Blizzard Delays Titan MMO

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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,365
889
126
I don't know of any MMO sequels that have surpassed or even remotely gotten close to the success of the original. Blizzard wouldn't do a WoW2.
I agree. To ask an existing player to give up all of their progression that they've accumulated over around 8.5 years to start over in a world that's barely any different than the current one... that's just ludicrous. MMOs have largely become about the end-game, and it's easy to ask someone to spend time gaining five to ten levels to resume their end-game content, but to go through another 50 to 60? No. Just no!

I think that was the biggest problem with Diablo III. I was pretty tired with the grinding in WoW when I started to play Diablo III, and it was pretty fun at first. However, once I realized that I had to play the game three times to get to the "real game", I just gave up. Borderlands 2 has the exact same problem. You can play the game through once to get to the real game, and now Gearbox made it so that previous "real game" is now only a stepping stone to the "real real game." (i.e. UVHM) :rolleyes:

It doesn't bode anything for the game. Both WC3 and WoW had scrapping/redesign phases and if Morhaime hadn't sold the company out, D3 probably wouldn't have been released as soon as it was.
Nearly 12 years is considered "as soon as it was" now? :p
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,541
449
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WoW was lightning in a bottle. If Blizzard is going to make another MMO that won't compete with WoW then it will not be as successful, because WoW had (still has to some extent) the right amount of difficulty, punishment for failure, and rewards for an MMO to be wildly successful.

By trying to create an MMO that won't compete with WoW they're, gimping themselves. Good idea for Titan comes up? Check to see if it's too much like something WoW might do. Damn... Well maybe we'll put it in WoW

It could be that Titan wasn't bad but was actually "too much like WoW."
Because of the ideas required to make it new but still accessible to average player but deep enough if someone for whatever reason wanted to "no-life" Titan would unfortunately step on that "Don't make Titan compete with WoW" rule.

Probably no one can make another WoW unless the time is right. And the right set of circumstances might never come when a gaming company is ready to take advantage again.

My personal opinion on the issue, Titan is going to be free to play.
I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard ended up following the GW2 model a bit. Buy the box or "Game Key" from a site, then login to the servers to play for free. With currency that you can buy for cosmetic and minor "non raiding" game advantages.
 
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Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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I agree. To ask an existing player to give up all of their progression that they've accumulated over around 8.5 years to start over in a world that's barely any different than the current one... that's just ludicrous. MMOs have largely become about the end-game, and it's easy to ask someone to spend time gaining five to ten levels to resume their end-game content, but to go through another 50 to 60? No. Just no!
And nobody ever gets bored with a game and moves on? If that was the case most of us would still be playing doom.

In the past 10 - 11 years my step-son (I do not play MMO) has gone from Dark Age of Camelot, to WOW, to Warhammer online, back to WOW and now he is playing guildwars 2,,, plus a few other games he played.


I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard ended up following the GW2 model a bit. Buy the box or "Game Key" from a site, then login to the servers to play for free. With currency that you can buy for cosmetic and minor "non raiding" game advantages.
It seems like every couple of months another FTP game hits Steam.

Why go to a store, buy a game, go home, install, update, create an account, enter payment information,, when you can download steam for free, browse the free MMOs, install and play.
 
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Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
Blizzard is just going to hold Titan back until they feel they can't milk WoW any longer. They are fully aware that a new Blizzard MMO will be the only thing that could possibly kill WoW. Because of this they will just wait until they feel WoW has run its course, then drop Titan. They will phase out WoW just like an old Windows version and move people to the new MMO. If they moved Titan back a few years its simply because they feel they can keep WoW going that long.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
I suspect the delay is because of WOW subs dropping off fast they want a MMO that has lasting power as it was. When they first announced it wow was still doing ok, well financially it still is, but playerbase wise not so good.
This. They assumed WoW would be unstoppable forever, and now they're realizing it's going to fall into a niche eventually.

I've past a point of caring about what Blizzard is releasing although if Titan ends up good I won't be past getting it.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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This. They assumed WoW would be unstoppable forever, and now they're realizing it's going to fall into a niche eventually.

I've past a point of caring about what Blizzard is releasing although if Titan ends up good I won't be past getting it.
Maybe 2016 is when blizzard expects WOW to no longer be profitable?

Instead of having two games competing against each other, time one to be released when the other is on its deathbed.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
Maybe 2016 is when blizzard expects WOW to no longer be profitable?

Instead of having two games competing against each other, time one to be released when the other is on its deathbed.
The thing is they were originally designing it to avoid competing with WoW, which is probably what made it's current iteration beyond repair. Now, they don't think they need to avoid it.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Compared to it's condition at release and previous experience wih the company holding a product back, yes.
 

Mushkins

Golden Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,631
0
0
The thing is they were originally designing it to avoid competing with WoW, which is probably what made it's current iteration beyond repair. Now, they don't think they need to avoid it.
The "it wont compete with WoW" line is pure marketing hype BS. It's an MMORPG, they *all* compete with each other. FFXI competes with FFXIV, EQ still competes with EQ2, publisher and theme matter very little when most players dedicate themselves to a single MMO at a time. It can't *not* compete with WoW unless they take WoW offline entirely.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
WoW isn't even remotely falling off yet. It's still the gold standard for MMOs in terms of staying power, population, penetration, and more. It's gone from "absolutely massive" to "marginally less absolutely massive" at worst.

I definitely agree that it'll be hard to pull people away from a world they've invested so much time and money in over the years though; and while they may not intend for Titan to compete with WoW, I think the "MMOG" genre (market?) is muddied/homogenized enough that all of them more or less compete together. I think the really only true divide between them is "free" vs "paid", so maybe Titan could be free to play; or do like Diablo and Guild Wars with the 'pay up front, no sub' model.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
If there is any truth to the timing of 2016 to start a new one on wow's deathbed, oh no. Same UI and stuff incoming.
 

JimmyH

Member
Jul 13, 2000
182
12
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This is bad news for blizzard. WoW is bleeding subs fast. 1.3 million subs gone last quarter. My guild of 30+ completely disintegrated w/ how easy last raid of Cataclysm was. I'd say 40 came back beginning for new expansion and all left wi/ 2 months. These were people who own every blizzard game ever made and many had been sub'd since vanilla. There not coming back, I'm not coming back and my old server is a ghost town. Most went on to F2P games like League of Legends or FPS like BF3. We still talk on vent but zero enthusiasm for any blizzard product.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/vivendi-considering-variety-of-options-for-activision-blizzard-sale-6408386

WoW is tanking big time and Call of Duty series w/ quake 3 engine is in serious trouble once console kiddies can see what Battlefield plays like on next gen consoles. Are they are tanking there products in an effort to drive down stock price to get away from the Frenchies (ie Vivendi)? I know put away the tinfoil hat :biggrin:
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,365
889
126
And nobody ever gets bored with a game and moves on? If that was the case most of us would still be playing doom.

In the past 10 - 11 years my step-son (I do not play MMO) has gone from Dark Age of Camelot, to WOW, to Warhammer online, back to WOW and now he is playing guildwars 2,,, plus a few other games he played.
:confused: Your tone suggests that you're disagreeing with me, but your words don't. I'm saying that a sequel to WoW that's along the same vein would not be fresh enough for players. Expansions work well enough, because they don't try and toss you back in the shallow end of the pool, but more like the middle of the pool. So, what I'm saying is that people would get bored when they realize all the effort that they would have to do to get back to the "deep end" when they realize the game isn't really anything new.

EDIT:

WoW is bleeding subs fast. 1.3 million subs gone last quarter.
I think a lot of people ignore the fact that Blizzard said that most of those were Eastern subscribers (e.g. China). It's also worthwhile to mention that those players don't pay a monthly fee to play. I think it's a rather paltry hourly rate.

My guild of 30+ completely disintegrated w/ how easy last raid of Cataclysm was.
I have to ask... did you beat it on heroic?

I'd say 40 came back beginning for new expansion and all left wi/ 2 months. These were people who own every blizzard game ever made and many had been sub'd since vanilla. There not coming back
I think that's more of what Texas was talking about... the players just get tired of playing and doing the same thing over and over. I finally quit after about 7 years (I started in open beta) as I was just tired. I didn't even want to log in for raid nights near the end, but I did anyway.
 
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Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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Something that I am not seeing talked about is the subscription cost and the economy.

Middle class families are being squeezed. Why would someone pay a monthly subscription fee when there are so many other options out there?

Between paying for interent and a WOW subscription you are talking almost $100 every month.

something else to consider is the age of the WOW community.

What is the average age of a WOW player?

What was the average age of a WOW player when it was released as compared to now? Maybe a lot of WOW players were teenagers who finally finished school and are going off to college? Mommy and daddy are not paying for their subscription anymore.
 
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TidusZ

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2007
1,765
2
81
I have to ask... did you beat it on heroic?
Sometimes blizzard releases raid content that the top guilds finish in 1 or 2 nights, other times it takes a couple months. It's a legit complaint that some of the raids are too easy and farming easy bosses for 2 hours a week can be pretty boring when there is 6 months between content patches. The time between ICC and cata release was over a year and in that time only 1 boss (halion) came out and it was a 1 to 2 nighter.

If my old guild somehow got back together and could compete in top 10 world on <20 hr/week schedule I'd probably go back and play but the problem with the game now is all the good guilds raid 80/week which is retarded. Half the players in top guilds now aren't even good and would not have been in a top guild a few years ago - but with talent leaving the player pool, guilds just raid more hours with worse players to try and be #1. I actually did try to get back into the game in MoP, which is where I saw all of this and then quit again forever.

- tiduz (cuties only)
 
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JimmyH

Member
Jul 13, 2000
182
12
81
I have to ask... did you beat it on heroic?
7/7 regular first week both 10m. We got stuck 2nd week on spine 5/7 heroic. Note my 10m never cleared any raid from BC onwards on reg in two weeks let alone 5/7 heroic. Both 10m stagnate w/ raid attendance probs from people burnt out and subs lost. I get 7/7 heroic with what is left of two 10m combine and thereafter unsub.



I think that's more of what Texas was talking about... the players just get tired of playing and doing the same thing over and over. I finally quit after about 7 years (I started in open beta) as I was just tired. I didn't even want to log in for raid nights near the end, but I did anyway.
I think that sums up how most in my guild felt. Tired and burnt out of same ole same ole.
 

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
7,318
4
76
I suspect the delay is because of WOW subs dropping off fast they want a MMO that has lasting power as it was. When they first announced it wow was still doing ok, well financially it still is, but playerbase wise not so good.
WoW's playerbase will always decrease the longer an expansion is out. People max out their chars then put their accounts "on hold" until the new expansion comes out. I cancel my sub each cycle to save some money (and avoid getting bored with the game), and so do most people I play with.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Something that I am not seeing talked about is the subscription cost and the economy.

Middle class families are being squeezed. Why would someone pay a monthly subscription fee when there are so many other options out there?

Between paying for interent and a WOW subscription you are talking almost $100 every month.

something else to consider is the age of the WOW community.

What is the average age of a WOW player?

What was the average age of a WOW player when it was released as compared to now? Maybe a lot of WOW players were teenagers who finally finished school and are going off to college? Mommy and daddy are not paying for their subscription anymore.
I like the subscription model.

To me that's a fair deal, you pay for the game, they give you a fun game - the F2P model is IMO incenting them to give you a crippled game to force you to want to buy things.

I think of 'free' as a marketing gimmick. Nothing wrong with a fair price instead.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
I thought it was too bad the WoW magazine was shut down. It was a nice product. You'd have thought with all the WoW players...
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
You can't really talk about wow numbers in any meaningful way unless you have hard details on the NA/Europe subscribers, which no one does. All the financial reports have menioned is that the big swings are mostly located among the non-profitable far east.
 

Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
1,371
1
81
After playing WoT for 2 years I actually prefer the subscription model. You get a complete game, no excuses, and in the end also cheaper.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,090
1,242
126
WoW has bled 2.1 million subs since the release of the most recent xpac, that was less than one year ago. They are on record in their earnings call as forecasting they will continue to lose subs at that same rate going forward until the next expansion. The game is ancient at this point. I started playing it in the early closed beta, made a lot of great friends. Played the game through the initial game and then Burning Crusade and got bored quickly into the Lich King expansion. I'd be hard pressed to find anyone left that still plays the game any more that I played with in the beginning. It can't bring in new subs as replacements for as fast as it's bleeding subs. From the sounds of Activision/Blizzard's earnings call it's hitting a tipping point of rapid subscription drop-off. The bulk of players are not even in NA, most are in Asia with a large portion also in the EU.

I still show up at the new expansions and try it for a month, then get bored to tears and stop playing. The game is too repetitive after all these years and they've changed too much of what made it appealing to try to appeal to a new demographic of MMO players. They basically created their own specific tablet gamer-type niche with WoW after big game changes that came in the Lich King expansion and onwards. The game is more about Pokemon and playing dress-up than it is an RPG any more.

I have my doubts about anything Blizzard does going forward. The quality of their games is going down hill. Diablo 3 was an utter disaster capitalized on the value of a previously established franchise. Any expansion to that game will be trash as well most likely and fail to deliver the sales numbers the initial game did now that they raped the franchise's name for a quick buck. WoW has become a mostly mindless grind that has lost its magic.

Canning Titan likely does have everything to do with WoW faltering. It's all about the $$$ at this point. It's more cost efficient to grind development resources to a halt on a game that is not released or generating any revenue, rather it's costing money with uncertain returns, and use those resources to try to shine up the good old cow and see if it can be squeezed for a few more rounds of milk.

The reality may very well be that WoW was a flash in the pan, not easily or ever repeated. They may now be realizing that with a lot of the talent gone from the company that helped to create those old franchises that they can't make games that will have the longevity of success like they could in the past. Better to try and bolster WoW, which is a known successful quantity, than try to start a long-term success from the ground floor. They failed with Diablo 3 and I doubt they could do it with a new MMO if they managed to ah heck up a sequel to a game that had a rabid following. Especially a brand new IP which unlike D3 wouldn't have any established IP value to make initial box sales on.
 

MichaelBarg

Member
Oct 30, 2012
70
0
0
Grooveriding:

I largely agree. I played WoW from launch until I got through Lich King. I was never as dedicated as some players, only ever levelling one character to the top. Nonetheless I made some great friends and had some great times in that game.* I have lots of ideas about what I liked about the game at different times, and why it's shrinking now... but I'm not sure they're very interesting. Ultimately I don't think it is replicable. WoW at it's peak was an incredible combination of good IP, good game mechanics, good community, and really excellent implementation. It made $1 billion+ in annual revenue.

Now many years later I am married have a family and a busy job, and will never have the same time to play games again... at least not until I retire. But a really good, groundbreaking MMO could get me to play it a lot. I don't even know what it would be, and this reboot makes me think Blizzard doesn't really either. Reading this thread I obviously have a different opinion of Starcraft 2 (I quite enjoyed it) than most people around herebut I would rather see Bliz spend their profits from WoW trying to make lightning strike twice than play it safe. We will see of course if it turns out to be any good, but a WoW clone won't be.


*The best was my guild beating Garr for the first time, way back in Classic - I played a Lock and that fight was the first time you ever truly needed a Lock. But it was also back in classic.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,365
889
126
Sometimes blizzard releases raid content that the top guilds finish in 1 or 2 nights, other times it takes a couple months. It's a legit complaint that some of the raids are too easy and farming easy bosses for 2 hours a week can be pretty boring when there is 6 months between content patches. The time between ICC and cata release was over a year and in that time only 1 boss (halion) came out and it was a 1 to 2 nighter.
Yeah, that's true. I always considered that some bosses were simply much, much less forgiving than others, and that was exacerbated when some bosses also had really tight timings. I think part of the problem is that some guilds spent awhile on the PTR to essentially help Blizzard and themselves, but they also ended up making the encounter far easier upon release because they were used to the mechanics.

I had varying success over the years in heroics as it really depended on my guild at the time. What held us back most of the time was just having poor players that we needed to fill our ranks.

the problem with the game now is all the good guilds raid 80/week which is retarded. Half the players in top guilds now aren't even good and would not have been in a top guild a few years ago - but with talent leaving the player pool, guilds just raid more hours with worse players to try and be #1.
That sounds... awful. I didn't mind the 3-4 days a week as long as it felt like we were making progress, but I don't need the equivalence of two more jobs! :eek:

tiduz (cuties only)
I remember that guild.

7/7 regular first week both 10m. We got stuck 2nd week on spine 5/7 heroic. Note my 10m never cleared any raid from BC onwards on reg in two weeks let alone 5/7 heroic. Both 10m stagnate w/ raid attendance probs from people burnt out and subs lost. I get 7/7 heroic with what is left of two 10m combine and thereafter unsub.
Ugh, I hated spine on my Rogue. I, like every other Rogue in existence, had the legendary daggers, and if my stacks were high enough to cause the proc to eat my stack while we were about to transition to the tendon, I had to sit there and do nothing. If I blew my stack, I would lose 35+ stacks of +17 agility or completely waste the buff, which gives you ridonkulous combo points. I just really felt like that fight completely worked against the mechanics of the daggers, and it annoyed me.

Middle class families are being squeezed. Why would someone pay a monthly subscription fee when there are so many other options out there?
Honestly, WoW kept me from spending so much money. When I don't play WoW, I get bored, go out and buy shit just because I can. So, do I be a shut-in that pays $15 a month to play a video game or spend lots more than that by going out often. :|
 

styrafoam

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2002
2,684
0
0
I think the initial draw of WoW was the interest in seeing the story from the warcraft games told in first person. They did a good job and it just snowballed over the years. Blizzard probably realized that titan has no such draw, and with all of the bridges they have burned lately they came to the conclusion that it needed to be something more than it was shaping up to be. I would bet that they also have learned a thing or two about micro transactions from diablo, and were force to come to grips with the how people used them and how blizzard themselves planned on implementing them in titan. The investment of time and money wasn't going to pay off, and the game would die on the vine like D3 is.

As a side note, every time there is a subscription drop Blizzard always adds the bit where they state that most of the loss came from China. Where they sublet the game, which is usually an expansion behind the rest of the world, to people who pay by the hour. Why do they even count these players? They probably don't, but they also don't want any sort of transparency on the issue so they dodge it. To admit that north america lost a million subscribers would have people demanding server mergers and transfers. Even though they have the exact numbers on paying subscribers by region they will never publish it because it would create a shit storm. This is how dumb they think people are. The server you play on is a ghost town because a million people in china didn't log in last week.
 
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