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Black-White-East Asian IQ differences at least 50% **

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Originally posted by: Kipper
Koing, I've screamed RACE DOES NOT BIOLOGICALLY EXIST from the rooftops in the last seven million posts I've made but you're still intent on reading race into everything, it seems.

I have nothing more to say. I've said what I intended to say.
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Hate to bump an old thread but while you are shouting that race doesn't biologically exist could you take a moment to explain this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4618749.stm
 
If you want to take the averages of intelligence of asians, caucasians and africans/whatever other race you could want, they will not be equal! Imagine the chances that the avg for everyone is EXACTLY 100.. heh.

But we know there will be differences, the question just is..how much? I always thought the differences were largely negligible...
 
Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
Originally posted by: Kipper
Koing, I've screamed RACE DOES NOT BIOLOGICALLY EXIST from the rooftops in the last seven million posts I've made but you're still intent on reading race into everything, it seems.

I have nothing more to say. I've said what I intended to say.
Click to expand...

Hate to bump an old thread but while you are shouting that race doesn't biologically exist could you take a moment to explain this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4618749.stm
Click to expand...


yeah I was going to say, the truth is, RACE DOES Biologically exisit, even if it makes up a tiny part of the genes, that's the reason why different race looks different, that's why there's a word "race".
 
Someone asked earlier why it seemed that if training was a larger factor in Kenyans' success as runners, why nobody else could simply train harder. The answer here is simple, they could, but they simply don't.

I remember reading an article that tackled this very topic, and some prominent Kenyan long-distance runners were asked about the training aspect. They had some very strong opinions on the matter. To paraphrase, they all basically stated that the vast majority of other cultures (US/Europe included) want to treat everything as a social event. Sure they may train for a while, and relatively hard at that, but then they go home and go to parties, or make public relations appearances, etc., detracting from the overall focus of their training. But when the Kenyans train, they dedicate every waking second to training. It totally consumes their lives. And when they are not training, they are simply resting, and mentally focused on the task ahead, often in solitude. There is NOTHING else. This is quite akin to why many Westerners are particularly ill-suited for learning such tasks as Buddhist meditation. Those who are unable to handle the days upon days of solitude, silence, and modest accomodations necessary to bring about the required level of introspective focus are quick to call the training retreats a "cult" as soon as their creature comforts like specific diet and dependence on material possessions appears to be threatened/compromised. 😕 I am a non-Buddhist, born and raised in Boston, and I doubt I'm ready at this point in my life to spend 10 days on such a track, though I am very interested in learning the meditation technique.

But I digress... Anyone willing to commit the proper amount of focus is capable of being on-par with the Kenyans, or anyone else. Anyone stating that a racial predetermination of suitability to the task at hand is a bigger influence than their ability or desire to do what is necessary to prepare is basically full of sh!t. Particularly since the differences illustrated are cultural and not "racial".

And Pepsei--biological conditions do not account for why the word "race" exists. The concept of "race" exists as a construct for defining superiority of one group over another--if historically one group had seen it fit to declare brunettes inferior to, say, blondes with blue eyes (see where this is going?), they would conveniently be determined to be another "race" as well...

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
 
Old wine, new bottle. These researchers should be embarassed, as should some of the posters in this thread.

1. IQ is meaningless.
2. 'Race' isn't real. What, humans have genetic differences? Next at 6, we're not all clones, different genes exist at different frequencies in different populations, and the sky is blue.
3. Genetic & physical differences are the result of adaptation to different environments. They are real.
4. All humans have culture - we all have language, we all have history. Anything else is a meaningless, non-scientific flawed comparison using one culture's standards as a measure of another's without regard to very relevant variables.
5. Why is a law journal addressing biology?
 

anyone wanna bet me a dollar to see if someone is product of their environment or to see if it is all genetic? maybe we can see Jamie Lee Curtis topless again or something...

😀
 
Originally posted by: AStar617
Someone asked earlier why it seemed that if training was a larger factor in Kenyans' success as runners, why nobody else could simply train harder. The answer here is simple, they could, but they simply don't.

I remember reading an article that tackled this very topic, and some prominent Kenyan long-distance runners were asked about the training aspect. They had some very strong opinions on the matter. To paraphrase, they all basically stated that the vast majority of other cultures (US/Europe included) want to treat everything as a social event. Sure they may train for a while, and relatively hard at that, but then they go home and go to parties, or make public relations appearances, etc., detracting from the overall focus of their training. But when the Kenyans train, they dedicate every waking second to training. It totally consumes their lives. And when they are not training, they are simply resting, and mentally focused on the task ahead, often in solitude. There is NOTHING else. This is quite akin to why many Westerners are particularly ill-suited for learning such tasks as Buddhist meditation. Those who are unable to handle the days upon days of solitude, silence, and modest accomodations necessary to bring about the required level of introspective focus are quick to call the training retreats a "cult" as soon as their creature comforts like specific diet and dependence on material possessions appears to be threatened/compromised. 😕 I am a non-Buddhist, born and raised in Boston, and I doubt I'm ready at this point in my life to spend 10 days on such a track, though I am very interested in learning the meditation technique.

But I digress... Anyone willing to commit the proper amount of focus is capable of being on-par with the Kenyans, or anyone else. Anyone stating that a racial predetermination of suitability to the task at hand is a bigger influence than their ability or desire to do what is necessary to prepare is basically full of sh!t. Particularly since the differences illustrated are cultural and not "racial".

And Pepsei--biological conditions do not account for why the word "race" exists. The concept of "race" exists as a construct for defining superiority of one group over another--if historically one group had seen it fit to declare brunettes inferior to, say, blondes with blue eyes (see where this is going?), they would conveniently be determined to be another "race" as well...

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Click to expand...

OK first other Kenyan runners have contadicted what you read. Secondly there is understandably a certain amount of pride among Kenyans toward their training this however does not dismiss the possibility of biological differences due to enviroment such as lung capacity. This is not likely genetic but other factors like their "bird legs" may be. It should also be noted that although running is popular throughout Kenya all the top marathon runners are from one tribe who live at high altitude.

The rest of that post...well......

 
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Old wine, new bottle. These researchers should be embarassed, as should some of the posters in this thread.

1. IQ is meaningless.
2. 'Race' isn't real. What, humans have genetic differences? Next at 6, we're not all clones, different genes exist at different frequencies in different populations, and the sky is blue.
3. Genetic & physical differences are the result of adaptation to different environments. They are real.
4. All humans have culture - we all have language, we all have history. Anything else is a meaningless, non-scientific flawed comparison using one culture's standards as a measure of another's without regard to very relevant variables.
5. Why is a law journal addressing biology?
Click to expand...

I take it you didn't read the study or the entire thread.

1. IQ is meaningless until you approach the limits of your ability. You/ your meaning the average of your particular race. Yes there are exceptions but we are talking averages.
Will 15 points difference either way have any real effect on society if we were to approach our limits? Some would say it already has?

2. Race is real.

3. Yes and these differences lead to races/ subraces over long periods.

4. Care to elaborate?
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Anubis
average IQ is 100????

holy sh!t that explains a lot
Click to expand...
Regardless of how smart or dumb we all are, by definition the median of IQ is 100, such that half people are less than that, and half are above. The average may in fact be higher, with a lot of smarty people bringing it up, while a lot of the dumber people are only slightly lower.
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Actually it's a mean of 100. The IQ distribution is gaussian with mean 100 and standard deviation of ~15.
 
There are clearly inherent differences between "races" or general groups of people. Anyone who doesn't admit it is lying to themselves.

The PC apologists are no different than the feminazi's who want women and men to be 100% equal.
 
Race is real. Read the BBC link in this thread (or the other thread) about the new drug that works only on blacks. How do you explain the fact that if two white people have a baby, it'll turn out to be white?

Race is real, race is genetic, and intelligence is genetic. After all, genes are what ensures two intelligent asian humans don't give birth to a dim-witted silverback gorilla.
 
One thing I didn't like about the report on that new drug is that on NPR they said, the drug only work well on "African American"...wth, how about other blacks in other country.
 
Originally posted by: silverpig
Race is real. Read the BBC link in this thread (or the other thread) about the new drug that works only on blacks. How do you explain the fact that if two white people have a baby, it'll turn out to be white?

Race is real, race is genetic, and intelligence is genetic. After all, genes are what ensures two intelligent asian humans don't give birth to a dim-witted silverback gorilla.
Click to expand...

Wow. Your post simply reeks of ignorance.

Hate to break it to you, but there are literally DOZENS of classifications of race out there, each as valid as the next. Pick up any Anthropology textbook and you'll find it screaming that race is not a biological classification. The fact remains that beyond small locally pronounced or differences over geographical terrain there is very little difference between human species. Further complicating the problem of "genetic race" is the notion that populations have always mixed when they come into contact, therefore, you have "White" genes mixed in with "Black" and "Yellow" genes...you get the idea. One becomes just as indistinguishable from the other. Can you really establish a "Black" genome? What are you going to do? Sample every single person under the sky whose skin is dark or has some sort of physical feature? At what shade of dark brown are you going to draw the line? See the difficulties that the Nazis had? What EXACTLY 'was' it to be a Jew? Was 1/12th "Jewishness" enough?

Race has always been and will continue to be an important social classification, but it is by no means "natural." It always has and always will be shaped by social forces. If race were actually genetically fixed, we'd still consider Irish Catholics, Jews, and Protestants a race of their own (look at the census from the 1950s and 60s).

As far as completely putting things up to genetics, I think that's rather ignorant of you. Obviously, surroundings are going to play a good deal of influence - although how much is certainly up to considerable debate.
 
Originally posted by: Pepsei
One thing I didn't like about the report on that new drug is that on NPR they said, the drug only work well on "African American"...wth, how about other blacks in other country.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the problem with translating something which has historically been culturally defined into something based in biology: they simply don't work together.
 
Originally posted by: AStar617
Someone asked earlier why it seemed that if training was a larger factor in Kenyans' success as runners, why nobody else could simply train harder. The answer here is simple, they could, but they simply don't.
Click to expand...

That is complete BS. You're telling me that long distance runners who run as their career don't train hard? You've got to be kidding me.

And I read an interview with a Kenyan runner who said that unlike what other people think, Kenyans do not always run around all day, they do have cars, and they don't have to run 50 miles to go to the store.

MANY people would like to win the marathons, but people from one small geographic area win a hugely disproportional percentage of events. If you are logically minded the statistics will speak for themselves, but if you're the emotional type who just wants to break stereotypes, then the obvious will be lost on you.
 
Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

1. IQ is meaningless until you approach the limits of your ability. You/ your meaning the average of your particular race. Yes there are exceptions but we are talking averages.
Will 15 points difference either way have any real effect on society if we were to approach our limits? Some would say it already has?
Click to expand...

I think IQ makes a huge difference, far more than people give it credit for. Sure, anyone can duplicate what someone else discovered. It doesn't take much intelligence to imitate. But to go where nobody has been before and chart undiscovered terroritory of science, that does take a lot of intelligence.

This is why a very few elite make most of the world's scientific contributions. You won't find Joe Sixpack coming up with the theory of relativity, or inventing the transistor.

Even most college graduates lack the inate ability to do much more than simply duplicate the efforts of others. I see a lot of kids on here thinking they're smart because they got a degree, but they're missing the point- intelligence is inate, and going to school won't raise your intelligence. At the end of the day, a person's success has more to do with their ability than their credentials.

Here's an example: take 2 people, one with above average intelligence and one with below average intelligence. They both go about their everyday tasks just fine, since that's mostly repetitive and learned. Now introduce them into a situation that they've never experienced before. Put them in a maze, or give them a puzzle to figure out. The one with higher intelligence will have a higher success rate. Sure, the one with lower intelligence will be able to understand the answer once you tell them, but they're not as likely to be able to *figure out* the answer on their own.
 
Originally posted by: Kipper
See the difficulties that the Nazis had? What EXACTLY 'was' it to be a Jew? Was 1/12th "Jewishness" enough?.
Click to expand...

We have YET ANOTHER clueless, emotional kid who feels strongly about a topic, but the best they could come up with is a Nazi connection.

This is extremely typical of an emotional person who cannot express themselves in a clear mannger. In fact, this is encountered so often that it even has a name.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Doboji
Bah... you're just plain wrong. The physical differences between races are so incredibly slight as to be insignificant. Only when you get to the absolute peak of performance do you begin to see any discernable difference (professional athletes). And even then you see plenty of white people who can sprint just as fast, or jump just as high as black people and so on and so forth.

The same applies to intelligence.... IF there is a difference here, it would only be apparant at the absolute extreme levels of intelligence. As 99.9999999% of people never come anywhere close to educating themselves up to their intelligence potential, education is really the only relevant factor when comparing intelligence.

Furthermore, highly intelligent people are really the exception to the rule... those who are outstanding are talents... and thus can come from any race at any time... further making the comparison irrelevant.

In conclusion attempting to point out racial genetic differences is absolutely assanine, futile and irrelevant.

-Max
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In conclusion, what exactly are you basing this on, other than knee-jerk liberal notions? I didn't say that races have a huge difference in genetics, but I'm sure there is a statistically significant one. Furthermore, what of my mention of propensity to disease and illness? Some races are far more likely to get sick from certain things, even after allowing for environmental influences.
Click to expand...


skoorb don't argue with an idiot- his brain isn't as big as yours and I bet tests would prove it....
 
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Doboji
Bah... you're just plain wrong. The physical differences between races are so incredibly slight as to be insignificant. Only when you get to the absolute peak of performance do you begin to see any discernable difference (professional athletes). And even then you see plenty of white people who can sprint just as fast, or jump just as high as black people and so on and so forth.

The same applies to intelligence.... IF there is a difference here, it would only be apparant at the absolute extreme levels of intelligence. As 99.9999999% of people never come anywhere close to educating themselves up to their intelligence potential, education is really the only relevant factor when comparing intelligence.

Furthermore, highly intelligent people are really the exception to the rule... those who are outstanding are talents... and thus can come from any race at any time... further making the comparison irrelevant.

In conclusion attempting to point out racial genetic differences is absolutely assanine, futile and irrelevant.

-Max
Click to expand...
In conclusion, what exactly are you basing this on, other than knee-jerk liberal notions? I didn't say that races have a huge difference in genetics, but I'm sure there is a statistically significant one. Furthermore, what of my mention of propensity to disease and illness? Some races are far more likely to get sick from certain things, even after allowing for environmental influences.
Click to expand...


skoorb don't argue with an idiot- his brain isn't as big as yours and I bet tests would prove it....
Click to expand...

Where the hell did your n00b ass come from, and where the hell did this stupid ass thread come back from....

Race is an arbitrary categorization of human beings... it is incredibly unscientific and generally useless... people are genetically different of course... these differences follow to some extent regional trends. However if your stupid enough to try to group people in such huuuge generalizations such as "Black" "White" "Asian"... then you're stupid enough to believe just about anything.

-Max
 
Originally posted by: QueHuong
I remember a poll a while ago where 50% of this forum voted that there is a genetic difference between whites and blacks regarding intelligence. Now that this article includes Asians, where have all those people gone? 😕
Click to expand...

Genetic differences are okay as long as it doesn't relate to intelligence...
 
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Doboji
Bah... you're just plain wrong. The physical differences between races are so incredibly slight as to be insignificant. Only when you get to the absolute peak of performance do you begin to see any discernable difference (professional athletes). And even then you see plenty of white people who can sprint just as fast, or jump just as high as black people and so on and so forth.

The same applies to intelligence.... IF there is a difference here, it would only be apparant at the absolute extreme levels of intelligence. As 99.9999999% of people never come anywhere close to educating themselves up to their intelligence potential, education is really the only relevant factor when comparing intelligence.

Furthermore, highly intelligent people are really the exception to the rule... those who are outstanding are talents... and thus can come from any race at any time... further making the comparison irrelevant.

In conclusion attempting to point out racial genetic differences is absolutely assanine, futile and irrelevant.

-Max
Click to expand...
In conclusion, what exactly are you basing this on, other than knee-jerk liberal notions? I didn't say that races have a huge difference in genetics, but I'm sure there is a statistically significant one. Furthermore, what of my mention of propensity to disease and illness? Some races are far more likely to get sick from certain things, even after allowing for environmental influences.
Click to expand...


skoorb don't argue with an idiot- his brain isn't as big as yours and I bet tests would prove it....
Click to expand...
Well sad ATOT name-calling aside - the whole blacks having more heart failure issue could be due to lifestyles that are historically related to their position in society. They may have to do more menial and stressful jobs thus resulting in a higher rate of heart problems.

As for the pathetic unknowledgable attempts to rationalize by Skoorb here... They are completely unfounded.

Scientifically there is no such thing as race. There are no biologically significant human group differences, hence no human races.

http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/22/apr04/race.htm


 
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