Blown Capacitors

[imported_hscorpio]

My trusty old epox 8rda+ died on me! I noticed some weird issues recently but I had no idea it was the capacitors causing them. Today my motherboard started beebing like crazy, so I unplugged it real fast. I made the mistake of rebooting it to try and enter the bios and go back to default settings (normally overclocked) and the cpu temp was over 80 celsius and rising before I unplugged again.

So I opened up the case and peeked around and then noticed that almost all of my caps were blown/leaking! The ones by the Vcore regulator were really bad.

So, assuming I didn't fry my cpu or anything else, I'm wandering if I can replace the mobo with a similar nforce board and still use my win XP installation? I know its possible to replace the caps but that sounds like a pita and it will cost nearly as much as a new board.

Im really worried that I won't be able to get the exact same overclock so windows will think I have a different cpu and mobo, which I assume will cause problems?

Anyone have any experience with this.

 

[John]

Yes, if you get a board with a similar chipset you will boot into Windows just fine. However if you get BSOD's you can always do a repair install.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

EPoX did a repair on mine for the cost of shipping. I'm not sure if it was under warranty at the time or not. It might be worth looking into.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: John
Yes, if you get a board with a similar chipset you will boot into Windows just fine. However if you get BSOD's you can always do a repair install.

If I upgrade to a new cpu and board can I still do a repair install. I just need to get access to my files that are locked in my xp account. I'm not seeing very many choices of nforce2 boards out there and if I'd just as soon upgrade if possible.

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
EPoX did a repair on mine for the cost of shipping. I'm not sure if it was under warranty at the time or not. It might be worth looking into.

Hmm I guess I can contact them. The boards over 3 years old and I was overclocked so I just assumed the warranty route was not an option.

 

[Seekermeister]

I know that you said that you don't want to repair the motherboard, but just in case you change your mind:

http://www.motherboardrepair.com/faq.do

 

[SparkyJJO]

I could repair the board for you for the cost of parts and shipping both ways. I'll do the labor free. I've recapped about half a dozen or so motherboards. PM me if you are interested at all.

 

[Operandi]

I don't think you'll be able to find any good nForce2 boards anymore.

You can either replace the caps yourself or send it into Badcaps.net.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
I know that you said that you don't want to repair the motherboard, but just in case you change your mind:

http://www.motherboardrepair.com/faq.do

Thanks. I found a detailed article on aoa forums specifically for my board here. I'm just not too confident with a soldering iron, and i only have a cheap radio shack iron that i doubt is adequate for the task.

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
I could repair the board for you for the cost of parts and shipping both ways. I'll do the labor free. I've recapped about half a dozen or so motherboards. PM me if you are interested at all.

Wow thats very nice of you! I'll have to see how much the parts and shipping would be.

Originally posted by: Operandi
I don't think you'll be able to find any good nForce2 boards anymore.

You can either replace the caps yourself or send it into Badcaps.net.

I found an 8rda+ from europe for about $85, just not sure if its new or what. badcaps didn't list any capkits for epox.

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: hscorpio
I found an 8rda+ from europe for about $85, just not sure if its new or what. badcaps didn't list any capkits for epox.

That just means it isn't one of more famous boards known for failing. You might be able to find the caps on your own from sources like Mouse or Digikey. If you can't find the values and sizes you need on your own you can contact the owner of Badcaps, he can sell you high-quality replacements in harder to find sizes.

 

[UltraPenguin]

My 8rda+ also developed bad caps after 1.5 years. Kinda annoyed at Epox for using junk caps just to save a few dollars.

At least Epox has a 3 year warranty on the mobo. I RMA mine to Epox, took about 3 weeks to get it back.

 

[Oyeve]

I am a little curious as to why most of the caps blew. I have had a cap or 2 blow but not most at one time. If you decide to get another simular mobo and if you have a spare PSU I would try that for first boot.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

I bet Epox will exchange the board even past warrenty. Talk nice and they will respond in kind.
Several MB providers will do the same.

What causes bad caps? http://www.badcaps.net/causes/

...Galvanized

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: UltraPenguin
My 8rda+ also developed bad caps after 1.5 years. Kinda annoyed at Epox for using junk caps just to save a few dollars.

At least Epox has a 3 year warranty on the mobo. I RMA mine to Epox, took about 3 weeks to get it back.

They didn't use junk capacitors, at least as far as I understand it. Someone at the capacitor manufacturer stole an incomplete electrolye formula from another company, and multiple companies soon started making millions of these things, and they were distributed to appliance makers all over the world before it was realized that the things were faulty.


I too had an out-of-warranty board recapped by Epox. I don't remember if it was an nForce2 board or a KT266A.

 

[UltraPenguin]

They didn't use junk capacitors, at least as far as I understand it. Someone at the capacitor manufacturer stole an incomplete electrolye formula from another company, and multiple companies soon started making millions of these things, and they were distributed to appliance makers all over the world before it was realized that the things were faulty.

The faulty capacitor problem was known for a while before Epox manufactured my board. Yet, they still used the faulty caps. By then, the industry would have know which caps/manufacture were faulty. I also have a Epox Nforce 2 board with bad caps.

I've seen some mobo advertise that they use "High quality Japanese Caps" on their retail boxes now.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
I bet Epox will exchange the board even past warrenty. Talk nice and they will respond in kind.
Several MB providers will do the same.

What causes bad caps? http://www.badcaps.net/causes/

...Galvanized

I'm going to call them on monday. I hope the fact that I have removed the stock passive heatsink on the NB and replaced it with a vantec will not be a problem. I'm only about 5 months out of warranty.

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: UltraPenguin
My 8rda+ also developed bad caps after 1.5 years. Kinda annoyed at Epox for using junk caps just to save a few dollars.

At least Epox has a 3 year warranty on the mobo. I RMA mine to Epox, took about 3 weeks to get it back.

They didn't use junk capacitors, at least as far as I understand it. Someone at the capacitor manufacturer stole an incomplete electrolye formula from another company, and multiple companies soon started making millions of these things, and they were distributed to appliance makers all over the world before it was realized that the things were faulty.


I too had an out-of-warranty board recapped by Epox. I don't remember if it was an nForce2 board or a KT266A.

That's a BS explanation.

The problem is too wide spread, and though to lesser extent still going today.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Operandi,

Electrolytic caps will continue to go bad for several reasons.

1-They all have a rated sevice life. It could be as short as 2k hours or upwards of 10k hours.

2-Working temperature is the number one enemy of long cap life.

3-Dirty/high ripple voltage from poor PSUs works caps harder than necessary.

4-Even if the electrolyte is clean and of proper formulation it can be short changed. The additive package that stabilizes it is expensive, so it might be elliminated or only a low percentage used.

5-The aluminum foil might be contaminated with trace elements, like copper, that cause hydrogen gassing when the copper reacts with the electrolyte over time.

RubyCon states that for every 10C drop from rated temp, cap life doubles. So a quality cap rated at 85C/2k hours when working at 65C will live 8k hours.

Polymer caps are now being used on many mainboards and most upper tier VGA cards.


...Galvanized

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Operandi,

Electrolytic caps will continue to go bad for several reasons.

1-They all have a rated sevice life. It could be as short as 2k hours or upwards of 10k hours.

2-Working temperature is the number one enemy of long cap life.

3-Dirty/high ripple voltage from poor PSUs works caps harder than necessary.

4-Even if the electrolyte is clean and of proper formulation it can be short changed. The additive package that stabilizes it is expensive, so it might be elliminated or only a low percentage used.

5-The aluminum foil might be contaminated with trace elements, like copper, that cause hydrogen gassing when the copper reacts with the electrolyte over time.

RubyCon states that for every 10C drop from rated temp, cap life doubles. So a quality cap rated at 85C/2k hours when working at 65C will live 8k hours.

Polymer caps are now being used on many mainboards and most upper tier VGA cards.


...Galvanized

Thanks but why are you telling me what I already know? Good caps from high-quality manufactures rarely go bad (I've never one), it's the cheap crap from (low quality) Chinese manufactures that are causing the problem.

Also Polymer caps have been used on VGA cards for 4-5 years now, many times on sub $50 cards (ATi at least).

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: Operandi

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Operandi,

Electrolytic caps will continue to go bad for several reasons.

1-They all have a rated sevice life. It could be as short as 2k hours or upwards of 10k hours.

2-Working temperature is the number one enemy of long cap life.

3-Dirty/high ripple voltage from poor PSUs works caps harder than necessary.

4-Even if the electrolyte is clean and of proper formulation it can be short changed. The additive package that stabilizes it is expensive, so it might be elliminated or only a low percentage used.

5-The aluminum foil might be contaminated with trace elements, like copper, that cause hydrogen gassing when the copper reacts with the electrolyte over time.

RubyCon states that for every 10C drop from rated temp, cap life doubles. So a quality cap rated at 85C/2k hours when working at 65C will live 8k hours.

Polymer caps are now being used on many mainboards and most upper tier VGA cards.


...Galvanized

Thanks but why are you telling me what I already know? Good caps from high-quality manufactures rarely go bad (I've never one), it's the cheap crap from (low quality) Chinese manufactures that are causing the problem.

Also Polymer caps have been used on VGA cards for 4-5 years now, many times on sub $50 cards (ATi at least).

Yes, there as been a trickle down of Polymers with VGA cards.

Why does the high end Sound Blaster use crappy JamiCon electrolytics?
Answer: Because they are cheaper.

And ECUUUUSE ME for stating something you already know


...Galvanized

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Yes, there as been a trickle down of Polymers with VGA cards.

Why does the high end Sound Blaster use crappy JamiCon electrolytics?
Answer: Because they are cheaper.

And ECUUUUSE ME for stating something you already know


...Galvanized

Cheaper and because caps of that vaule/size are very unlikely to fail.

Maybe better caps would yield beter sound quality?

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Operandi,

Read this thread in total. Since Trodas is a silence freak, he has very little case air flow.
This results in higher than normal case temps. http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1659

Excuse me if you have read it already.


...Galvanized

 

[TekDemon]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
I could repair the board for you for the cost of parts and shipping both ways. I'll do the labor free. I've recapped about half a dozen or so motherboards. PM me if you are interested at all.

Dude...for real?! That's crazy...

I replaced 2 of the caps on my Epox 4G4A+ and it took me all night...especially since i didn't have anything to suck off the original solder, lol.

Nor anything to help me remove the caps...so I used pliers and just pulled.

And then a while later the raid function went crazy, probably because some other cap went bad, but I can't figure out which caps is the culprit =(

 

[bruceb]

When you used Pliers and Pulled, there is a good chance you may have damaged a Plated Thru Hole
A lot of MoBo's are Multilayer .. with Foil Traces in between where you can not see them.
Best way to replace caps is to cut the lead, then from the Bottom Side, use a Low Wattage Grounded
tip soldering iron and a Tweezer to pull out the remainder of the lead .. use a solder sucker (antistatic type)
to clean out the hole, then install new cap & solder ... or if you have the room, cut the cap on the top side,
make a small Loop, then put a tiny Hook on the end of the new cap .. place thru the Loop, Crimp, Solder
It will work very well, as long as the wire leads are not much longer than the one you removed

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

You best read or post in the Epox Forum over at badcaps.net.
If you register, give Galvanized the referral please.