Bloomfield and X58 vs. Lynnfield and P55 - a guide to help you choose what's best for you.

CurseTheSky

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Oct 21, 2006
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I've seen numerous posts basically asking the same question recently. I'm dedicating this one post to answering that question for everybody. Please don't feel that I'm insulting you for asking this question in another post previously or singling you out - that's not my intent.

Anand, Gary, and others have posted several great articles with details about Lynnfield (i5 750 / i7 8XX), and comparisons of Lynnfield vs. Bloomfield (i7 9XX). This post is just a summary, so please read full reviews here, here, here, and here. Please correct me if any of my information is incorrect.

You should choose i7 9XX (Bloomfield) and X58 (LGA 1366) if:
[*]You plan to run multiple GPUs in SLI or Crossfire and want the maximum performance possible (16x + 16x PCI-E bandwidth on X58 vs. 8X + 8X bandwidth on most mid-high end P55)
[*]You want to overclock your processor as far as possible WITHOUT increasing voltage
[*]You want to overclock your processor as high as possible for "extreme" benchmarking or record setting (6 GHz+)
[*]You want the more memory bandwidth with triple channel DDR3 (NOTE: only negligible gains in real world performance over dual channel DDR3; primarily increases synthetic benchmark performance)
[*]You want a cheaper solution to cramming as much memory into your computer as possible (6 slots on X58; roughly $110 for 6GB DDR3 vs. 4 slots on most P55 boards; roughly $80 for 4GB DDR3)
[*]You want the possibility of buying a 6 core processor with hyperthreading support sometime in 2010 (Gulftown; possibly very expensive)
[*]You need a greater number of PCI-E lanes for expansion cards (storage controllers or RAM disks in addition to graphics cards; x16 + x16 + x8 on some X58 vs. x16 + x4 or x8 + x8 + x4 on some P55)
[*]Low power consumption isn't your most important goal
[*]Lowest overall system cost isn't your biggest concern ("low"-mid range X58 and i7 920 is still comparable in price to mid-high range P55 and i7 860)
[*]Stock processor performance is not your most important goal


You should choose i5 750 / i7 8XX (Lynnfield) and P55 (LGA 1156) if:
[*]You want your system to draw less power both at idle and at full load
[*]You plan to run your processor at stock speeds and want the greatest performance possible (Lynnfield turbo boost beats Bloomfield turbo boost)
[*]You want to keep the overall system cost as low as possible by buying a low-mid range P55 board ($100-130), i5 750 ($159 at Microcenter / $200 elsewhere; lacks hyperthreading) and dual channel DDR3
[*]You want the slight, perhaps negligible, performance advantage of Lynnfield's integrated PCI-E controller
[*]You plan to use a single graphics card, or don't care about squeezing every possible frame per second out of your system using dual graphics cards.
[*]You only plan to do reasonable overclocks (under 5-6 GHz), not record setting suicide runs
[*]You want to keep costs as low as possible (i5 750) and DO NOT need hyperthreading for greater multi-threading support (4 cores on i5 750 vs. 4 cores + HT for 8 total on i7 8XX and i7 9XX)

There's a lot more I could say about the subject, but if you need to know more, your best bet is to go through the wealth of information in Anand and Gary's articles. They have dozens of graphs, examples, and real world performance comparisons that should eliminate any confusion or doubt you may have.

In the end, you can't go wrong with either one. Bloomfield and X58 seem to be a better "extreme" platform, while Lynnfield and P55 are a much better midrange solution. That's not to say that a Lynnfield system can't keep up with Bloomfield; the only time Bloomfield really starts to excel in real world performance is when using multiple ultra-high-end graphics cards in SLI / Crossfire or overclocking to the extreme. With that said, it's somewhat silly to buy a high-end Lynnfield system ($200+ on a P55 motherboard, etc.) when Bloomfield and X58 will be priced similarly - unless your primary goal is power consumption and "stock" speed (turbo boost). X58 may stay "current" a bit longer with the 6 core, 32nm Gulftown coming out sometime in 2010, but who knows for sure what they have planned for either socket? Chances are Sandy Bridge will make both sockets obsolete in the not-too-distant future (2011?) anyway.
 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
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Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
[*]You only plan to do reasonable overclocks, not record setting suicide runs

Just because one may be getting 4+GHz on a bloomfield doesnt make it unreasonable. I would argue a 4.4 GHz OC is perfectly reasonable as long as you can cool it and keep vcore/QPI VTT under 1.4 V. I doubt any 1156 chip could do this. So if you want any good OC at all, reasonable or not, I would say 1366 is the best bet. By good I mean 4+ GHz.

I would consider an unreasonable OC to be one that isnt stable, requires unsafe voltages, or runs way too hot, such as cetain suicide runs.

Still, good guide, well made points and organiztion! Recomend for sticky, after you correct the sligth mistake :D
 

CurseTheSky

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Oct 21, 2006
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Originally posted by: Shmee
Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
[*]You only plan to do reasonable overclocks, not record setting suicide runs

Just because one may be getting 4+GHz on a bloomfield doesnt make it unreasonable. I would argue a 4.4 GHz OC is perfectly reasonable as long as you can cool it and keep vcore/QPI VTT under 1.4 V. I doubt any 1156 chip could do this. So if you want any good OC at all, reasonable or not, I would say 1366 is the best bet. By good I mean 4+ GHz.

I would consider an unreasonable OC to be one that isnt stable, requires unsafe voltages, or runs way too hot, such as cetain suicide runs.

Still, good guide, well made points and organiztion! Recomend for sticky, after you correct the sligth mistake :D

My intent with that point wasn't that all "good" Bloomfield overclocks are unreasonable, but rather than it's very difficult (impossible?) for Lynnfield to achieve an "unreasonable" overclock as high as Bloomfield. For example, the extremists are generally hitting 6 GHz with Bloomfield, while the wall seems to be around 5-5.5 GHz with Lynnfield. Maybe that'll all change with the next Lynnfield revision (similar to i7 920 D0s). Your argument makes sense, but I'm not sure how to condense / reword that to better capture my intent.
 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
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ok, makes sense, though I am sure with the voltages they are using for those OC's are unreasonable for either processor. On a side note, I too would like to see a new, better OCing lynnfield stepping, I think this would make a big difference for budget OC'ers, and would bridge the gap for enthusiasts between x58 and D0's and the p45 and E0's.
 

Ben90

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Jun 14, 2009
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You need as much multi-threading support as possible (4 cores + hyperthreading for 8 threads total; NOTE: Lynnfield i7 8XX also supports hyperthreading)

I think this one should be pulled imho or maybe find some way to make a point that the 750s do not include HT

You want the synthetic benchmark performance advantage of triple channel DDR3 memory (only negligible gains in real world performance over dual channel DDR3)

Maybe reword to something like: Your application needs absolute maximum performance out of your memory (only negligible gains in real world performance over dual channel DDR3)


Even if these changes were not made i vote for sticky
 

CurseTheSky

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Oct 21, 2006
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Originally posted by: Ben90
You need as much multi-threading support as possible (4 cores + hyperthreading for 8 threads total; NOTE: Lynnfield i7 8XX also supports hyperthreading)

I think this one should be pulled imho or maybe find some way to make a point that the 750s do not include HT

You want the synthetic benchmark performance advantage of triple channel DDR3 memory (only negligible gains in real world performance over dual channel DDR3)

Maybe reword to something like: Your application needs absolute maximum performance out of your memory (only negligible gains in real world performance over dual channel DDR3)


Even if these changes were not made i vote for sticky

I changed both of these around to reflect my intent a bit better. I included the bold-faced note in the line about triple channel memory because I really want to drive home the point that triple channel DOES NOT offer a performance advantage that most of us would notice. It's primarily advantageous in benchmarks and programs that are highly dependent on memory bandwidth.
 

a123456

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Oct 26, 2006
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Good post. It outlines the basic difference between the 2 platforms.

But why is the "You need as much multi-threading support as possible" in the advantage section for P55? At best, it's equal with 4 cores/8 threads. At worst, it's 4 core/4 threads, which would fall behind.
 

rolodomo

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Mar 19, 2004
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Great list, but I think the focus on multiple GPU issue is too narrow. The extra x58 pci 2.0 lanes provide flexibility with add-on cards in general. E.g., want to drop in the latest and greatest 8x RAID or RAM disk card, but you already have two GPU(s).? Not really a problem (e.g., 8x 8x 8x).
 

CurseTheSky

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Oct 21, 2006
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Originally posted by: a123456
Good post. It outlines the basic difference between the 2 platforms.

But why is the "You need as much multi-threading support as possible" in the advantage section for P55? At best, it's equal with 4 cores/8 threads. At worst, it's 4 core/4 threads, which would fall behind.

Good catch - it was originally in both lists, but I removed it from the Bloomfield list and made an addition to the Lynnfield list (You want to keep costs as low as possible (i5 750) and DO NOT need hyperthreading for greater multi-threading support (4 cores on i5 750 vs. 4 cores + HT for 8 total on i7 8XX and i7 9XX)) to avoid confusion, then completely forgot about the duplicate in the Lynnfield list.
 

CurseTheSky

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Originally posted by: rolodomo
Great list, but I think the focus on multiple GPU issue is too narrow. The extra x58 pci 2.0 lanes provide flexibility with add-on cards in general. E.g., want to drop in the latest and greatest 8x RAID or RAM disk card, but you already have two GPU(s).? Not really a problem (e.g., 8x 8x 8x).

I added a new item under Bloomfield to reflect this. I left the first item alone since I really want to emphasize the SLI / Crossfire performance - it's really the biggest reason to get X58 in my opinion. They two items somewhat redundant, but I think it gets the point across.
 

Ben90

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Jun 14, 2009
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Originally posted by: rolodomo
Great list, but I think the focus on multiple GPU issue is too narrow. The extra x58 pci 2.0 lanes provide flexibility with add-on cards in general. E.g., want to drop in the latest and greatest 8x RAID or RAM disk card, but you already have two GPU(s).? Not really a problem (e.g., 8x 8x 8x).

Agreed for the one person with a RAMdisk card or a RAID looking at 1156

It is nice to have this information on here though because im sure it will catch someone off guard

*edit*
lol@ making a good list OP; now everyone is like throwing suggestions left and right...so much work for you

It is really really great info though; this needs to get sticky'd because 1 in 10 threads are people arguing if the price/what u get from p55 is worth it, they have a lot of false information i.e. RAM for 1156 is magically cheaper, even though 1136 runs dual channel better than p55
 

Jasonp

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Oct 1, 2009
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hey guys. long time lurker here (i'm talking years) and i finally have something to ask...lol...

I really like the power consumption on the 860 and have been favouring it quite a bit for my next purchase but I still have this nagging doubt that perhaps an 920 is the better buy (for me).

I've been looking at this bandwidth issue and wondering if it even is an issue in regards to USB 3 and Sata6g coming down the pipe. Will this be an issue on the 1156 platform with a single card? Reason I ask if it is even an issue is I am wondering that you could drop a new motherboard in when this comes available and still use the 920 or 860 or if a complete upgrade will be needed? I do not know if sli is in my future but you never know. The real concern i have is that I buy into one of these and 3 months from now USB 3 / sata boards become available and say a couple months later sata 6 drives arrive (or I raid a couple drives...)...and all of a sudden the pcie lanes are packed. I have no issues buying another board for these features but is the chip the right choice?

I've been searching for info on this and some very light touching of the subject comes up but nothing solid.

Thoughts?
 

Bleser

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Sep 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
[*]You plan to use a single graphics card, or don't care about squeezing every possible frame per second out of your system using dual graphics cards.

I would reference the fact that this "every possible" frame per second is a 2%-7% performance difference at extreme resolutions that most of us don't run under. In the 1680x1050 or even 1920x1080 resolutions, the difference is so small in fact that you could throw away the difference to test variances. Also note in the article that it said the difference between the two was never noticeable, and thus this point should maybe be re-worded as:

[*]You want the ability to game at extreme resolutions and graphics settings using SLI/Crossfire but don't care if your actual 3DMark score is 2%-7% lower than a similar X58 system

Maybe somehow work in the fact that you can get a better overall gaming system by going with an i5/P55 setup than an i7/X58 setup by taking the processor/motherboard/memory savings and running Crossfire/SLI for the same cash.

[*]You want to run Crossfire 5850s (or similar) from the start for the same cash as an X58/5870 setup, resulting in far better overall game performance

i5 ($210) + P55 MB ($130) + 4GB DDR3 ($80) + 2x 5850 ($520) = $940
i7 ($280) + X58 MB ($220) + 6GB DDR3 ($110) + 5870 ($380) = $990

:)

 

Jasonp

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Oct 1, 2009
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these are valid points and I would agree on going the p55 route except for the nagging feeling I have on bandwidth issues that may arise next year with usb3 and sata 6 devices just around the corner. Just not sure on if the p55 would handle the next gen SSD's which I will definately be buying.
 

v8envy

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Sep 7, 2002
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Considering the small $ difference you'd be even better off running a 2x 5850 setup on the X58 with PCIe lanes left over. You do bring up a good point -- 2x5850 is far better bang/buck than 1x5870 in games supporting multi-GPU for those users capable of dealing with multi-GPU issues.

It is possible to find quality X58 boards for well under $220 (my UD3R was under $180 shipped, with bing and rebate bringing it to $145. Several Asrock and MSI boards are in the same range). Nobody will argue 6GB > 4GB and i7 > i5. The total % difference in system cost is tiny for the advantages gained.

I completely agreed with the criteria in the OP however.
 

Skott

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Oct 4, 2005
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Nice post. Gives the uninformed some up front summarized pros and cons and then if they want/need more details they can read the articles. :thumbsup:
 

imported_Lothar

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Your guide didn't help.

I don't care about SLI/Crossfire. What I do care about however is that my single video card gets 16x, period regardless of what accessories are installed in the other PCIe slot.
I don't care about upgradability of CPU (Gulftown, or any other future processor on the same socket)
I do plan to overclock as high as possible(whatever will be stable at 1.30-1.32v eventually).
I do care about heat and energy usage(I will keep the processor's power saving features enabled 24/7 including during overclocks).
I will disable turbo mode(meaning I don't give a hoot about it's performance when I can simply just overclock higher).
I like HT.

Pricewise is the same to me for either platforms because I live near a Micro Center.

How much dollars would one get in energy savings from running an i7 860 instead of an i7 920 at stock speeds over a period of one year?

I don't see much value in the i7 860 yet.
With the exception of the i5 750, the entire Lynnfield platform seems overpriced.
Some cheap P55 boards only have 1 PCIe 1x slot, but come with 4 legacy PCI slots which is useless. :confused:
Some come with two PCIe 16x slot and no PCIe 4x slot...Meaning if you have something that requires more than PCIe 1x bandwith, you have to plug that in the other 16x slot and your videocard drops to 8x.
Others come with dedicated PCIe (4x?) slot that transmits data at only 1X speed or something like that.
There may be other ridiculous quirks that I don't know about.

Basically, to get a "decent" P55 motherboard, you have to spend $140+(UD3R and whatever ASUS equivalent).
To get a "decent" X58 motherboard, you only have to spend $170.

There is so much information overload that I'm just waiting for Gary to come and clear my head regarding P55.
 

CurseTheSky

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Oct 21, 2006
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Originally posted by: Lothar
Your guide didn't help.

I don't care about SLI/Crossfire. What I do care about however is that my single video card gets 16x, period regardless of what accessories are installed in the other PCIe slot.
I don't care about upgradability of CPU (Gulftown, or any other future processor on the same socket)
I do plan to overclock as high as possible(whatever will be stable at 1.30-1.32v eventually).
I do care about heat and energy usage(I will keep the processor's power saving features enabled 24/7 including during overclocks).
I will disable turbo mode(meaning I don't give a hoot about it's performance when I can simply just overclock higher).
I like HT.

Pricewise is the same to me for either platforms because I live near a Micro Center.

How much dollars would one get in energy savings from running an i7 860 instead of an i7 920 at stock speeds over a period of one year?

I don't see much value in the i7 860 yet.
With the exception of the i5 750, the entire Lynnfield platform seems overpriced.
Some cheap P55 boards only have 1 PCIe 1x slot, but come with 4 legacy PCI slots which is useless. :confused:
Some come with two PCIe 16x slot and no PCIe 4x slot...Meaning if you have something that requires more than PCIe 1x bandwith, you have to plug that in the other 16x slot and your videocard drops to 8x.
Others come with dedicated PCIe (4x?) slot that transmits data at only 1X speed or something like that.
There may be other ridiculous quirks that I don't know about.

Basically, to get a "decent" P55 motherboard, you have to spend $140+(UD3R and whatever ASUS equivalent).
To get a "decent" X58 motherboard, you only have to spend $170.

There is so much information overload that I'm just waiting for Gary to come and clear my head regarding P55.

In your situation, just grab whatever's cheaper and still meets your needs. Consider that you may change your mind in the future.

If it's going to cost you $140 for a P55 motherboard + $220 for the i7 860 OR $170 for an X58 motherboard and $200 for an i7 920, base it off of which has more features and which better suits your needs. If you tend to leave your processor at stock speeds, go with the i7 860 for the better turbo mode. If you may consider a dual card setup in the future, grab the X58 for full x16 / x16 bandwidth.

The bottom line is, it's hard to go wrong with either setup.
 

CurseTheSky

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Oct 21, 2006
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Bumping this as I've seen a couple other posts come up with similar questions in the past couple days.
 

alyarb

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Jan 25, 2009
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it's funny, now that we have more samples out in the open, lynnfield overclocking is a lot better than we originally thought, and there was a recent P55 vs. X58 crossfire comparison article with RV870 that showed the X58 really isn't worth the extra $100 for mGPU purposes either.

i really don't consider the i5 to be a value at all, but the 860 is a cheaper, more efficient way to get 8 threads at 4 GHz compared to X58.
 

aigomorla

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Originally posted by: alyarb
more efficient way to get 8 threads at 4 GHz compared to X58.

better gamble @ 4 is to go via X58 route...
 

RussianSensation

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Sep 5, 2003
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Originally posted by: Lothar

I don't see much value in the i7 860 yet.

Power consumption.

860 vs. 920 @ 3.8ghz idle and load

Idle:
920 @ 3.8 = 197 watts
860 @ 3.8 = 125 watts

Load
920 @ 3.8 = 397 watts
860 @ 3.8 = 335 watts

Before I got my Core i7 system I thought getting 4.0ghz is a walk-in-the park. Heck I have no doubts my 860 can do 4.2-4.3ghz because it boots at 210x21 with 1.360V. The problem is at 4.0ghz @ 1.31 volts, my Megahalems is barely able to keep my CPU at 77-78*C at full load (yes it dips to 68-72*C at times, but often goes into the high 70s). I can't imagine the 920 D0 processor running under 80*C on air cooling at 4.0ghz without spikes into the 80s on occasion. Although my case is el-cheapo; so its airflow is terrible.

The biggest hurdle to Core i7 overclocking is CPU temperature, not the processor itself! Under better cooling 5.0ghz is doable, but not on air cooling.