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Blizzard to offer compensation, refunds for poor service of Diablo 3

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Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
2,448
4
81
This metaphor doesn't work.
I see your point but I don't make the distinction. I see Blizzard providing working servers as equivilent to my ISP routing traffic. The game itself is irrelevant. It's about service. Whether it worked properly for 5 minutes or 5 years prior to having problems, those problems are a failure to provide advertised service. You see it as two parts being, ISP and game. I see it as three parts being ISP, connectivity and game. I don't blame you as traditionally we never tend to think of game companies providing a service since games are often a one time purchase. Maybe this isn't what you meant but I stand by what I said. However I can see the merit in what you said also.

Let's replace Diablo 3 with your car. Imagine you buy a new Chevrolet, and unlike previous models this particular car requires a constant OnStar connection to operate. Now, you get into your car, insert the key and turn it. Nothing happens. It takes you a couple minutes to learn that the OnStar servers are down because they couldn't handle the load of all the new cars that require it to operate. Suddenly, you realize that even though you handed over a stack of cash for this car, it is worthless to you unless GM keeps the OnStar servers up and running. The guy who sold you the car told you how robust and awesome the OnStar system was and that you had nothing to worry about, but here you are, borrowing rides from your neighbor for the first three days of new car ownership all because GM couldn't hold up their end of the deal. Do you think that is acceptable? What about 6 months down the line...12 months? Is it ever acceptable?

I'm not presuming to say that a game is the same thing as a car, but the principle is the same. Whether you pay a monthly fee or not, if developers are going to force us to depend on them to keep our software working, then we should discard the tradition of accomodating failure as a normal thing and start expecting a certain level of performance out of the gate. It doesn't matter to us how they get to that point, only that they do.

Anyways, my overall point was that as games become more dependent on internet access to even operate, our tolerance for day one problems should be inversely proportional.
 
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KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,884
7
0
Read the post again, because your response makes absolutely no sense.

The gist is that I'm not surprised at the OP's overall negative tone in his post. It's like when I saw Batuleur post about the MacBook Pro in the Apple sub-forum. I was pretty damn sure that the tone would be negative before I even looked. Sure enough, I wasn't surprised. :p



So, Blizzard should buy tons of equipment to facilitate what amounts to a few days worth of a usage spike? Pretty sure they don't teach that in Business 101. :p

Yes, it sucks that the game wasn't that playable. Did it affect me? Yes, it did. I paid for the (collector's edition of the) game, and wasn't really able to play it. I guess it helps that some gamers are used to how server-based games are a bit shaky at launch. Although, I recall someone in the Diablo III thread getting a refund, which means it should be possible here too.



I did some Googling to try and find the numbers at Rift's launch. It seems Diablo III sold around 4x as many games. Also, I found some people saying something along the lines of, "Hey, Rift has unprecedented demand... don't blame them for launch server issues." So... are you right in that they didn't have problems or are these random forum posters (on Rift-related forums) correct?
I played during the beta and launch and I can tell you there was no problems (and if there were they were very minor or effect very few as I knew a lot of people who played). The only problem I think (and can't even remember 100% to be sure) was they had to take the servers down a few times for about an hour each time so they could add more servers and infrastructure to keep up with demand. So instead of server crashes or just being almost unplayable to would take it down before it go to critical mass and would reinforce it with more infrastructure and have it back up in an hour instead of the server crashing and it being down for half the day. The only other problem as I mentioned was if you joined a high population server, you joined a queue before you could get on to that server, you were free to make a character on another server though and play immediately if you wished instead. The game did much better then they were anticipating as well and adjusted quickly to many more people then they originally thought they were going to have as well.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
78
86
This metaphor doesn't work.

What you are missing is that withan ISP, my internet has been working fine (except for a few hiccups here and there for 2-3 years now). So if it was to cause an issue all the sudden that made my connection be lost for a few days, yes I would be upset.

Same as if Diablo 3 was running perfectly for a year or 2, and all the sudden the servers are on meltdown for a week or 2 when nothing changed (aka patch/expansion). I will be upset. Because it WAS working just fine before.

Whenever any service/software launch happens, and there are hiccups, I understand. As theory and realism are 2 very different relms.

Sure maybe the game was flawless to them by release (which I will admit I doubt as stress test 2-3 weeks prior couldnt even been done correctly as so many issues) in theory and towhat tests they gave it. But minute the servers open and they open up and enter the relm of "realism" it wasn't good enough, and they wouldn't have known this unless doing said opening of servers. (Game runs fine now doesn't it?)

Again: Shorthand - Metaphor is wrong. Diablo was launched, ISP has had me connected for a long while. Losing something that has proven to work for years is not the same as something working the minute it is released when it wasn't fully tested to that capacity.
The metaphor was perfect for me. In fact, my ISP install mimics my Diablo 3 launch so close I'd think they were the same. Upon first getting internet installed into my new place, with a new ISP, I had such poor quality speeds (less than 0.01 MB/s up), I could do almost nothing on the internet. Now, it took them 2 days and 2 service visits to get me up and running and I haven't had an issue since.

Also, in buying the license to play Diablo 3, you agreed that you may or may not have access to the service at Blizzard's discretion.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,794
825
126
Also, in buying the license to play Diablo 3, you agreed that you may or may not have access to the service at Blizzard's discretion.
These arguments are such jokes. Go buy food that's rotten, go buy a car that doesn't run, (or if you want to be anal about itellectual property), go buy a movie that is defective and doesn't play, or even a streaming service that is always down.

This mentality that you should just expect it and accept it can be summed up by the dumbing down of our society. Idiocracy here we come. Brought to you by the same people working McD's.
 

VashHT

Platinum Member
Feb 1, 2007
2,626
231
106
These arguments are such jokes. Go buy food that's rotten, go buy a car that doesn't run, (or if you want to be anal about itellectual property), go buy a movie that is defective and doesn't play, or even a streaming service that is always down.

This mentality that you should just expect it and accept it can be summed up by the dumbing down of our society. Idiocracy here we come. Brought to you by the same people working McD's.
Diablo 3 isn't always down, I haven't had problems since the day it launched, and even then I played for about 3 hours before I got kicked off. All of the other services you list go down too, cars break down, streaming services go down sometimes, food goes rotten after you buy it. Claiming that accepting a couple days of patchy service from a video game is leading to the downfall of society is rich though, that's a huge leap you made there..lol.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,081
1,206
126
Just putting the information out there. Blizzard dropped the ball with Diablo 3 both in terms of quality of game, quality of service provided and monetization up the ass.

If you are a hardcore blizzard fanboy, that is your prerogative. Personally I bought every title they released and enjoyed them all until Diablo 3. I still do not have an emotional attachment to them, they released a pile of shit and have done some questionable moves related to said pile. I'm not interested in eating a shit sandwich and asking for seconds.

This game is a disaster. People are actually now starting to complete charge backs on RMAH purchases they made because of the items receiving nerfs. Also note, if you were the seller of any of the items that the buyer does a charge back on, guess what ?, you'll find your account suspended/banned while Blizzard contends with the charge backs. RMAH screws going in and coming out. Blizzard brought all this on themselves via greed and putting out a lacklustre game.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,794
825
126
Diablo 3 isn't always down, I haven't had problems since the day it launched, and even then I played for about 3 hours before I got kicked off. All of the other services you list go down too, cars break down, streaming services go down sometimes, food goes rotten after you buy it. Claiming that accepting a couple days of patchy service from a video game is leading to the downfall of society is rich though, that's a huge leap you made there..lol.
What part of this conversation is about "you"? YOU haven't had issues, but obviously many people have. Therefore, since YOU don't have problems, the problem doesn't exist and doesn't need addressed?

And if you buy OTHER things and they don't work day 1, day 2, etc - you can get a refund. So no, not a stretch at all. Quit thinking small and that this is about "you".
 

power_hour

Senior member
Oct 16, 2010
789
1
0
I will bet a box of donuts most of their servers are virtualized and over provisioned. The new trend is to over promise under deliver and expect users to just take it.

I hope you Diablo guys get something for your troubles. But the always online thing to play a single player game is complete bullshit. You guys should have boycotted that crap.
 

Dominato3r

Diamond Member
Aug 15, 2008
5,114
1
0
Just putting the information out there. Blizzard dropped the ball with Diablo 3 both in terms of quality of game, quality of service provided and monetization up the ass.

If you are a hardcore blizzard fanboy, that is your prerogative. Personally I bought every title they released and enjoyed them all until Diablo 3. I still do not have an emotional attachment to them, they released a pile of shit and have done some questionable moves related to said pile. I'm not interested in eating a shit sandwich and asking for seconds.

This game is a disaster. People are actually now starting to complete charge backs on RMAH purchases they made because of the items receiving nerfs. Also note, if you were the seller of any of the items that the buyer does a charge back on, guess what ?, you'll find your account suspended/banned while Blizzard contends with the charge backs. RMAH screws going in and coming out. Blizzard brought all this on themselves via greed and putting out a lacklustre game.
I haven't had this much fun playing a game with friends since MW2 or Halo3. Disaster is hyperbole, many enjoy this game.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,401
238
106
What part of this conversation is about "you"? YOU haven't had issues, but obviously many people have. Therefore, since YOU don't have problems, the problem doesn't exist and doesn't need addressed?

And if you buy OTHER things and they don't work day 1, day 2, etc - you can get a refund. So no, not a stretch at all. Quit thinking small and that this is about "you".
While I agree with this, your comparisons are way off. Rotten food doesn't ever become good again over time, etc. They aren't good comparisons and try to make the problem sound worse than it really is. All it takes is patience, and some people don't have that. Fine. Take it back.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
78
86
The best part is that Blizzard will just start doing soft launches. Activating their servers a few days before the release date. Everyone will know its up but they will be covered because it launches in a week.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
Yes yes we get it diesbudt, you're a huge fanboi and are going to defend your company from any criticism levied against it. Do you work for Blizzard or have a financial stake in the company?
No, not a fanboi. If I was a fanboi of any company it would be Valve.

People are just spouting off incorrect statements or opinions acting like they are facts. I am just here to correct them, that is all.

Whether you can accept this or not and just call off fanboi when you have no counterpoint is meaningless to me.
 
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diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
I see your point but I don't make the distinction. I see Blizzard providing working servers as equivilent to my ISP routing traffic. The game itself is irrelevant. It's about service. Whether it worked properly for 5 minutes or 5 years prior to having problems, those problems are a failure to provide advertised service. You see it as two parts being, ISP and game.

[...]

Anyways, my overall point was that as games become more dependent on internet access to even operate, our tolerance for day one problems should be inversely proportional.
You are assuming though that a server for each different game will have the same exact issues, and that they will be able to foretell that because of it. When in reality, each game's server is programmed differently and acts differently.

First week hiccups will always happen with software. The degree of which it is (whether servers down 50%+ of the time like D3, or small bugs and latency issues like Rift) will vary depending on how much effort the company puts into testing the product before release.

That is where diablo 3 failed. They had 1 weekend stress test and it was literally down 75% of the time because too many people were on their servers.

They should have held at minimum 1 more stress test after fixing that big problem, so they could be better prepared. However with a release date already announced and so close at that point they decided against it. Poor judgment.


Even though D3 failed, people still should have guessed it would have issues, especially those that tried during the stress test weekend. That was Hell.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
Just putting the information out there. Blizzard dropped the ball with Diablo 3 both in terms of quality of game, quality of service provided and monetization up the ass.

If you are a hardcore blizzard fanboy, that is your prerogative. Personally I bought every title they released and enjoyed them all until Diablo 3. I still do not have an emotional attachment to them, they released a pile of shit and have done some questionable moves related to said pile. I'm not interested in eating a shit sandwich and asking for seconds.

This game is a disaster. People are actually now starting to complete charge backs on RMAH purchases they made because of the items receiving nerfs. Also note, if you were the seller of any of the items that the buyer does a charge back on, guess what ?, you'll find your account suspended/banned while Blizzard contends with the charge backs. RMAH screws going in and coming out. Blizzard brought all this on themselves via greed and putting out a lacklustre game.
I will agree on the quality of service as they could have done much more on the RMAH on those issues, and prepared for a better launch through more stress tests, but the game overall I find enjoyable and up to my standards. And it is your opinion that the game isn't up to quality. Not a fact.

And before anyone tries saying "But everyone else agrees so it must be true"

95% of the world in the 700-1000s knew/assumed the world was flat. Just because everyone agrees on something does not make a statement/opinion a fact.
 

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
7,319
4
76
I will bet a box of donuts most of their servers are virtualized and over provisioned. The new trend is to over promise under deliver and expect users to just take it.
I was thinking the same thing, not for the sake of over promising and under delivering, but for the simple fact that certain release dates (patch days, new releases) draw a much larger population. I would think they virtualize so they can easily reallocate load balance and quickly reassign resources when needed. Especially if on normal days many of these servers are under utilized.

But then again, maybe they have separate server farms for each game, and the allocations are static. It would explain some of the logon issues they repeatedly have on release days. Who knows.
 

VashHT

Platinum Member
Feb 1, 2007
2,626
231
106
What part of this conversation is about "you"? YOU haven't had issues, but obviously many people have. Therefore, since YOU don't have problems, the problem doesn't exist and doesn't need addressed?

And if you buy OTHER things and they don't work day 1, day 2, etc - you can get a refund. So no, not a stretch at all. Quit thinking small and that this is about "you".
Well I'm not really saying that Blizzard should be doing nothing, just saying that some people are probably exaggerating how big the problems are, at least here in the US.

As far as addressing the problem goes, hasn't Blizzard been doing this? People in other D3 threads mentioned they called blizzard and got a refund for the game, so it's not like they're being dicks about it. If they aren't giving refunds for boxed versions they should be, I won't argue there.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,902
567
126
If you are a hardcore blizzard fanboy, that is your prerogative. Personally I bought every title they released and enjoyed them all until Diablo 3. I still do not have an emotional attachment to them, they released a pile of shit and have done some questionable moves related to said pile. I'm not interested in eating a shit sandwich and asking for seconds.
I don't see how having an understanding necessarily equates to being a "hardcore blizzard fanboy". I actually barely even play the game anymore as the other night was the first time that I played in about a week. I'd actually much rather play Torchlight II or Borderlands II, but neither of them are out yet. I've also got Darksiders II on pre-oder. This seems to be the "Year of the II". :hmm:

Personally, I wasn't surprised by the game being rather rocky for the first day or two. As much as some people may want it, the game is played completely online, and introducing such a title in a popular franchise will probably result in a huge surge.

Huge surge + online component (usually) = major problems.

Blizzard did run a stress test on their servers prior to release; however, if I recall, the turnout was only between 1-2 million. Even if Blizzard assumed a 100% increase in retail players over stress testers, that's still considerably off the 6.5 million (obvious note: this number may not accurately reflect the people trying to play on the first day).

This game is a disaster. People are actually now starting to complete charge backs on RMAH purchases they made because of the items receiving nerfs. Also note, if you were the seller of any of the items that the buyer does a charge back on, guess what ?, you'll find your account suspended/banned while Blizzard contends with the charge backs. RMAH screws going in and coming out. Blizzard brought all this on themselves via greed and putting out a lacklustre game.
Who are they contesting with? I hope they're not instituting charge backs on their credit cards that were used with PayPal, because PayPal does not like that. Contesting with PayPal probably won't result in any refunds... at least I wouldn't suspect it.
 
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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
23,003
772
126
I just started playing skyrim right now, and i can't, for the life of me, figure out the appeal of diablo 3, unless you're playing it exclusively for online play with friends. Skyrim is so much better.
 

gladiatorua

Member
Nov 21, 2011
145
0
0
Was this really worth it for Blizzard? I understand launch hiccups. But they have many years of online game experience. But I understand. They could do the whole thing so much better. Without so much downtime or at least give customers refunds. There wouldn't be so many people asking for them anyway.
Maybe they wanted to appear on news sites couple more times?
Why do they "spend" their customer loyalty so easily? "When it's ready" wasn't true for a long time. It's more like "what would they cut from release this time". And now D3 mess.
Oh, Blizzard. Why did you choose the dark side?
 

masterxfob

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
7,366
3
81
i really like the game, but it feels like a beta with the bugs and recent .03 patch. can't complain though, i've gotten many hours of entertainment out of it and have made a few hundred dollars in the process.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
78
86
Personally, I wasn't surprised by the game being rather rocky for the first day or two. As much as some people may want it, the game is played completely online, and introducing such a title in a popular franchise will probably result in a huge surge.

Huge surge + online component (usually) = major problems.
.
You played WoW. You know Blizzard is terrible on patch Tuesdays so of course launches are going to be terrible.


As far as charge backs, I can't see that going through. The CC company might originally do that, however, Blizzard can show proof you got the xx amount of BattleNet dollars to purchase your item. That is what you paid for. Not the item itself. Good luck trying to scam Blizzard on this. Not only will they ban you, they will get your money as well.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
81
They should offer a refund for being a shitty game (compared to what they used to deliver) It's like buying an American car in the 1980s once good turned to utter garbage and cost of ownership very high.
 

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