BLOCKING. LIKE Hulu and Google Voice

[jersiq]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07
The wireless networks can't handle all that video. There's a HUGE difference between watching video on your broadband connection and cellular wireless. Huge.

Not the customers' problem.

You are going to see wireless data prices get much more expensive, very soon (I can't tell you how I know this or from where, but it's true) so in a way it will become the customers problem.

And watch those potential customers go elsewhere. And how are they going to raise the data plan rates on existing customers?

The plan is to limit, cap or slow down their connection via reasonable network management practices.

LOL, that's not "reasonable network management". Its called poor network planning.

So, you are saying that QoS is poor network management?
Have you ever done any network planning at all? (Not a troll question, just questioning your ethos)

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: her209
LOL, that's not "reasonable network management". Its called poor network planning.

So, you are saying that QoS is poor network management?
Have you ever done any network planning at all? (Not a troll question, just questioning your ethos)

It has nothing to do with QoS. Its about AT&T overselling their services without the infrastructure to support it. And when the customers complain about crappy service, they blame it on the people who use the services that *surprise* they paid for. And to add insult to injury, they want to reduce/limit usage under the guise of "reasonable network management".

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Give it a few months. If the FCC and congress have their way, ISPs will truly become the big, fat, dumb pipes that consumers and content providers want. Unfortunately the ISPs will likely react by jacking up prices.

Internet Service Providers

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure no one here would have every known.

INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS

What's that...I didn't hear you the first time.

INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS

DENTAL PLAN

----
Quit the nested quote spam.
AnandTech Moderator Evadman

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07
The wireless networks can't handle all that video. There's a HUGE difference between watching video on your broadband connection and cellular wireless. Huge.

Not the customers' problem.

It actually is, because the customers are the ones who want to do that which they cannot do.

What are the customers trying to do?

Watch HD porn on their phones.

RedTube App?

 

[Newbian]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: her209
LOL, that's not "reasonable network management". Its called poor network planning.

So, you are saying that QoS is poor network management?
Have you ever done any network planning at all? (Not a troll question, just questioning your ethos)

It has nothing to do with QoS. Its about AT&T overselling their services without the infrastructure to support it. And when the customers complain about crappy service, they blame it on the people who use the services that *surprise* they paid for.

No different then people that use to much bandwidth in their "unlimited" plan but they get blamed also.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: her209
LOL, that's not "reasonable network management". Its called poor network planning.

So, you are saying that QoS is poor network management?
Have you ever done any network planning at all? (Not a troll question, just questioning your ethos)

It has nothing to do with QoS. Its about AT&T overselling their services without the infrastructure to support it. And when the customers complain about crappy service, they blame it on the people who use the services that *surprise* they paid for.

No different then people that use to much bandwidth in their "unlimited" plan but they get blamed also.

Except someone on an iPhone data plan isn't downloading warez 24/7.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Give it a few months. If the FCC and congress have their way, ISPs will truly become the big, fat, dumb pipes that consumers and content providers want. Unfortunately the ISPs will likely react by jacking up prices.

Internet Service Providers

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure no one here would have every known.

INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS

What's that...I didn't hear you the first time.

INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS

DENTAL PLAN

monorail

----
You too.
AnandTech Moderator Evadman

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07
The wireless networks can't handle all that video. There's a HUGE difference between watching video on your broadband connection and cellular wireless. Huge.

Not the customers' problem.

It actually is, because the customers are the ones who want to do that which they cannot do.

What are the customers trying to do?

Treat their wireless connection like a wired broadband connection. It's just not going to work, no matter what the wireless service providers do.

 

[jersiq]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: her209
LOL, that's not "reasonable network management". Its called poor network planning.

So, you are saying that QoS is poor network management?
Have you ever done any network planning at all? (Not a troll question, just questioning your ethos)

It has nothing to do with QoS. Its about AT&T overselling their services without the infrastructure to support it. And when the customers complain about crappy service, they blame it on the people who use the services that *surprise* they paid for. And to add insult to injury, they want to reduce/limit usage under the guise of "reasonable network management".

???? You snipped spidey's comment:

The plan is to limit, cap or slow down their connection via reasonable network management practices.

This is all achieved through QoS. Every 3G wireless network mostly supports QoS from the aggregation level to the air interface as well. Would you complain if you paid for the "gold" package and were able to stream Hulu to your phone?

And you didn't answer my other question.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07
The wireless networks can't handle all that video. There's a HUGE difference between watching video on your broadband connection and cellular wireless. Huge.

Not the customers' problem.

It actually is, because the customers are the ones who want to do that which they cannot do.

What are the customers trying to do?

Treat their wireless connection like a wired broadband connection. It's just not going to work, no matter what the wireless service providers do.

What are the customers being forced to pay $20/$30 per month for then? Unlimited Data Plan.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07
The wireless networks can't handle all that video. There's a HUGE difference between watching video on your broadband connection and cellular wireless. Huge.

Not the customers' problem.

It actually is, because the customers are the ones who want to do that which they cannot do.

What are the customers trying to do?

Treat their wireless connection like a wired broadband connection. It's just not going to work, no matter what the wireless service providers do.

What are the customers being forced to pay $20/$30 per month for then? Unlimited Data Plan.

Who is forcing anyone to pay for anything?

I do think wireless service providers need to stop using the word "unlimited" when what they really mean is that there is no per-unit usage fee. They won't charge you more than the base monthly fee no matter how much you use, but it's not really unlimited if they'll drop your account because you used too much.

Unlimited wireless Internet is a myth.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: jersiq
This is all achieved through QoS. Every 3G wireless network mostly supports QoS from the aggregation level to the air interface as well. Would you complain if you paid for the "gold" package and were able to stream Hulu to your phone?

If I paid for the "Unlimited Data Plan" I expect to get it. I don't care if the company thinks I'm watching too many YouTube videos, downloading too many apps, getting too many e-mails, etc. I paid for it.

And you didn't answer my other question.

LOL, I didn't realize you had to be a "network planner" to know what QoS is, but to answer your question, yes, I have been involved in network planning when my company relocated to a new facility along with two other companies.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: mugs
Who is forcing anyone to pay for anything?

I do think wireless service providers need to stop using the word "unlimited" when what they really mean is that there is no per-unit usage fee. They won't charge you more than the base monthly fee no matter how much you use, but it's not really unlimited if they'll drop your account because you used too much.

Unlimited wireless Internet is a myth.

You can't use the iPhone on AT&T without a data plan.

 

[Newbian]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: her209
LOL, that's not "reasonable network management". Its called poor network planning.

So, you are saying that QoS is poor network management?
Have you ever done any network planning at all? (Not a troll question, just questioning your ethos)

It has nothing to do with QoS. Its about AT&T overselling their services without the infrastructure to support it. And when the customers complain about crappy service, they blame it on the people who use the services that *surprise* they paid for.

No different then people that use to much bandwidth in their "unlimited" plan but they get blamed also.

Except someone on an iPhone data plan isn't downloading warez 24/7.

Sorry, but unlimited means the same thing no matter how you look at it.

 

[Zensal]

What is it that is actually limiting factor? Is it the actual wireless spectrum, or is it the data pipes to the towers/lack of wireless hardware on the towers?

If it is the wireless, then I guess people will have to live with it until things move to WiMAX or 4G or whatever. You can't change the laws of physics.

If it is the data pipes to the towers themselves or lack of wireless transmitters/receivers on the towers themselves, then AT&T just needs to step it up. People pay stupid amounts of money for those plans. Give them what they pay for.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs
Who is forcing anyone to pay for anything?

I do think wireless service providers need to stop using the word "unlimited" when what they really mean is that there is no per-unit usage fee. They won't charge you more than the base monthly fee no matter how much you use, but it's not really unlimited if they'll drop your account because you used too much.

Unlimited wireless Internet is a myth.

You can't use the iPhone on AT&T without a data plan.

I'll ask again - who's forcing anyone to pay for anything?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs
Who is forcing anyone to pay for anything?

I do think wireless service providers need to stop using the word "unlimited" when what they really mean is that there is no per-unit usage fee. They won't charge you more than the base monthly fee no matter how much you use, but it's not really unlimited if they'll drop your account because you used too much.

Unlimited wireless Internet is a myth.

You can't use the iPhone on AT&T without a data plan.

I'll ask again - who's forcing anyone to pay for anything?

AT&T. And nice try with the "you could have picked another carrier/phone." AT&T is specifically complaining about iPhone users.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: mugs
Who is forcing anyone to pay for anything?

I do think wireless service providers need to stop using the word "unlimited" when what they really mean is that there is no per-unit usage fee. They won't charge you more than the base monthly fee no matter how much you use, but it's not really unlimited if they'll drop your account because you used too much.

Unlimited wireless Internet is a myth.

You can't use the iPhone on AT&T without a data plan.

I'll ask again - who's forcing anyone to pay for anything?

AT&T. And nice try with the "you could have picked another carrier/phone." AT&T is specifically complaining about iPhone users.

When did we get onto the topic of AT&T complaining about iPhone users' data usage?

Like it or not, offering real unlimited data usage is an impossibility. It's not prevented by the carriers' desire to not upgrade their networks, it's prevented by the limitations of the physical world. That's not much consolation to the customer, but bad things happen when we disregard the limitations of the physical world. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria.

 

[jersiq]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: jersiq
This is all achieved through QoS. Every 3G wireless network mostly supports QoS from the aggregation level to the air interface as well. Would you complain if you paid for the "gold" package and were able to stream Hulu to your phone?

If I paid for the "Unlimited Data Plan" I expect to get it. I don't care if the company thinks I'm watching too many YouTube videos, downloading too many apps, getting too many e-mails, etc. I paid for it.

And you didn't answer my other question.

LOL, I didn't realize you had to be a "network planner" to know what QoS is, but to answer your question, yes, I have been involved in network planning when my company relocated to a new facility along with two other companies.

Wow, you sure do like to make a lot of assumptions when posting. Nowhere did I infer you needed to be a network engineer to know what QoS is.
If you had an unlimited 56k dial-up service, would you complain about not being able to watch Youtube, because, dammit you paid for it?

No you wouldn't as the limitation is on the availability of the provider to provide you with what you need. Your expectations are incorrect due to poor assumptions about how wireless broadband works.

You don't just wave a magic wand and bandwidth appears, it has to be planned for. For example if in your company's relocation you ordered a 5 T1's which you only used a fraction of, you would be canned easily.

Now imagine that in a given metropolitan area you may have 148 of these different buildings (cell sites) and without proper due diligence and research you are tasked with adding T1's to the sites. Due to the inherent transient nature of people with phones, it is very difficult (note I am not saying impossible) to implement and forward a sound plan.

All solutions also take time. You don't just run in acting like "Johnny on the Spot" and shotgun in any changes without thinking about the impact on the rest of the network. Wireless used to do this in the infancy of analog to digital conversions and they paid out the ass for it. This is not how you do planning on a high availability wireless network. Period. You also don't just throw backhaul at the problem as you also have the air interface to consider. Will a newly created carrier cause more harm than good? Will it raise the noise-floor? Will the new carrier propagate correctly? There's more to it than just plain old backhaul.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: jersiq
This is all achieved through QoS. Every 3G wireless network mostly supports QoS from the aggregation level to the air interface as well. Would you complain if you paid for the "gold" package and were able to stream Hulu to your phone?

If I paid for the "Unlimited Data Plan" I expect to get it. I don't care if the company thinks I'm watching too many YouTube videos, downloading too many apps, getting too many e-mails, etc. I paid for it.

And you didn't answer my other question.

LOL, I didn't realize you had to be a "network planner" to know what QoS is, but to answer your question, yes, I have been involved in network planning when my company relocated to a new facility along with two other companies.

Wow, you sure do like to make a lot of assumptions when posting. Nowhere did I infer you needed to be a network engineer to know what QoS is.
If you had an unlimited 56k dial-up service, would you complain about not being able to watch Youtube, because, dammit you paid for it?

Nope. I'd be mad if every time I dialed in, I kept getting busy signals and disconnects. Or when I do get connected, Internet speed is 14.4k speed because the service was oversubscribed.

No you wouldn't as the limitation is on the availability of the provider to provide you with what you need. Your expectations are incorrect due to poor assumptions about how wireless broadband works.

You don't just wave a magic wand and bandwidth appears, it has to be planned for. For example if in your company's relocation you ordered a 5 T1's which you only used a fraction of, you would be canned easily.

Now imagine that in a given metropolitan area you may have 148 of these different buildings (cell sites) and without proper due diligence and research you are tasked with adding T1's to the sites. Due to the inherent transient nature of people with phones, it is very difficult (note I am not saying impossible) to implement and forward a sound plan.

All solutions also take time. You don't just run in acting like "Johnny on the Spot" and shotgun in any changes without thinking about the impact on the rest of the network. Wireless used to do this in the infancy of analog to digital conversions and they paid out the ass for it. This is not how you do planning on a high availability wireless network. Period. You also don't just throw backhaul at the problem as you also have the air interface to consider. Will a newly created carrier cause more harm than good? Will it raise the noise-floor? Will the new carrier propagate correctly? There's more to it than just plain old backhaul.

That's great and all, but do you really think the average AT&T Wireless customer who is paying $20/$30 a month really cares about all the technical details? Do they listen to the network engineers drone on about technological limitations, number cell cites, etc. and say to themselves, "Ahhh, I see. That's understandable."?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Zensal
What is it that is actually limiting factor? Is it the actual wireless spectrum, or is it the data pipes to the towers/lack of wireless hardware on the towers?

If it is the wireless, then I guess people will have to live with it until things move to WiMAX or 4G or whatever. You can't change the laws of physics.

If it is the data pipes to the towers themselves or lack of wireless transmitters/receivers on the towers themselves, then AT&T just needs to step it up. People pay stupid amounts of money for those plans. Give them what they pay for.

The ultimate limiting factor is wireless spectrum, and even WiMax doesn't solve that problem. There are areas where the problem is indeed backhaul capacity, but even if you fixed that you would still have less tahn 100Mb per cell tower. That's at a minimum hundreds and hundreds of phones. You simply can't get enough bandwidth out of wireless to come anywhere close in competing with wired services.

 

[Tom]

lots of discussion that has nothing to do with the topic..

Hulu isn't being blocked by wireless isps, it's being blocked by Hulu itself, apparently at the behest of media companies. Nothing to do with isps or bandwidth.

Google Voice is being blocked because it competes with ATT services.

Neither has ANYTHING to do with bandwidth capabilities.

If wireless bandwidth was an issue, how is it that Sprint offers Sprint TV over their wireless network ? Verizon does the same.

 

[GregGreen]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: spidey07
The wireless networks can't handle all that video. There's a HUGE difference between watching video on your broadband connection and cellular wireless. Huge.

Not the customers' problem.

You are going to see wireless data prices get much more expensive, very soon (I can't tell you how I know this or from where, but it's true) so in a way it will become the customers problem.

And watch those potential customers go elsewhere. And how are they going to raise the data plan rates on existing customers?

The plan is to limit, cap or slow down their connection via reasonable network management practices.

You mean by only having EDGE data everywhere -- its a pretty good deterrent to keep me off any sites that arent iPhone or WAP optimized....