Black man taken to jail for sitting in public area

[HumblePie]

I agree with you except for one small thing. The police do have a right to detain him as you stated. However, if he fails to comply, he can then be detained using force. If he resists the detention, he can then be arrested.

- Merg

I stipulated that in the post. The police can detain someone if they feel information from that person is critical to a criminal investigation. A person that tries to resist being detained can then be arrested for Obstruction which is also a criminal offense. Which is one of the charges he was arrested for according to the report. You simply do not walk away from police that are asking you questions regarding a criminal investigation. You can ask if you are still needed to be detained for any reason and if not if you are free to go. If the police cannot articulate a reason for keeping you detained, the next words out of your mouth should be along the lines of, "since you detaining me here for no further legal reason, allow me a moment to use my phone to call my attorney for you to speak further with on this matter."

That last bit will get the ball rolling really fast every single time. Least it has for me on several occasions.

 

[stlc8tr]

Agreed, at most the police should done is speak with Mr Lollie as he was already complying with the guard's request to leave the private lounge. The police made the situation worse by not trying to have a calm conversation with all parties.

Lollie wasn't in a private lounge. He was sitting in the public skyway area.

 

[nehalem256]

Agreed, at most the police should done is speak with Mr Lollie as he was already complying with the guard's request to leave the private lounge. The police made the situation worse by not trying to have a calm conversation with all parties.

No actually it appears the police did try to have a calm conversation with Lollie.

The problem is that Lollie did not want to have a calm conversation with the police, but instead attempt to walk away from them and make allegations of racism.

 

[pauldun170]

No actually it appears the police did try to have a calm conversation with Lollie.

The problem is that Lollie did not want to have a calm conversation with the police, but instead attempt to walk away from them and make allegations of racism.

Lollie spoke calmly and courteously to the female officer.

"So what's you business with me right now?" Lollie asks the officer. "I want to find out who you are and what the problem was back there—" the officer replies.
"There is no problem, that's the thing" Lollie interrupts calmly, slowly walking away.
"Well, talk to me, let me know who you are, and then you can be on your way," the officer says.
"Why do I have to let you know who I am?" Lollie asks politely. "Who I am isn't the problem—"
"Because that's what police do when they get called, is they identify people . . ."
Lollie explains again that he has just gotten off work at 9 a.m. and was sitting on the bench while waiting for his children to get out of a nearby school at 10 a.m. when a store clerk who called police to complain Lollie was loitering confronted him.
"I don't have to let you know who I am—I know my rights, first off—secondly, secondly, I don't have to let you know who I am if I haven't broken any laws. I told you like I told him, I'm going to New Horizons to pick up my kids at ten o'clock. I was sitting on that bench for ten minutes—"
"Thank you for explaining—"
"He walked up to me a minute after and got irate with me. First off, that is a public area, and if there's no sign that says 'this is a private area, you can't sit here' no one can tell me I can't sit there—" Lollie tells the officer.
"The problem was—" she begins but Lollie interrupts saying, "There is no . . .The problem is I'm black. That's the problem. No, it really is. Because I didn't do anything wrong. I'm not sitting there with a group of people. I'm sitting there by myself, not causing a problem with anyone."
The a second officer approaches, an older white male.
Lollie greets him, saying: "What's going on brother? I got to go get my kids."
Immediately the second officer tries to grab Lollie without warning.
"Please don't touch me," Lollie says. "Please don't touch me."
"Well you're gonna go to jail then," the officer says.
The white male officer continues to try to forcefully grab for Lollies phone, continues speaking over him, telling him he's "not there to argue" while Lollie continues to plead that he's done nothing wrong.
"This is assault," Lollie says.
"Put your hands behind your back!"
"I didn't do anything wrong!"
"I gotta go get my kids!
"Put your hands behind your back or this is going to get ugly!"
"What do you need from me?"
"I told you . . ." the female officer intervenes, explaining again that they want Lollies identification despite Lollie informing her that it is within his rights to refuse.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Lollie wasn't in a private lounge. He was sitting in the public skyway area.

Like a dog with a bone he just won't let that go no matter what information he's shown.

 

[HumblePie]

Lollie spoke calmly and courteously to the female officer.

Not exactly courteous with this bit here.

"The problem was—" she begins but Lollie interrupts saying, "There is no . . .The problem is I'm black. That's the problem. No, it really is. Because I didn't do anything wrong. I'm not sitting there with a group of people. I'm sitting there by myself, not causing a problem with anyone."

He is insinuating the police officer is investigating him because he's black and not because she were called out for a report of a criminal activity. Not exactly completely courteous. He is also continuing to walk away from the officers. You can see that as the camera is moving along the skyway. Do not walk away from cops that have legally detained you for questioning into a criminal activity. That is obstruction in many places and a criminal offense that can get you arrested.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Not exactly courteous with this bit here.



He is insinuating the police officer is investigating him because he's black and not because she were called out for a report of a criminal activity. Not exactly completely courteous. He is also continuing to walk away from the officers. You can see that as the camera is moving along the skyway. Do not walk away from cops that have legally detained you for questioning into a criminal activity. That is obstruction in many places and a criminal offense that can get you arrested.

At that point in time he was *not* detained. It wasn't until the male officer(s) showed up that it was escalated to that point and beyond (tasing and arrest).

 

[HumblePie]

At that point in time he was *not* detained. It wasn't until the male officer(s) showed up that it was escalated to that point and beyond (tasing and arrest).

If a police officer is questioning you, then you are detained. Do not walk away from an officer while being questioned as he was.

 

[Victorian Gray]

If a police officer is questioning you, then you are detained. Do not walk away from an officer while being questioned as he was.

I have yet to see any information to indicate that the female officer in question said or did anything to indicate that the fellow was being detained. There was nothing to indicate that being the case on the film and audio of the event until the male officers arrived.

 

[Riparian]

Not exactly courteous with this bit here.



He is insinuating the police officer is investigating him because he's black and not because she were called out for a report of a criminal activity. Not exactly completely courteous. He is also continuing to walk away from the officers. You can see that as the camera is moving along the skyway. Do not walk away from cops that have legally detained you for questioning into a criminal activity. That is obstruction in many places and a criminal offense that can get you arrested.

I read that as him insinuating that the security guard claimed he was trespassing because he was black, not that the police were investigating because he was black.

 

[tracerbullet]

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/274598461.html

"A video from the First National Bank shows the seating area and the security desk where the incident took place. Lollie is seen sitting in a chair that appears to be farthest from the desk.

A bit later, another person sits down. After a few minutes, a security guard appears to say something to Lollie and the other person before leaving. Another person arrives and sits down in the area a short time later, and the guard returns and appears to again say something.

A woman then gets up and leaves. The guard appears to talk longer with Lollie. Lollie and another person continue to sit.

At some point, Lollie gets up and walks north toward the skyway"

I wonder if that changes things?

 

[cirrrocco]

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/274598461.html

"A video from the First National Bank shows the seating area and the security desk where the incident took place. Lollie is seen sitting in a chair that appears to be farthest from the desk.

A bit later, another person sits down. After a few minutes, a security guard appears to say something to Lollie and the other person before leaving. Another person arrives and sits down in the area a short time later, and the guard returns and appears to again say something.

A woman then gets up and leaves. The guard appears to talk longer with Lollie. Lollie and another person continue to sit.

At some point, Lollie gets up and walks north toward the skyway"

I wonder if that changes things?

Thanks for posting the video. This is exactly like what he mentioned happened in his interview.

 

[her209]

I wonder if that changes things?

Pretty much settles the questions imho. Coupled with the video Lollie shot where he was explaining to the female officer what was going on before the male cop showed up and started getting all grabby and eventually leading to the tasering.

 

[OverVolt]

I didn't read how exactly this went down before anyone grills me okay. Good ole internet.

--However-- the police can legally detain anyone for any reason for 24 hours AFAIK. So the news headline is pretty inflammatory. He could have been minding his own business, maybe not, and in reality, if all they did was detain him, it doesn't matter. All he has to say is "are you charging me with a crime? am I free to go" just like everyone else has the right to say.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I didn't read how exactly this went down before anyone grills me okay. Good ole internet.

--However-- the police can legally detain anyone for any reason for 24 hours AFAIK. So the news headline is pretty inflammatory. He could have been minding his own business, maybe not, and in reality, if all they did was detain him, it doesn't matter. All he has to say is "are you charging me with a crime? am I free to go" just like everyone else has the right to say.

--However-- what's the point of making a comment on a story that you admit to not following or understanding? What meaning does that leave your statement? You might as well have said, "I like ice cream" and it would carry as much weight.

 

[OverVolt]

--However-- what's the point of making a comment on a story that you admit to not following or understanding? What meaning does that leave your statement? You might as well have said, "I like ice cream" and it would carry as much weight.

Its not like he's the first man ever wrongly detained if thats the case. The internet is stupid and so is everyone for getting so caught up in it.

I don't have to read the story, I already know what to expect. I guess the ability of cops to detain someone is like breaking freaking news if you never leave the house.

 

[dmcowen674]

Is anyone from the area?

Have they done anything with this Bank Lounge like put up signs saying seating for Bank customers only?

 

[maxi007]

Lol , he must had been paid high , to do some stunts ...

 

[stlc8tr]

That's what the cops are claiming. Lollie claims that he was in the Skyway.

http://www.twincities.com/News/ci_2...t-probe-will-be-transparent-police-chief-vows

I guess you believe the cops while others believe Lollie. We'll have to see if the probe provides any information so one side can do the victory dance. 😛

Now that the video of Lollie sitting only in the skyway area has been released, I don't see any of the "he must have been in the employee-only lounge area" folks chiming in. 😛

 

[OutHouse]

cops talking to citizens is a lost art . now, its do what i say or ill go rambo and fuck you up

 

[MixMasterTang]

I didn't read how exactly this went down before anyone grills me okay. Good ole internet.

--However-- the police can legally detain anyone for any reason for 24 hours AFAIK. So the news headline is pretty inflammatory. He could have been minding his own business, maybe not, and in reality, if all they did was detain him, it doesn't matter. All he has to say is "are you charging me with a crime? am I free to go" just like everyone else has the right to say.

You watch too much TV and come across as a "know it all". You could have watched the video or read any of the articles to at least try not being a complete troll.

 

[The Merg]

Yes, the video from the bank shows that Lollie was sitting in an area that was being used by other people. Since there was no posting there that is was private property, the area was free to be used by the public, in the same way that a sidewalk is in front of someone's house. For whatever reason, the building security told him to leave and at first he did not comply, so security called the police.

When the police arrived, Lollie had already left the chairs and the police had been told that he had been trespassing. The police can detain him if there is reasonable suspicion that he had been committing a crime. Unfortunately, the information the police relied upon was not good information, although it was reasonable for them to believe it (security for a building calls and says someone was trespassing is generally considered to be reliable information).

Since the police have a reason to detain him and he failed to comply, force is allowed to be used to make him comply. Watching the second video of the actual encounter, it is very difficult to see if Lollie is attempting to walk away or not although he steps towards the officers at one point (it doesn't appear to be aggressive, but rather as if he is going to walk past them). Once the officers start to go hands on with him, he doesn't appear to comply though which appears the cause of him being put on the ground.

With regard to being Tased, the officer didn't actually fire the Taser. He used it in the Drive Stun mode, which is a direct contact action. It provides a shock to the area only where the Taser is touching the subject's body. Think of it as getting a "purple nurple".

I'm glad to see the city prosecutor dropped the charge due to the non-trespassing. It's obvious that the security employees at the bank building need some additional training with regards to what is public and what is private and what is private property that is publicly accessible.

- Merg

 

[norseamd]

I'm glad to see the city prosecutor dropped the charge due to the non-trespassing. It's obvious that the security employees at the bank building need some additional training with regards to what is public and what is private and what is private property that is publicly accessible.

No not at all.

Surprised you even think this would be acceptable for him to keep his job. That guard needs to be fired and blacklisted from ever holding any security job ever again in any capacity.

 

[Moonbeam]

No not at all.

Surprised you even think this would be acceptable for him to keep his job. That guard needs to be fired and blacklisted from ever holding any security job ever again in any capacity.

We know, do we, that somebody in the bank didn't order the security guard to move him on?

 

[The Merg]

No not at all.

Surprised you even think this would be acceptable for him to keep his job. That guard needs to be fired and blacklisted from ever holding any security job ever again in any capacity.

I think that depends on why the security guard took the action he did. If he had been taught that the area was for building employees only, then he acted as he was trained. In that case the person doing the training neds to get a refresher course in what is allowed by the public.

Of course, if it comes out that the security guard acted in a manner that was discriminatory, then he needs to be fired without question.

- Merg