Bloomberg: Will GM shed Pontiac, Saturn, AND Saab to secure aid?

[MikeMike]

It seems that GM will possibly shed Pontiac, Saturn, and Saab... now, my feelings are that if GM does this, it is a great move. HOWEVER Pontiac sold be kept within them, but completely closed down. GM should keep the name plate. This will remove the crappy duplicates they are getting.
Saturn is a potentially great brand, which GM has just not marketed. They also tried to go upmarket w/ european imports on that vehicle, but failed due to marketing. Saab, well they are Saab...

GM should also shed GMC, or they should cancel all Chevy trucks and put them under the GMC brand, this will allow them to keep GMC and Chevy, without the expense of destroying either brand...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...YGRh5Q&refer=worldwide

 

[BeauJangles]

Agreed on brand consolidation, but I think Saturn should stick around and GM should move the Aveo and Cobalt to the Saturn line, making it their low-cost car option. Chevy, at this point, I think has more brand-recognition than GMC, so axe GMC. Sell off Saab, make Pontiac a performance line if it stays around. I guess the only thing they'd be missing is an up-market brand, but clearly Saab has failed them in that regard.

 

[MikeMike]

uh... Cadillac... GM does own Cadillac... which has the CTS, the future CTS-C, CTS-W, what i will call the ATS, which will be a smaller sedan priced in the mid 20s+ and will compete with the BMW 3 series in size and features.

 

[K1052]

Terminate Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, and GMC. Hold on to Saturn, this brand still has potential.

If it is a truck/SUV from GM it gets sold through Chevrolet or Cadillac on the high end.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: K1052
Terminate Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, and GMC. Hold on to Saturn, this brand still has potential.

If it is a truck/SUV from GM it gets sold through Chevrolet or Cadillac on the high end.

Agreed. They need to have 3 brands max, similar to Toyota. There shouldn't be *ANY* cross between the brands other than low/med/high options and those should be limited to extensive differences, such as body paneling and such. Many of the models should be shed also.

I never understood why there was a Sky *AND* a Solstice. That's a perfect example of GM stupidity. 2x the designers, 2x the marketing, 2x the production lines, 2x the dealers...etc.

It's like the Detroit idiots never picked up a book on Business Process Reingineering. You'd think they don't have a single person who has graduated from a business school in the last 20 years.

It's like watching the idiot managers at the Post Office. Seniority ruled there, not brains. Same thing at GM.

 

[MikeMike]

The actual reasoning behind the Sky/Solstice is that at the beginning the Solstice was to be Coupe ONLY, no roadster, and the sky was to be the roadster. That vehicle also had/has quite a bit of cost associated with it as its on its own dedicated platform (though some say it is a shortened, chopped, platform from the vette)

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: K1052
Terminate Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, and GMC. Hold on to Saturn, this brand still has potential.

If it is a truck/SUV from GM it gets sold through Chevrolet or Cadillac on the high end.

saturn has potential?
whens the last time you saw an aura or vue? supposedly their bread and butter cars.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
uh... Cadillac... GM does own Cadillac... which has the CTS, the future CTS-C, CTS-W, what i will call the ATS, which will be a smaller sedan priced in the mid 20s+ and will compete with the BMW 3 series in size and features.

Forgots. You are correcto.

My point still stands though, I think Chevy has more recognition than GMC ever will.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: K1052
Terminate Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, and GMC. Hold on to Saturn, this brand still has potential.

If it is a truck/SUV from GM it gets sold through Chevrolet or Cadillac on the high end.

saturn has potential?
whens the last time you saw an aura or vue? supposedly their bread and butter cars.

When GM isn't selling as many similar cars that undercut their sales I think they should do nicely.

I do have to agree that the Vue is hideous.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Agreed on brand consolidation, but I think Saturn should stick around and GM should move the Aveo and Cobalt to the Saturn line, making it their low-cost car option. Chevy, at this point, I think has more brand-recognition than GMC, so axe GMC. Sell off Saab, make Pontiac a performance line if it stays around. I guess the only thing they'd be missing is an up-market brand, but clearly Saab has failed them in that regard.

Two things: the Cobalt is a piece of junk and being replaced by the Chevy Cruze and Saturn already has the Astra.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Agreed on brand consolidation, but I think Saturn should stick around and GM should move the Aveo and Cobalt to the Saturn line, making it their low-cost car option. Chevy, at this point, I think has more brand-recognition than GMC, so axe GMC. Sell off Saab, make Pontiac a performance line if it stays around. I guess the only thing they'd be missing is an up-market brand, but clearly Saab has failed them in that regard.

lol. "Make pontiac a performance line"? This is the thought process that got them into this problem in the first place. Does BMW have a performance brand? M doesn't count.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Agreed on brand consolidation, but I think Saturn should stick around and GM should move the Aveo and Cobalt to the Saturn line, making it their low-cost car option. Chevy, at this point, I think has more brand-recognition than GMC, so axe GMC. Sell off Saab, make Pontiac a performance line if it stays around. I guess the only thing they'd be missing is an up-market brand, but clearly Saab has failed them in that regard.

lol. "Make pontiac a performance line"? This is the thought process that got them into this problem in the first place. Does BMW have a performance brand? M doesn't count.

Well, if they're going to keep it around at all, it makes some degree of sense. What else are they going to do with it? Keep it and run the same crappy sedans through it in hopes that they sell? In all likelihood they drop Pontiac, too. I'm just speculating about what else they could do with it.

Comparing BMW to GM isn't really a fair comparison. BMW sells less than half as many cars as GM and most of their sales are aimed at the mid-to-upper levels of the car-buying world. BMW, though, does divide their lines: they have MINI, BMW, and Rolls. So, in essence, they have their "low-cost" division (MINI), their catchall (BMW), and their beyond luxury brand (Rolls).

While you're right to say that BMW doesn't have a performance line, I don't quite understand why you're so critical of GM having one. All of BMW's cars are supposed to be "sporty" and they don't make cheap sedans, minivans, or trucks. So, for them, they can put out the X5 and say, "it's sporty!" and people believe it because it's a BMW. When GM tries to slap the "sporty" label on Chevy, Buick, GMC, or, until recently, Cadillac, people scoff. Why? Because those brands are decidedly un-sporty and un-sexy. They're regular cars, trucks, and minivans (except for the obvious Corvette).

Therefore, if GM is going to keep around sporty cars, like the new Pontiac G8 GXP, they should do so under another brand that is all about sporty and fast. Again, except for the Corvette, which has such strong associations as a Chevy, I'd make Pontiac into a relatively low-volume performance car line if it were to stay around. Otherwise, I'd drop the Pontiac name and bring it back only for specific sporty models.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: K1052
Terminate Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, and GMC. Hold on to Saturn, this brand still has potential.

If it is a truck/SUV from GM it gets sold through Chevrolet or Cadillac on the high end.

saturn has potential?
whens the last time you saw an aura or vue? supposedly their bread and butter cars.

Saw? Never even heard of them. What ever happened to GMs famous names like Biscayne, Wildcat, LeMans, Chevelle, Tempest, Bonneville, and Firebird?

OP- Shedding Saab (a car i have not see on the road in 10 years) would be a good start and bring over Holden to US market would be my first move.

 

[MotF Bane]

Cadillac for luxury, Pontiac for performance, Saturn for general use cars, Chevrolet for trucks, SUVs, and the Corvette (just because of tradition). Minivans with either Saturn or Chevrolet. Get rid of GMC, Saab, Holden, Buick, and everything else.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: K1052
Terminate Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, and GMC. Hold on to Saturn, this brand still has potential.

If it is a truck/SUV from GM it gets sold through Chevrolet or Cadillac on the high end.

saturn has potential?
whens the last time you saw an aura or vue? supposedly their bread and butter cars.

Saw? Never even heard of them. What ever happened to GMs famous names like Biscayne, Wildcat, LeMans, Chevelle, Tempest, Bonneville, and Firebird?

OP- Shedding Saab (a car i have not see on the road in 10 years) would be a good start and bring over Holden to US market would be my first move.

Saab is pretty popular, but their terrible reliability has been killing sales for years. Why buy a $40,000 Saab that's going to be a huge PITA to keep running when you can get a 3 Series for basically the same price?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Agreed on brand consolidation, but I think Saturn should stick around and GM should move the Aveo and Cobalt to the Saturn line, making it their low-cost car option. Chevy, at this point, I think has more brand-recognition than GMC, so axe GMC. Sell off Saab, make Pontiac a performance line if it stays around. I guess the only thing they'd be missing is an up-market brand, but clearly Saab has failed them in that regard.

lol. "Make pontiac a performance line"? This is the thought process that got them into this problem in the first place. Does BMW have a performance brand? M doesn't count.

Well, if they're going to keep it around at all, it makes some degree of sense. What else are they going to do with it? Keep it and run the same crappy sedans through it in hopes that they sell? In all likelihood they drop Pontiac, too. I'm just speculating about what else they could do with it.

Comparing BMW to GM isn't really a fair comparison. BMW sells less than half as many cars as GM and most of their sales are aimed at the mid-to-upper levels of the car-buying world. BMW, though, does divide their lines: they have MINI, BMW, and Rolls. So, in essence, they have their "low-cost" division (MINI), their catchall (BMW), and their beyond luxury brand (Rolls).

While you're right to say that BMW doesn't have a performance line, I don't quite understand why you're so critical of GM having one. All of BMW's cars are supposed to be "sporty" and they don't make cheap sedans, minivans, or trucks. So, for them, they can put out the X5 and say, "it's sporty!" and people believe it because it's a BMW. When GM tries to slap the "sporty" label on Chevy, Buick, GMC, or, until recently, Cadillac, people scoff. Why? Because those brands are decidedly un-sporty and un-sexy. They're regular cars, trucks, and minivans (except for the obvious Corvette).

Therefore, if GM is going to keep around sporty cars, like the new Pontiac G8 GXP, they should do so under another brand that is all about sporty and fast. Again, except for the Corvette, which has such strong associations as a Chevy, I'd make Pontiac into a relatively low-volume performance car line if it were to stay around. Otherwise, I'd drop the Pontiac name and bring it back only for specific sporty models.

Mini produces one car that isn't so cheap. You can't even consider Rolls as a BMW brand. There is nothing anywhere near Rolls is to BMW as ??? is to GM.

Having another brand that is "sporty and fast" is stupid. It's a waste of time and resources.

Low volume = high price. Nobody is going to pay that much of a premium for Pontiac.

They need *THREE* brands max. Anything more is a waste of resources.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Mini produces one car that isn't so cheap. You can't even consider Rolls as a BMW brand. There is nothing anywhere near Rolls is to BMW as ??? is to GM.

Having another brand that is "sporty and fast" is stupid. It's a waste of time and resources.

Low volume = high price. Nobody is going to pay that much of a premium for Pontiac.

They need *THREE* brands max. Anything more is a waste of resources.

Why can't I consider Rolls a BMW brand? It's owned completely by BMW. They used BMW engines and other parts and now BMW is able to use the Rolls-Royce name directly on any car it feels like. They have their own production facilities, but BMW runs the show... kinda like how GM runs the Cadillac show.

Anyway, what brand of GM is already has the "sporty and fast" moniker? That's right, NONE! So, declaring Pontiac to be another "sporty and fast" brand is entirely incorrect.

Who said anything about paying a premium? I'd keep the Solstice around and offer it with a number of engines, I'd add a small GTI-like coupe, and the G8 GXP. That's a pretty solid lineup. You have a sporty coupe under $25k, you have a more practical but still sporty hatchback under $30k and you have a really powerful sedan that starts at $40k.

Something like the Solstice, with the right marketing, could sell like crazy. Just look at the Miata.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Mini produces one car that isn't so cheap. You can't even consider Rolls as a BMW brand. There is nothing anywhere near Rolls is to BMW as ??? is to GM.

Having another brand that is "sporty and fast" is stupid. It's a waste of time and resources.

Low volume = high price. Nobody is going to pay that much of a premium for Pontiac.

They need *THREE* brands max. Anything more is a waste of resources.

Why can't I consider Rolls a BMW brand? It's owned completely by BMW. They used BMW engines and other parts and now BMW is able to use the Rolls-Royce name directly on any car it feels like. They have their own production facilities, but BMW runs the show... kinda like how GM runs the Cadillac show.

Anyway, what brand of GM is already has the "sporty and fast" moniker? That's right, NONE! So, declaring Pontiac to be another "sporty and fast" brand is entirely incorrect.

Who said anything about paying a premium? I'd keep the Solstice around and offer it with a number of engines, I'd add a small GTI-like coupe, and the G8 GXP. That's a pretty solid lineup. You have a sporty coupe under $25k, you have a more practical but still sporty hatchback under $30k and you have a really powerful sedan that starts at $40k.

Something like the Solstice, with the right marketing, could sell like crazy. Just look at the Miata.

Again, you don't need a "sporty" moniker. Name one car brand that has one other than doltish Americans.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Cadillac for luxury, Pontiac for performance, Saturn for general use cars, Chevrolet for trucks, SUVs, and the Corvette (just because of tradition). Minivans with either Saturn or Chevrolet. Get rid of GMC, Saab, Holden, Buick, and everything else.

Get rid of Holden? Thats their best line w/ Commodore/Statesman/Caprice matching up well with BMW for less. I'd love to have one.

I forgot about the ute.. 400HP micro truck grocery getter. Talk about sporty.
http://www.holden.com.au/www-h...overview?modelid=15004

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Mini produces one car that isn't so cheap. You can't even consider Rolls as a BMW brand. There is nothing anywhere near Rolls is to BMW as ??? is to GM.

Having another brand that is "sporty and fast" is stupid. It's a waste of time and resources.

Low volume = high price. Nobody is going to pay that much of a premium for Pontiac.

They need *THREE* brands max. Anything more is a waste of resources.

Why can't I consider Rolls a BMW brand? It's owned completely by BMW. They used BMW engines and other parts and now BMW is able to use the Rolls-Royce name directly on any car it feels like. They have their own production facilities, but BMW runs the show... kinda like how GM runs the Cadillac show.

Anyway, what brand of GM is already has the "sporty and fast" moniker? That's right, NONE! So, declaring Pontiac to be another "sporty and fast" brand is entirely incorrect.

Who said anything about paying a premium? I'd keep the Solstice around and offer it with a number of engines, I'd add a small GTI-like coupe, and the G8 GXP. That's a pretty solid lineup. You have a sporty coupe under $25k, you have a more practical but still sporty hatchback under $30k and you have a really powerful sedan that starts at $40k.

Something like the Solstice, with the right marketing, could sell like crazy. Just look at the Miata.

Again, you don't need a "sporty" moniker. Name one car brand that has one other than doltish Americans.

You realize that I also think Pontiac is on the block, but I was just speculating about what GM might do if they kept it around.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Mini produces one car that isn't so cheap. You can't even consider Rolls as a BMW brand. There is nothing anywhere near Rolls is to BMW as ??? is to GM.

Having another brand that is "sporty and fast" is stupid. It's a waste of time and resources.

Low volume = high price. Nobody is going to pay that much of a premium for Pontiac.

They need *THREE* brands max. Anything more is a waste of resources.

Why can't I consider Rolls a BMW brand? It's owned completely by BMW. They used BMW engines and other parts and now BMW is able to use the Rolls-Royce name directly on any car it feels like. They have their own production facilities, but BMW runs the show... kinda like how GM runs the Cadillac show.

Anyway, what brand of GM is already has the "sporty and fast" moniker? That's right, NONE! So, declaring Pontiac to be another "sporty and fast" brand is entirely incorrect.

Who said anything about paying a premium? I'd keep the Solstice around and offer it with a number of engines, I'd add a small GTI-like coupe, and the G8 GXP. That's a pretty solid lineup. You have a sporty coupe under $25k, you have a more practical but still sporty hatchback under $30k and you have a really powerful sedan that starts at $40k.

Something like the Solstice, with the right marketing, could sell like crazy. Just look at the Miata.

Again, you don't need a "sporty" moniker. Name one car brand that has one other than doltish Americans.

You realize that I also think Pontiac is on the block, but I was just speculating about what GM might do if they kept it around.

They need to become a lean mean streamlined machine. Not "hey, lets keep this around for a niche brand" bloated cludgy company. It's about time Americans started to learn from foreign, functional, companies and stopped being stupid.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: K1052
Terminate Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, and GMC. Hold on to Saturn, this brand still has potential.

If it is a truck/SUV from GM it gets sold through Chevrolet or Cadillac on the high end.

Agreed. They need to have 3 brands max, similar to Toyota. There shouldn't be *ANY* cross between the brands other than low/med/high options and those should be limited to extensive differences, such as body paneling and such. Many of the models should be shed also.

I never understood why there was a Sky *AND* a Solstice. That's a perfect example of GM stupidity. 2x the designers, 2x the marketing, 2x the production lines, 2x the dealers...etc.

It's like the Detroit idiots never picked up a book on Business Process Reingineering. You'd think they don't have a single person who has graduated from a business school in the last 20 years.

It's like watching the idiot managers at the Post Office. Seniority ruled there, not brains. Same thing at GM.

You raise an interesting issue. Exactly what training have the CEOs and top management at The Big Three had? A quick check online didn't turn up much worth reporting.

-Robert

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Cadillac for luxury, Pontiac for performance, Saturn for general use cars, Chevrolet for trucks, SUVs, and the Corvette (just because of tradition). Minivans with either Saturn or Chevrolet. Get rid of GMC, Saab, Holden, Buick, and everything else.

you realize that globally buicks sell VERY well, right?

if anything

gmc should be industrially oriented

chevy for standard consumer vehicles

cadilac for luxury

buicks sell well and is probably their most profitable line globally, so might as well keep them for their global presense.

pontiac and saturn serve no purpose, shut them down and sell saab

 

[miketheidiot]

assuming that GM needs a 'sporty performance line' chevy certainly has more of a rep for that than Pontiac. Might as well put it all under the same flagship.

 

[RU482]

The G8 would have been great...back in 1998 when impending doom and the possibility of $5 gas wasn't on the conscious horizon.

Everything else Pontiac offers...meh/redundant

Pontiac = bye bye

Saturn...have they ever made GM any money?

Saturn = bye bye

Saab.....how does this fit??

Saab = bye bye

GMC...make them the truck/SUV division
Chevy...middle of the road cars, like it is today without trucks
Caddy...high end, like it is today
Buick...they have, what, 3 models, could be absorbed into Caddy...bye bye