverage in the first place and are now forced to buy a product against their will. The old system encouraged people to work, now we have proposals in this thread to take that subsidy away and give people something they never earned. It's ludicrous. You should be ashamed that we have turned into lazy, fat, diabetic sorry sacks of shit. You should be ashamed for your country and be shaming the unemployed into working. Instead, you throw stones like a little child and pretend that insurance companies are the evil ones while the government is our savior (hint: they are a revolving door entity one and the same). You are a delusional sad sack of shit.

 

[SP33Demon]

You won't find me supporting the private insurance industry driven obamacare plan. Single payer is the only reasonable proposal for healthcare insurance reform we have seen. Otherwise, just socialize the whole healthcare industry.

So you trust the government over private insurance industry? They are the same thing, and you seriously want our quality of care to drop to levels of Britain or Canada or even our own VA? No way. I'm willing to pay a little more for better care; I'm not willing to pay for millions of other slackers to get covered. Last I checked guaranteed healthcare was not a constitutional right and had to be earned by working.

 

[IronWing]

He summarized that conservatives are weeping for insurance companies crushed by obamacare which is false. We are weeping for our own wallets as a result of ACA crushing ins companies and we the people are footing the bill. We are weeping for having to pay for millions more people who don't deserve healthcare because they are too lazy to work (no, healthcare isn't a right). We are weeping for the people who never wanted coverage in the first place and are now forced to buy a product against their will. The old system encouraged people to work, now we have proposals in this thread to take that subsidy away and give people something they never earned. It's ludicrous. You should be ashamed that we have turned into lazy, fat, diabetic sorry sacks of shit. You should be ashamed for your country and be shaming the unemployed into working. Instead, you throw stones like a little child and pretend that insurance companies are the evil ones while the government is our savior (hint: they are a revolving door entity one and the same). You are a delusional sad sack of shit.

A single payer system will unleash the American entrepreneurial spirit like nothing else I can think of. People will be free to start new businesses w/o fear that their family members may die due to lack of healthcare coverage. Being broke ain't so bad. Being dead isn't so hot.

 

[mizzou]

I'm happy about the concept of Obamacare....the results are more of the same.

Premiums have gotten much much worse...to the point that I pay so much money, now I DONT want to go to the doctor!

That is the opposite effect. Essentially those on Medicaid are the only ones insulated form these issues.

 

[IronWing]

Last I checked guaranteed healthcare was not a constitutional right and had to be earned by working.

We can change this. And likely will. You see, not all bought into the Reagan happy-head frat boy version of capitalism that was all the rage when your pimply face popped on the scene. Reasonable folk can look at the private insurance insurance industry for what it is: a parasite sucking the life blood out of our economy.

 

[Subyman]

That's only true at point-in-time. Insurance is about risk reduction via cost smoothing - you pay steady premiums periodically so you don't get hit with a huge cost all at once while paying a small fee for the service. Therefore the premiums you pay over the life of the policy *should* roughly correspond to what your expected costs would be. What he is complaining about is that people are being subsidized by ACA so they don't pay their full expected costs. This disregards the fact the poor were being subsidized before ACA, but is a relevant fact. You may feel it's not a legitimate point because we should be giving subsidies to the poor, but it's factual.

ACA helped a lot of small business owners and workers who couldn't get employer coverage, made too much for Medicaid, or couldn't afford it outright. There was a void of people who worked hard but couldn't pay the 5-12k per year for coverage. Those extra people being covered should have brought more stability to the insurance programs. There was a weird transition while people moved to the ACA policies.

I'm curious to see how this moves forward. If we get a democrat, we will see more time for ACA to stabilize. If we get a repub, I have no clue what they plan to do. All of them want to repel it but they haven't outlined how their plan would be demonstrably different than ACA while still providing coverage to the people that ACA was created to help. I'd hate to see the millions of people that couldn't get coverage before ACA be thrown back to the wolves.

 

[elitejp]

So you trust the government over private insurance industry? They are the same thing, and you seriously want our quality of care to drop to levels of Britain or Canada or even our own VA? No way. I'm willing to pay a little more for better care; I'm not willing to pay for millions of other slackers to get covered. Last I checked guaranteed healthcare was not a constitutional right and had to be earned by working.

Thats the problem. Anytime you take away the incentive for someone to push themsleves to get ahead in a field by capping their income they will pursue a different field. So what you are left with is a shortage of doctors and an excess of patients, and like you pointed out earlier the same procedures may cost more here in the US but the chance of having it done safer and more successful also increase.

 

[fskimospy]

So you trust the government over private insurance industry? They are the same thing, and you seriously want our quality of care to drop to levels of Britain or Canada or even our own VA? No way. I'm willing to pay a little more for better care; I'm not willing to pay for millions of other slackers to get covered. Last I checked guaranteed healthcare was not a constitutional right and had to be earned by working.

Funny, the WHO ranked both of those systems as better than ours:

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...zations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

Same with the Commonwealth Fund:
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

You never seem to run out of stupid things to say.

 

[SP33Demon]

We can change this. And likely will. You see, not all bought into the Reagan happy-head frat boy version of capitalism that was all the rage when your pimply face popped on the scene. Reasonable folk can look at the private insurance insurance industry for what it is: a parasite sucking the life blood out of our economy.

Except it's a fact that our healthcare is of higher quality than Canada and Britain. We are number 1 in the world in responsiveness (defined as speed of services, choice of doctors and quality of amenities). In fact, their citizens sometimes come here to get treated because theirs sucks so bad. Yet we want to be more like them? Of course, because we have come to embrace mediocrity like them.

 

[Subyman]

Funny, the WHO ranked both of those systems as better than ours:

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...zations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

Same with the Commonwealth Fund:
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

You never seem to run out of stupid things to say.

Hey! We are two places ahead of Cuba!