Question black friday cpu build

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

My youngest son (age 10) has decided that he wants to build a computer for his 4-H project this year. He has previously helped me upgrade a power supply, install system memory, and upgrade to a larger hard drive. We presently have 2 Core I5 3470 based desktops upgraded with Rx 550 4gb video cards, which we use mostly for games. We also have a third AMD based system with an a8-7670k. The AMD system is the one we will be taking the guts out of and replacing everything in the case to build a new system.

What I would LIKE is at least the processing power of an R5 3600, and at least the video processing of an RX 550 video card. We mostly play older titles, so we really don't need more than that. (I'm playing Warcraft 3 right now, for example)

The trouble is, when I look at processors from AMD with built in graphics, they don't seem to have any higher end processors with graphics built in. Nothing. The most expensive "g" processor they have right now has only about half the cpu horsepower that I want. I truly like the ability to upgrade the cpu/gpu at the same time, but I'm wondering why they don't offer more capable processors with a decent gpu built in. I would like to spend about $200 to $250 for both. I already have the motherboard, memory, case and hard drive. I guess I'm just waiting on a decent Black Friday sale at this point.

Any thoughts on why AMD is only offering much lower end processors with any graphics onboard? Are there any upcoming cpu's in the works that would have a 20,000 cpumark score and some built in graphics? If not, I may end up having to buy separate processor and graphics card, but I was hoping not to go that route.

Thanks!

 

[chrisjames61]

My youngest son (age 10) has decided that he wants to build a computer for his 4-H project this year. He has previously helped me upgrade a power supply, install system memory, and upgrade to a larger hard drive. We presently have 2 Core I5 3470 based desktops upgraded with Rx 550 4gb video cards, which we use mostly for games. We also have a third AMD based system with an a8-7670k. The AMD system is the one we will be taking the guts out of and replacing everything in the case to build a new system.

What I would LIKE is at least the processing power of an R5 3600, and at least the video processing of an RX 550 video card. We mostly play older titles, so we really don't need more than that. (I'm playing Warcraft 3 right now, for example)

The trouble is, when I look at processors from AMD with built in graphics, they don't seem to have any higher end processors with graphics built in. Nothing. The most expensive "g" processor they have right now has only about half the cpu horsepower that I want. I truly like the ability to upgrade the cpu/gpu at the same time, but I'm wondering why they don't offer more capable processors with a decent gpu built in. I would like to spend about $200 to $250 for both. I already have the motherboard, memory, case and hard drive. I guess I'm just waiting on a decent Black Friday sale at this point.

Any thoughts on why AMD is only offering much lower end processors with any graphics onboard? Are there any upcoming cpu's in the works that would have a 20,000 cpumark score and some built in graphics? If not, I may end up having to buy separate processor and graphics card, but I was hoping not to go that route.

Thanks!

If you need the grunt of an R5 3600 then you have to go the discrete card route.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If you need the grunt of an R5 3600 then you have to go the discrete card route.

Yep, there's no APU equivalent approaching the performance of the Ryzen R5 3600 6C/12T CPU. There's no 7nm APUs yet.

Either scale back the CPU requirements, and get a 3400G APU, for $145 on sale, or scale up the GPU budget, and get a Ryzen R5 3600 and an RX 5500 / RX 5500 XT when they are released. (Some time before the end of the year, and hopefully soon, I want to try one.)

There exists Ryzen R5 (R3?) 3500 and 3500X CPUs, that are cheaper. Someone posted a link to an site in .in (India), that sells them, for $154.95 USD equivalent in Indian Rupees. Don't know if they ship to USA.

There have been some rumors that the 3500/3500X are only for cheaper "emerging markets" and might not make it to the USA market, at least not in any kind of normal retail qty. Which would be a shame, AMD needs something to counter the $130-150 Intel i5-9400F 6C/6T 3.9Ghz all-core Turbo CPU without graphics. That's actually pretty power-house for gaming, as it turns out, as much as the Ryzen R5 3600 is hyped here on these forums.

Could consider getting the i5-9400F ($135 on sale), a B360/365 mobo ($70-90), 16GB kit of DDR4-3000/3200 ($60), and a GTX 1660 ($220). (GTX 1650 Super and GTX 1660 Super are coming soon.)

Edit: Not that I am advising specifically against AMD here, I myself am running mostly all Ryzen 6C/12T rigs, they are really excellent performers, for the money. Just suggesting some parts that might come in at a lower price-point.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What I would LIKE is at least the processing power of an R5 3600, and at least the video processing of an RX 550 video card.

I would like to spend about $200 to $250 for both.

By the way, at least the way the current market is priced, if AMD had that sort of APU chip, they wouldn't price it that low, probably $100-150 higher than that.

Edit: Also, that sort of high-TDP, high-capability APU, would be perfect to form the heart of cheap Asian x86/x64/Windows 10-compatible gaming consoles.

LTT did a video on one of them from China, Longshin or something, I don't remember the name precisely.

Edit: To clarify: AMD's semi-custom unit did product a "console APU" for China, it uses 8GB of GDDR5, not regular DDR4, and is not compatible or produced for the consumer AM4 socket.

 

[Ranulf]

They don't offer built in gpu's on the higher end cpu's to save money and because most people who want a 3600 or better will be using discrete gpu's. Budget wise, you might look at a used rx 570 or nvidia equivalent gtx 970/1060 to save money.

 

[moinmoin]

Any thoughts on why AMD is only offering much lower end processors with any graphics onboard? Are there any upcoming cpu's in the works that would have a 20,000 cpumark score and some built in graphics? If not, I may end up having to buy separate processor and graphics card, but I was hoping not to go that route.

AMD currently is doing very few distinct die designs from which their products are assembled. Essentially they create a server chip first which is also used in the desktop market, this one has no iGPU. Later they create a laptop chip that later launches on desktop as well (commonly called APUs). This one has an iGPU, but since it has to work within the constrains of laptops the size of the CPU is limited.

A cpumark of 20,000 is in between Ryzen 5 3600 and 3600X, both which are 6 core/12 threads Zen 2 based CPUs. There are indications that the upcoming APUs using Zen 2 will have more than the 4 cores/8 threads max the current ones offer, so there is a good chance those can reach that point. We can estimate those to launch on desktop about a year after this year's APUs, so around mid 2020. But will you wait that long?

 

[amrnuke]

My youngest son (age 10) has decided that he wants to build a computer for his 4-H project this year. He has previously helped me upgrade a power supply, install system memory, and upgrade to a larger hard drive. We presently have 2 Core I5 3470 based desktops upgraded with Rx 550 4gb video cards, which we use mostly for games. We also have a third AMD based system with an a8-7670k. The AMD system is the one we will be taking the guts out of and replacing everything in the case to build a new system.

What I would LIKE is at least the processing power of an R5 3600, and at least the video processing of an RX 550 video card. We mostly play older titles, so we really don't need more than that. (I'm playing Warcraft 3 right now, for example)

The trouble is, when I look at processors from AMD with built in graphics, they don't seem to have any higher end processors with graphics built in. Nothing. The most expensive "g" processor they have right now has only about half the cpu horsepower that I want. I truly like the ability to upgrade the cpu/gpu at the same time, but I'm wondering why they don't offer more capable processors with a decent gpu built in. I would like to spend about $200 to $250 for both. I already have the motherboard, memory, case and hard drive. I guess I'm just waiting on a decent Black Friday sale at this point.

Any thoughts on why AMD is only offering much lower end processors with any graphics onboard? Are there any upcoming cpu's in the works that would have a 20,000 cpumark score and some built in graphics? If not, I may end up having to buy separate processor and graphics card, but I was hoping not to go that route.

Thanks!

Neither AMD nor Intel have any processors with iGPU that has RX550-level performance built in. It's just not a realistic thing right now with what the targets are. A half-Polaris or half-Navi die for an APU/iGPU for AMD, for instance, the GPU portion of the processor would be the size of the I/O die. If you look at, for instance, a 3600 die shot, yeah, there's room, but it probably changes the manufacturing process for the chips substantially.

Also... there are not just upcoming CPUs with 20K CPUMark and some built-in graphics, but there are some out right now --- the 9900K, $450+ CPU. It does have an iGPU but the iGPU is not very good. 20,000 CPUMark is rarefied territory. Getting that much performance requires energy expenditure and heat, and the addition of an actual dedicated-GPU level of iGPU would make it very difficult.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

Also... there are not just upcoming CPUs with 20K CPUMark and some built-in graphics, but there are some out right now --- the 9900K, $450+ CPU. It does have an iGPU but the iGPU is not very good. 20,000 CPUMark is rarefied territory. Getting that much performance requires energy expenditure and heat, and the addition of an actual dedicated-GPU level of iGPU would make it very difficult.
[/QUOTE]

Hmm. I may end up going with something like the 2400g for an inexpensive, up front build that I could upgrade next year. However, if prices for the R5 3600 come down
from the current $175 to $160 or less for Black Friday in less than a month, then I'll be tempted to buy that and pair it with a $30-$40 used graphics card. I paid $45 for the
4gb Rx 550 video card on Ebay for our two intel based systems, and we have been very happy with them. Low profile & low power draw. I did have to get an adapter cable for $4
to add hdmi out, but still a good deal for under 50 bucks.

 

[VirtualLarry]

However, if prices for the R5 3600 come down
from the current $175 to $160 or less for Black Friday in less than a month

The cheapest that I've seen a brand-new retail R5 3600 CPU was ~$195 @ Newegg. Is there somewhere selling them for $175? That would be an awesome price.

I really don't know where you are coming up with these overall low-ball prices, they're significantly less than what I've been seeing (for new product), and I pride myself on being a bit of a bargain-hunter. (Though, sometimes I miss a few.)

 

[moinmoin]

Hmm. I may end up going with something like the 2400g for an inexpensive, up front build that I could upgrade next year.

In that case I'd suggest getting the 2200G instead. 2400G is not worth the difference since with 2200G you can make up most of the difference by overclocking both the CPU and the iGPU (whereas OC on 2400G is limited by the memory bandwidth bottleneck).

 

[VirtualLarry]

For the money, IF you are going to USE the iGPU, get the 3400G, the iGPU clocks and performance are a bit improved. But yeah, when you can get the 2200G for $79, go for that one, or maybe even the R3 1200 CPU for $59, if you're just going to use the CPU portion, and plan on overclocking. The 1200 is an easy OC to 3.8, maybe higher. I think that the 2200G turbos that high by default.

 

[amrnuke]

Hmm. I may end up going with something like the 2400g for an inexpensive, up front build that I could upgrade next year. However, if prices for the R5 3600 come down
from the current $175 to $160 or less for Black Friday in less than a month, then I'll be tempted to buy that and pair it with a $30-$40 used graphics card. I paid $45 for the
4gb Rx 550 video card on Ebay for our two intel based systems, and we have been very happy with them. Low profile & low power draw. I did have to get an adapter cable for $4
to add hdmi out, but still a good deal for under 50 bucks.

You can get a GT 1030 for $75, and if that 3600 is at $175 you've come in right at your budget.

 

[Ajay]

For the money, IF you are going to USE the iGPU, get the 3400G, the iGPU clocks and performance are a bit improved. But yeah, when you can get the 2200G for $79, go for that one, or maybe even the R3 1200 CPU for $59, if you're just going to use the CPU portion, and plan on overclocking. The 1200 is an easy OC to 3.8, maybe higher. I think that the 2200G turbos that high by default.

Yeah, I put a 2400G in my Mom's computer and, while it's fine for her, it's kinda meh. I'd have gone with the 3400G if it was available (PSU fried the mainboard, so I had to do a new build right away).

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

The cheapest that I've seen a brand-new retail R5 3600 CPU was ~$195 @ Newegg. Is there somewhere selling them for $175? That would be an awesome price.

I really don't know where you are coming up with these overall low-ball prices, they're significantly less than what I've been seeing (for new product), and I pride myself on being a bit of a bargain-hunter. (Though, sometimes I miss a few.)

Newegg is currently selling it for $175.75 plus tax on Ebay right now, with coupon code. I'm hoping the price comes down a little bit for Black Friday.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Newegg is currently selling it for $175.75 plus tax on Ebay right now, with coupon code.

WOW, really??? I haven't checked Newegg's ebay CPU listings in a week or more. That's a GREAT deal. I wonder if it will still be valid on the 1st, when I get my check. Would upgrade my other several boxes here at that price!

Edit: Thanks!

 

[VirtualLarry]

So, any further thoughts on this, OP? Newegg finally released their GTX 1660 Super cards that they've been stocking up for the big release. There a thread in the Video Card forum about them, HardwareUnboxed did a good video with some benchmark comparisons, and AT front-page apparently has a review. Looks like a winner. About $230 (MSRP) for the cheapest cards, I have my eye on the MSI Ventus model, for cost reasons, and they have a nice metal back-plate and run cool and stable, at least, my two GTX 1660 ti Ventus models do.

 

[Shmee]

The 1660 Super is nice I bet, or even could save some money and get one of the good 8 GB RX580s for under $200.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't know how I feel about buying a Polaris card, at least new, nowadays.

It would feel like buying Pascal, like a GTX 1050 ti or GTX 1060.

Power-consumption concerns, and GDDR6 performance increases, motivated me to get GTX 1660 ti cards, and an RX 5700. (Mostly for mining reasons.)

If the GTX 1650 Super, which is supposed to be a 1280 cuda-core GPU, made from TU116 (same GPU die as GTX 1660 family), paired up with GDDR6, and rumored to be selling around $180 MSRP, performs like an RX 590, I would think that would be a newer, better choice than (overclocked, overvolted) Polaris.

OTOH, if you can get a decent Polaris GPU cheap used (like $60-100), then do so, if you have a stout PSU (550W or above), and don't mind the (relative to newer cards) added power consumption.

 

[Shmee]

I kinda doubted the 1650 super would beat a 580 or 590, but if you are right about the ballpark performance, than that makes sense assuming a similar price. If the RX 580 is significantly cheaper though, or the user needs the additional memory on a budget, then the RX 500 series still makes sense.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

Still looking and watching for any BF deals on the Ryzen R5 3600. Since the previous price of $175 (Newegg through Ebay) was on for about two full weeks, I'm hoping the BF deals will beat that. Has anyone else seen any? It is only 6 days until BF, so I was expecting to see some deals on the R5 3600 posted by now.....

& all I'm seeing is a Ryzen 7 1700x for $130, and a Ryzen 7 2700x for $250 through Micro Center's ad for BF. Kind of underwhelming, since the 2700x was just available for $130 for a couple of days.

Is it unreasonable to hope for better deals on Black Friday itself?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Is it unreasonable to hope for better deals on Black Friday itself?

If it's anything like Newegg's Labor Day sale, then probably. They actually mark UP a lot of the items for the "normies". A true bargain-hunter is ever-vigilant, and there are IMHO just as many really good deals leading up to BF (in Nov.), as on BF itself.

 

[dlerious]

Still looking and watching for any BF deals on the Ryzen R5 3600. Since the previous price of $175 (Newegg through Ebay) was on for about two full weeks, I'm hoping the BF deals will beat that. Has anyone else seen any? It is only 6 days until BF, so I was expecting to see some deals on the R5 3600 posted by now.....

& all I'm seeing is a Ryzen 7 1700x for $130, and a Ryzen 7 2700x for $250 through Micro Center's ad for BF. Kind of underwhelming, since the 2700x was just available for $130 for a couple of days.

Is it unreasonable to hope for better deals on Black Friday itself?

Things are starting to change with sales now days. I'm seeing more pre-BF deals popping up. I'm waiting for money or I would've grabbed that 2700X to upgrade a 1600X at that price. If you see something at a big discount, it might be better to grab now than wait. You could also buy now and return if you find a lower price as long as they don't hit you with a high restock fee (and return policy allows it).

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

Dang - I finally saw a <$170 price for the cpu, but I had already purchased the $80 Ryzen 5 1600. I guess I'll be able to upgrade next year.