News Black Cops, White Victim

[13Gigatons]

That's not his takeaway. He spent 6 months on the internet trying to find a black cop killing a white person. That's why it's titled as such. It makes him feel good to downplay the problems blacks face being abused by the criminal justice system.

Actually I thought it would turn into "black cops are getting railroaded by the system" thread....at least you guys are consistent in your hatred of police. Good Job!

 

[brycejones]

Actually I thought it would turn into "black cops are getting railroaded by the system" thread....at least you guys are consistent in your hatred of police. Good Job!

So why do you think these officers are being railroaded? Or were you just trying to troll?

 

[dank69]

So why do you think these officers are being railroaded? Or were you just trying to troll?

Conservatives have it in their heads that liberals are every bit as hypocritical as conservatives despite tons of evidence to the contrary. It's all projection, all the way down. Hence his shock that this thread didn't go as he expected. He won't change his view though. He'll maintain the belief that we're all hypocrites and just lying so we don't look like hypocrites.

 

[FirNaTine]

Officers here pull in 150K -250K, get awesome benefits and get to ignore most laws. We have super low crime rates.
I'd totally become a LEO.

$155, 693 after eleven and half (11.5) years of service. * (Note: Overtime is abundant so even noobs are pulling in big bucks)
Fifteen (15) paid vacation days first year of service, increasing to twenty-seven (27) days after five (5) years of service.
Thirteen (13) paid sick days. Unused sick days are cumulative. •
Up to three (3) paid personal days first year of service, increasing to five (5) days after three (3) years of service. •

Pension plan. Members are eligible for retirement after twenty (20) years of service at 50% of five (5) year final average salary. Vested retirement plan after ten (10) years.

So if you pull in 200K a year in you final 5 years due to the overtime gods.....

Yeah

It helps when you work in an area without a gun culture and with strict gun laws.
Imagine that.
Not too many people have guns. Not a lot of super religious people and an area that gets a lot immigrants.
Even the pockets of crime are pretty lightweight.

Not all pension plans include OT in final average compensation. I know mine doesn't, but I wish it did . I'm a 20+ year fire department supervisor in a large East Coast department, but we are in the same retirement plan as out police.

 

[FirNaTine]

That's your takeaway from this? That it's so hard to be a cop when you can't simply shoot and kill someone for turning on their vehicle?

Think humanity is your issue, not employment choices.

Reading the article it looks like the freaked out when he hit the horn and one opened fire, and the other joined shortly after. Very frequently one officer shooting will trigger additional ones to fire also, even if they don't perceive the same threat. Simply hearing the gunfire from another officer can make others shoot and it can grow exponentially if there's a lot of officers present.

However, being scared and freaked out by a situation that started over a "possibly switched tag" should not end in a person's death. Police never want to concede defeat, but barring some evidence of a more serious crime/threat if the person doesn't want to get out of the vehicle, move the fuck along. If you're *really* concerned about the guy, wait him out until he gets hungry, has to piss, whatever and he leaves the vehicle. A lot of fatal police encounter start over low level bullshit and escalate unnecessarily.

 

[13Gigatons]

Reading the article it looks like the freaked out when he hit the horn and one opened fire, and the other joined shortly after. Very frequently one officer shooting will trigger additional ones to fire also, even if they don't perceive the same threat. Simply hearing the gunfire from another officer can make others shoot and it can grow exponentially if there's a lot of officers present.

So why do you think these officers are being railroaded? Or were you just trying to troll?

They kinda are...they made a split second decision, the outcome wasn't good. Keep your gun in your holster or maybe even remove the bullets and just pretend to be helping.

 

[brycejones]

They kinda are...they made a split second decision, the outcome wasn't good. Keep your gun in your holster or maybe even remove the bullets and just pretend to be helping.

If it’s as described how would their actions have been in line with their department’s use of force policies? Are you really that ok with extra judicial killings by the police that you you think this was a “good shoot”?

 

[pmv]

A quick google search tells me the median police salary is nearly $70k. That's considerably above the US median salary and doesn't factor in overtime and the generous benefits most police officers get.

As I understand it, the pay for cops in the US varies hugely depending on location. At it happens, last time I saw it mentioned, Louisiana had the worst-paid cops in the country. (As I recall that came up when an off-duty cop took part in an armed robbery, in the course of which they shot and killed a fellow cop who was moonighting as a security guard at the store the first cop was robbing). Does seem that to a degree you 'get what you pay for'.

 

[Pohemi]

So what's the score now then, OP?

189075423895728924234 to 1?

He fixed it before I could...

FTFY. There was also the Somoli black cop. I guess we're all good now

Somali?! Fucking immigrants!

I forgot, he comes from a shithole country

That's why he was actually held to account for it, even though it was accidental. Just like these two black cops in the OP's link. No paid admin leave, no immediate response and representation from the Fraternal Order of Police. Just fire em and keep em in county til charges get filed.

 

[m8d]

That more people have not clued in to the argument of "If we are subject to the law we can't enforce the law" being a little bit of a problem with the general attitude in American policing is really amazing.

AmeriKKa police force is mediocre and racist that's a dangerous combination.

 

[Amol S.]

So what's the score now then, OP?

189075423895728924234 to 1?

1-890-754-2389 Ext#5728924234

That is one big extension number.

Jokes.

 

[Jaskalas]

Was the suspect being detained, and resisted arrest?

The shooting seems a touch excessive, but only barely as they are trained to forcibly seize control of a situation, that vehicles are deadly weapons... An armed cop wanting to assert themselves VS something potentially dangerous is a recipe for disaster. I would want to make sure they are not being railroaded and determine if they did breach standard training / protocols.

I figure they may have crossed what is expected of them, only by the slimmest of margins. With regards to whether the suspect was being detained by force, if he posed a threat. I believe VERY often officers will step in front of a vehicle as justification for shooting at that vehicle, and I think that behavior has been legally allowed throughout the country, to place themselves in harms way before using force to "defend" themselves.

TL;DR, need a lot of details on how exactly the situation unfolded. They are not automatically guilty.

 

[FirNaTine]

AmeriKKa police force is mediocre and racist that's a dangerous combination.View attachment 57951

Most of the police academies I'm familiar with are 6-7 months. So, say 1,000 -1200 hours. I had two friends go through recently. We have a Arson and Explosives unit, and they go through the police academy for our county PD after sufficient FD experience to become certified LEOs assigned to that unit. I talked to both about their experiences as they were going through and I don't see how you could reasonably cut half of what they did. I think that's a lot more realistic floor than a 3 month 500 hour program. But, that should be only the first step to start working in the field and there should be significant additional formal training to progress to FTO or senior officer status, let alone any form of supervisory role. So at small incidents you'd have a few folks with 1,000 or so hours and maybe one or two at 1,500. Significant events lead by a sergeant (or higher) with 2,000 hours training + significant progressive experience.

My only other experience with police is with the London Met folks for a few weeks and saw them in action at a number of public events. They seemed very good at being calm and polite until it was time not to be. They didn't escalate things, but tried to do the opposite. But, if you swung on them, they handled their business professionally though not excessively. I'm not sure that has anything to do with longer training, but more likely a different philosophy.

 

[brycejones]

My only other experience with police is with the London Met folks for a few weeks and saw them in action at a number of public events. They seemed very good at being calm and polite until it was time not to be. They didn't escalate things, but tried to do the opposite. But, if you swung on them, they handled their business professionally though not excessively. I'm not sure that has anything to do with longer training, but more likely a different philosophy.

In the immortal words of James Dalton: Ask him to walk, be nice, if he won't walk, walk him, but be nice, If you can't walk him, one of the others will help you and you will both be nice...I want you to remember, that it's the job, it's nothing personal.

 

[Meghan54]

Most of the police academies I'm familiar with are 6-7 months. So, say 1,000 -1200 hours. I had two friends go through recently. We have a Arson and Explosives unit, and they go through the police academy for our county PD after sufficient FD experience to become certified LEOs assigned to that unit. I talked to both about their experiences as they were going through and I don't see how you could reasonably cut half of what they did. I think that's a lot more realistic floor than a 3 month 500 hour program. But, that should be only the first step to start working in the field and there should be significant additional formal training to progress to FTO or senior officer status, let alone any form of supervisory role. So at small incidents you'd have a few folks with 1,000 or so hours and maybe one or two at 1,500. Significant events lead by a sergeant (or higher) with 2,000 hours training + significant progressive experience.

My only other experience with police is with the London Met folks for a few weeks and saw them in action at a number of public events. They seemed very good at being calm and polite until it was time not to be. They didn't escalate things, but tried to do the opposite. But, if you swung on them, they handled their business professionally though not excessively. I'm not sure that has anything to do with longer training, but more likely a different philosophy.

Haven’t perused the South, eh?

11 weeks for GA, 13 weeks for TN, 18 weeks OH, 14 weeks AL, etc., etc.

And a lot depends upon what agency provides the academy training, but you already know that. And I’m sure you also know the national avg of police academy training is just over 800 hours, which means a whole lotta states/jurisdictions have lower standards.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Don't worry @13Gigatons white people still have an advantage in the CJS

Hooray!!! White people win again! We're #1!!!

 

[Pipeline 1010]

That's your takeaway from this? That it's so hard to be a cop when you can't simply shoot and kill someone for turning on their vehicle?

Think humanity is your issue, not employment choices.

This is a dark, dark slippery slope. Sure, it's just making sure that cops can't commit murder...for NOW. But what then? Next you're gonna see cops get punished if they steal, kidnap, assault people, protect drug shipments, or falsely plant evidence. After that happens, who knows? Maybe they will even get tickets (that they have to actually pay) for traffic violations. This is NOT a world I want to live in!!! I like my cops murdery, stealy, kidnappy, and running stopsigns without consequence. Since the thought of cops having consequences bothers me personally so much, I can empathize with other likeminded assholes who feel the same way.

 

[Lezunto]

Years ago, I once did exhaustive research on White police officers accidentally killing Black cops.

Beginning with the first such shooting in 1940, when white officers in Harlem mistook a black officer, John A. Holt Jr., for a burglar and shot him dead in his own apartment building

After a White officer shot and killed an undercover detective William Capers in 1972, the department drew up guidelines intended to prevent fraternal fire and undercover officers began wearing their badges on strings around their necks. I remember this case because the White cop, who was distraught over what happened, was later promoted to Sargeant.

March 1973 – Black off-duty cop Irving E. Wright was gunned down and killed by White cops who mistook him for a robber

In 1992, Derwin Pannell, a Black transit officer, was shot in the neck by White cops at an L train stop in Canarsie, Brooklyn. Fortunately, he survived.

In 1994, a White cop shot Black undercover transit officer Desmond Robinson who was chasing a teenager with his gun out. Peter Del-Debbio, who is White, came from the other direction and opened fire. Del Debbio, thinking he was so righteous, fired the last few shots into Robinson’s back at close range.

Now, I knew Desmond. At one time, we lived in the same zip code. He was quite a happy- go-lucky guy. He wasn’t anymore following his recovery from nearly being killed by that trigger happy fool. Del Debbio was convicted of assault and got five years probation.

In 2000, Providence, R.I., off-duty Black police sergeant, Cornel Young Jr, was accidentally killed by two uniformed White cops while he was trying to break up a fight in a parking lot. Young, at the time the son of the department’s highest-ranking Black officer, was dressed in baggy jeans, an overcoat and a baseball cap. And he was carrying his service gun.

In 2006, a gang picked a fight with off-duty cop Eric Hernandez at a White Castle in the Bronx, N.Y., at a White Castle restaurant in the Bronx. Officer Alfredo Toro responded to a 911 call and shot Hernandez, not realizing he was a colleague. Hernandez later died.

In 2008, a Black off-duty Mount Vernon, N.Y., police officer Officer Christopher Ridley was killed by a Westchester County policeman while holding an assault suspect at gunpoint.

In 2009, 25-year-old Black New York City police officer Omar J. Edwards was shot and killed by a white officer on a Harlem street while in street clothes. He had his service weapon out and was chasing a man who had broken into his car, police said.

I stopped researching at this point in 2009. But I do recall some quite ugly incidents later on.

What I did not include (because there were many incidents of same) is the number of instances where White cops seriously assaulted, (but did not kill), Black undercover police officers.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Years ago, I once did exhaustive research on White police officers accidentally killing Black cops.

Beginning with the first such shooting in 1940, when white officers in Harlem mistook a black officer, John A. Holt Jr., for a burglar and shot him dead in his own apartment building

After a White officer shot and killed an undercover detective William Capers in 1972, the department drew up guidelines intended to prevent fraternal fire and undercover officers began wearing their badges on strings around their necks. I remember this case because the White cop, who was distraught over what happened, was later promoted to Sargeant.

March 1973 – Black off-duty cop Irving E. Wright was gunned down and killed by White cops who mistook him for a robber

In 1992, Derwin Pannell, a Black transit officer, was shot in the neck by White cops at an L train stop in Canarsie, Brooklyn. Fortunately, he survived.

In 1994, a White cop shot Black undercover transit officer Desmond Robinson who was chasing a teenager with his gun out. Peter Del-Debbio, who is White, came from the other direction and opened fire. Del Debbio, thinking he was so righteous, fired the last few shots into Robinson’s back at close range.

Now, I knew Desmond. At one time, we lived in the same zip code. He was quite a happy- go-lucky guy. He wasn’t anymore following his recovery from nearly being killed by that trigger happy fool. Del Debbio was convicted of assault and got five years probation.

In 2000, Providence, R.I., off-duty Black police sergeant, Cornel Young Jr, was accidentally killed by two uniformed White cops while he was trying to break up a fight in a parking lot. Young, at the time the son of the department’s highest-ranking Black officer, was dressed in baggy jeans, an overcoat and a baseball cap. And he was carrying his service gun.

In 2006, a gang picked a fight with off-duty cop Eric Hernandez at a White Castle in the Bronx, N.Y., at a White Castle restaurant in the Bronx. Officer Alfredo Toro responded to a 911 call and shot Hernandez, not realizing he was a colleague. Hernandez later died.

In 2008, a Black off-duty Mount Vernon, N.Y., police officer Officer Christopher Ridley was killed by a Westchester County policeman while holding an assault suspect at gunpoint.

In 2009, 25-year-old Black New York City police officer Omar J. Edwards was shot and killed by a white officer on a Harlem street while in street clothes. He had his service weapon out and was chasing a man who had broken into his car, police said.

I stopped researching at this point in 2009. But I do recall some quite ugly incidents later on.

What I did not include (because there were many incidents of same) is the number of instances where White cops seriously assaulted, (but did not kill), Black undercover police officers.

This is fascinating. I can tell you've already done a lot of work...do you have data on how many of these cops were punished? My bet is about none of them at all.

 

[FirNaTine]

Haven’t perused the South, eh?

11 weeks for GA, 13 weeks for TN, 18 weeks OH, 14 weeks AL, etc., etc.

And a lot depends upon what agency provides the academy training, but you already know that. And I’m sure you also know the national avg of police academy training is just over 800 hours, which means a whole lotta states/jurisdictions have lower standards.

Yeah, I knew there was lot out there dragging the average down, but 11 weeks is scary.

I went through a paramedic program that well exceeded the minimums for National Registry acceptance. But, I ran across some medics that were out of minimum hours programs. They knew what they needed to pass the National Registry exam, but were lacking in depth of understanding and critical thinking that goes along with it. Knowing not just what to do, but why gives you insight into when the standard answer may be the wrong one in a particular case. There were times I consciously did something different than the norm, but each time was either approved ahead of time by a consulting physician (radio), or afterwards by our medical director and I was able to clearly articulate that I knew the standard treatment either wouldn't work, or potentially could make the patient worse in a particular case based upon my depth of knowledge of the why.

Correlating that to police training would make me expect similar cuts in knowledge depth, and an even higher reliance on just simply see x do y. Black and white rules/responses don't always fit a grey world.

So, an encounter like what happened in OP ends in death because: A We have reasonable suspicion of a crime, B we can use force, C so we must use force if we don't get immediate compliance. No consideration seemingly given that the use of force was way out line with the suspected crime. If they had tased and drug the guy out of the car, they would likely have been within policy as alluded to by the police chief, but still excessive based on the totality of circumstances.