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Blood or Oil? The Iraq Dilemma

Daovonnaex

Golden Member
Saddam Hussein, ladies and gentleman (ha!), is a psychopath. He shot and murdered a teacher of his at the age of 14. For nearly thirty years, he has ruled Iraq with his iron fist. He likes to think of himself as Saladin, and his greatest goal is to crush the state of Israel and drive the west out of the Near East by whatever means necessary. Anyone who speaks out against his regime simply dissappears in the night. To illustrate the sickness of this man, let me point out a recent example. A young man refused conscription into the Iraqi Army recently; his father then shot him in the head and killed him. Saddam conferred upon this man Iraq's highest medal of valor--for murdering his own son for disloyalty. Saddam Hussein maintains the largest military in the Gulf, with over one million men at arms. This insane madman has brutalized his people for so long, threatens his neighbors with menacing force, and, might I add, sits atop on of the world's largest oil reserves. We have tried diplomacy repeatedly, and it has failed utterly. And some of you people wish to continue to offer the olive branch? I'm sorry, but this is some of the most convoluted logic I've ever heard. There is a time for war, and that time is now.

Saddam Hussein is something of a Stalinist in his treatment of his people, and he's something of a Hitler when it comes to self-promotion. All over Baghdad and indeed Iraq at large, streets are named after him. A cruise through Baghdad streets will reveal Saddam Boulevard, Hussein Way, etc. Furthermore, it is impossible to escape Saddam's visage. Every home is required by law, on pain of death, to display a portrait of Saddam. Towering ten story paintings and statues lurk around every street corner. Those who disobey, question, or even fail to worship properly Saddam are ruthlessly crushed. Saddam maintains the world's most fearsome complex of torture laboratories in a Presidential Compound just outside of Baghdad. In it are housed some of the most evil devices of torture ever created. All the traditional implements of torture exist there; the rack, oil, electroshock rooms, etc. Saddam, ever the innovator, has one room with a network of pipes in the ceiling. Ever few square inches contains a duct which can be opened. The pipes circulate with nitric acid--acid is randomly dropped around the room. A person is forced to constantly watch the pipes and run around to avoid life-threatening burns. The person is released upon death or confession. This is the "beloved" Saddam who "gently" watches over his people.

Saddam, in addition to his iron fist at home, wields a mailed fist abroad. After seizing power, Saddam began the most aggressive military expansion in the Near East since the days of the Hegira. The Army became, in short time, the fourth largest in the world, equipped with the most modern American and Soviet weapons, trained in Soviet style wave tactics. The unprecedented buildup of Iraqi forces compelled the United States to dispatch soldiers to the Gulf in order to deter a feared Iraqi invasion of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Saddam, however, was not satisfied with conventional military might. His goal, after all, was Arab Unity and the destruction of the state of Israel. Saddam begin to develop nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons (with some help from the USSR and the USA). He wanted nothing short than the destruction of the Jewish race by fire and the union of the Arab World by the sword. Fortunately, Israel recognized this grave threat and bombed the Osirak nuclear reactor in 1981, dealing a crippling setback to the Iraqi nuclear program. The biochemical program, on the other hand, sped ahead at full steam. Saddam had by now become embroiled in a war with newly-Islamist Iran, hoping to make it the first of many victories. This war, fought from 1980-1988, was the longest conventional war of the Twentieth Century. Nearly a million men on both sides died in this bitter clash. Saddam used chemical weapons--burning weapons of terror not used since the First World War--to advance his position. He settled for a limited victory in 1988 which recognized the status quo and gave Iraq some concessions. Saddam, unsatisfied, would turn his eyes south two years later. In the mean time, he focused his attention on a brutal suppression of the stateless Kurds to the north. Full military force, including chemical weapons, on the luckless Kurds. In 1990, over half a million Iraqi troops invaded the burning Emirate of Kuwait. In a few short weeks Saddam had conquered the state. The combined oil reserves of Iraq and Kuwait were the world's largest, giving Saddam unprecedented control of the world's oil market. The civilized world, finally recognizing the threat of this madman, dispatched a mighty US-led coalition to force the ouster of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. However, we failed to pursue the Iraqi military into Baghdad, and Saddam remained in power.

Iraq, I'd like to add, is one of the world's largest oil producing states. Its oil reserves are second only to those of Saudi Arabia. Due to a UN-US embargo since the conclusion of the Gulf War (which would be lifted if only Saddam would cooperate), Iraqi oil has largely not been seen on the world market (though gasoline in Baghdad costs approximately ten cents a gallon). Approximately one million Iraqis have starved due this embargo and Saddam's actions, and the western world has been deprived of a great source of energy. Were this tapped, oil and gas prices would plummet, thereby aiding economic expansion. Simultaneously, the Iraqi citzenry would see unprecedented prosperity and have enough to eat. Sadly, Saddam's obstinance prevents all of this.

Since the conclusion of the Gulf War, Saddam has violated sixteen UN security council mandates, ultimately failed to cease development on weapons of mass destruction, diverts medical and food aid from his STARVING PEOPLE, and continually fires on US and British aircraft attempting to enforce the peace. He was most uncooperative with UN weapons inspectors and threw them out of Iraq, though he recently allowed them in again (though Presidential Palaces were off-limits without prior notice), fearing another invasion. He is in clear material breech of the UN Security Council, yet the world does nothing. He is a psychotic dictator who terrorizes his own people. He menaces his neighbors and develops deadly weapons that he clearly is not responsible enough to control. He starves his own people and denies us a great source of energy. It is quite clear that Iraq MUST be invaded and Saddam MUST be ousted.
 
You haven't said exactly why he is a threat to the United States. I agree that he's a power hungry and brutal dictator, but I don't think that is enough justification for invasion.

There needs to be clear evidence that Iraq (1) has weapons of mass destruction and (2) intends to use them against US/Allied interests or intends to give these weapons to third parties for this intent. GW Bush has not answered either of these questions.
 
Saddam Hussein, ladies and gentleman (ha!), is a psychopath. He shot and murdered a teacher of his at the age of 14. For nearly thirty years, he has ruled Iraq with his iron fist. He likes to think of himself as Saladin, and his greatest goal is to crush the state of Israel and drive the west out of the Near East by whatever means necessary. Anyone who speaks out against his regime simply dissappears in the night. To illustrate the sickness of this man, let me point out a recent example. A young man refused conscription into the Iraqi Army recently; his father then shot him in the head and killed him. Saddam conferred upon this man Iraq's highest medal of valor--for murdering his own son for disloyalty.

Heres something to tinker with brainboy....he was all this and more when WE were financing him in his past endeavors against Iran.

He was our friend once, I wonder why he turned against us all the sudden? Those which we cannot control with money or power...we simply villify and conquer for our nations gain.
~wnied~
 
Originally posted by: wnied
Saddam Hussein, ladies and gentleman (ha!), is a psychopath. He shot and murdered a teacher of his at the age of 14. For nearly thirty years, he has ruled Iraq with his iron fist. He likes to think of himself as Saladin, and his greatest goal is to crush the state of Israel and drive the west out of the Near East by whatever means necessary. Anyone who speaks out against his regime simply dissappears in the night. To illustrate the sickness of this man, let me point out a recent example. A young man refused conscription into the Iraqi Army recently; his father then shot him in the head and killed him. Saddam conferred upon this man Iraq's highest medal of valor--for murdering his own son for disloyalty. Heres something to tinker with brainboy....he was all this and more when WE were financing him in his past endeavors against Iran. He was our friend once, I wonder why he turned against us all the sudden? Those which we cannot control with money or power...we simply villify and conquer for our nations gain. ~wnied~


Ding Ding Ding!!!! We have a winner!!!
 
Originally posted by: wnied
Saddam Hussein, ladies and gentleman (ha!), is a psychopath. He shot and murdered a teacher of his at the age of 14. For nearly thirty years, he has ruled Iraq with his iron fist. He likes to think of himself as Saladin, and his greatest goal is to crush the state of Israel and drive the west out of the Near East by whatever means necessary. Anyone who speaks out against his regime simply dissappears in the night. To illustrate the sickness of this man, let me point out a recent example. A young man refused conscription into the Iraqi Army recently; his father then shot him in the head and killed him. Saddam conferred upon this man Iraq's highest medal of valor--for murdering his own son for disloyalty.

Heres something to tinker with brainboy....he was all this and more when WE were financing him in his past endeavors against Iran.

He was our friend once, I wonder why he turned against us all the sudden? Those which we cannot control with money or power...we simply villify and conquer for our nations gain.
~wnied~
Oh well yeah, that's always GOT to be it with each and every one, each and every time. I mean there's no way in hell a guy like Saddam or Osama would/could change for the worse, become power hungry or money hungry and attempt to extort from us! No way someone like that would/could get upset and vilify us for not giving into their every whim. Hell no! We are ALWAYS the bad guys just like you said.😉
rolleye.gif
 
Originally posted by: wnied
Heres something to tinker with brainboy....he was all this and more when WE were financing him in his past endeavors against Iran.

He was our friend once, I wonder why he turned against us all the sudden? Those which we cannot control with money or power...we simply villify and conquer for our nations gain.
~wnied~
Saddam was hardly our friend. We saw him as a counter to Iranian fundamentalism and exploited the position. In fact, we even secretly supplied arms to Iran in 1983 to prevent an Iraqi victory. Our goal was to wither both the powers away as much as possible, thereby preventing danger to the oil resources in the Gulf.

OldSpooky: I did not state that Saddam is a threat to the United States. Rather, I believe that he is a threat to the Near East and brutally oppresses his own people. Given that the Near East is perhaps the most vital foreign region for us (with the oil and everything), and considering that we should have a strong conviction to uphold human rights, I believe that it is vital we force the ouster of Saddam.
 
that is quite a bit you have written there, i thought it was an opinion article for a moment. While the extra oil reeserves would be nice to be in the world market , I am more concern for the well being of the people of iraq and the ousting of madaS
 
Originally posted by: OldSpooky
You haven't said exactly why he is a threat to the United States. I agree that he's a power hungry and brutal dictator, but I don't think that is enough justification for invasion.

There needs to be clear evidence that Iraq (1) has weapons of mass destruction and (2) intends to use them against US/Allied interests or intends to give these weapons to third parties for this intent. GW Bush has not answered either of these questions.
not under a realist foreign policy regime you don't.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yup, the people of Iraq are suffering under a terrible dictator. That's why we have to kill them.

So who would take his place? 😕
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nobody, Zim. We have to kill all of them to save them. The next guy, otherwise, will be just as bad.

:Q

I believe I catch you point Moonbeam, thanks for the quick reply 🙂
 
Yup, it's like the WMD thing. Saddam used WMD against his own people so we have to punish them by using our WMD and kill a bunch of his people. I mean come on, you can't just let the guy get away with killing his own people can you?
 
I have a next door neighbor that likes cats. In fact, he likes to slowly torture them - letting them die over the period of weeks or months. Sometimes I'll see a cat around the neighborhood with a missing foot. Or a missing eye, or ear. Eventually, there are no body parts left to be taken off.

But I don't care. They're just cats. Besides, I'd rather let my neighbor torture cats than humans.
 
Originally posted by: Bop
I have a next door neighbor that likes cats. In fact, he likes to slowly torture them - letting them die over the period of weeks or months. Sometimes I'll see a cat around the neighborhood with a missing foot. Or a missing eye, or ear. Eventually, there are no body parts left to be taken off.

But I don't care. They're just cats. Besides, I'd rather let my neighbor torture cats than humans.

rolleye.gif
 
You are right, Bop, because in order to stop your neighbor you doubtless would have to exterminate the entire neighborhood.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yup, the people of Iraq are suffering under a terrible dictator. That's why we have to kill them.
Of course, ideally we'd implant a special ops team to take out Saddam and a few key people, then an occupying force comes in without resistance. That would save us the misfortune of killing thousands of unwilling conscripts. However, that's fairly unlikely a real invasion would most likely be necessary. Granted, the Iraqi war-dead would be a tragedy, but ultimately, it save lives (in the form of food and medical aid to Iraq) and benefit the people of Iraq (obvious).
 
The world begged the US and Nato to go after Milosovik because he was comitting genocide in Kosovo.

Saddam has committed genocide in Iraq. What is the difference in the two situations? Is it because no one cares about the people that Saddam is killing?

Saddam has committed one of the worst ecological disasters ever in Iraq. Does no one care about the environment anymore?

Saddam has broken every weapons agreement he has ever signed. Does anyone believe that he does not still have banned weapons?

Moonie
An obvious over exaggeration of what would happen is a stupid argument. Wait, I forgot who I am addressing.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You are right, Bop, because in order to stop your neighbor you doubtless would have to exterminate the entire neighborhood.

I take it that's sarcasm?
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nobody, Zim. We have to kill all of them to save them. The next guy, otherwise, will be just as bad.

Damn straight.. Once we've rid Iraq of the scourge of Islam, we can populate the place with good corn-fed, God-fearing folk, and the world will be a better place. (If it weren't for those wacky French and Germans, that is..)
 
behold the mighty American Empire. I wonder how long it will be before placing a foreign nationalist upon these toppled thrones will not be enough, and the USA will just retain political control of these countries in the name of world peace.
 
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