Black admissions drop at UC Berkeley

[MidasKnight]

CNN Link

I didn't know. I wonder how the other Califonia Universities compare. Shocking.

 

[Colt45]

am i missing something?

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Who cares what color someone's skin is?

"This is supposed to be a public university, and it's not really representing the public,"

this guy forgot the UNIVERSITY part of that. A university is not a place for the kind of social promotions that have destroyed our public schools.

UC lawyers advised that targeting minority schools could violate Proposition 209, the 1996 voter-approved law banning the use of race in California college admissions, Berkeley spokesman George Strait said.

But then Berkley is full of communist ignoramuses.

Applications from black students were down about 10 percent ...As of fall 2003, whites accounted for about 30 percent of undergraduates, with Asian Americans, who also did not benefit under the old affirmative action programs, comprising about 40 percent.

It's like people who deserve to go are geting in...

possible explanations include higher tuitions

this is one of those lies/distortions you've come to know and love from CNN

imposible amount of money being poor i can assure you that poor black students aren?t going to go to Berkley, 10% more or less isn't a significant amount* when the cost is ridiculously more than you can get; 10% more or less isn?t a significant amount when you can afford that kind of cash.

*enough to keep you from attending

 

[MidasKnight]

This read made me think about Bill Cosby's remark about a " 50% " drop out rate among Black students.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

UC lawyers advised that targeting minority schools could violate Proposition 209, the 1996 voter-approved law banning the use of race in California college admissions, Berkeley spokesman George Strait said.

But then Berkley is full of communist ignoramuses.

Yeah...all of those students are communists as well as ignorant.

:roll:

 

[chess9]

Well, let's think about this problem from a different perspective for a few minutes.

Let's assume that the authors of The Bell Curve were right when they said that Harvard could admit all Asians and raise the average SAT and GPA of its student body if those were the sole criteria.

Now, assume that all the universities implement an admissions policy based upon the above premise, i.e. that SAT and GPA scores will be the sole criteria for admission. Assume further that the number of Asians admitted to U.S. universities were to rise exponentially as a consequence and admissions of caucasions fell concomitantly.

You may think the foregoing is absurd but it isn't. In fact, this is the direction we are headed in higher education.

So, how would you feel if your white child wasn't admitted to the University of North Dakota, Hoople Extension, Night Division, because she had been beaten out by the great-great grand children of the Chinese who built the railroads, or some immigrant Koreans?

If Texas politicians would give all the National Guard slots available in one year to sons of politicians, what strings wll they be willing to pull to get their children into our soon to be all Asian universities? What strings would you pull? What laws would you want passed to protect your child's "right" to a college education?

-Robert

 

[heartsurgeon]

according to the article

40% of berkley is "Asian"
30% of Berkley is "White"

211 blacks admitted, only 98 chose to attend.

again, according to the article, fewer blacks were accepted (191) a few years ago.

we are not given data about how many blacks came to Berkeley when the acceptance number was 191.

obviously, more blacks accepted to Berkeley...may be chosing to go somewhere else, quite possibly a higher ranked college or university.

there are some rather odd statements in the article....refering to the UC Regent who promoted the race-neutral admissions policy as "part-black". What is "part-black"?

and the quote by the black student "no matter how difficult it is, I'll be able to get through." That is a little strange as well.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

UC lawyers advised that targeting minority schools could violate Proposition 209, the 1996 voter-approved law banning the use of race in California college admissions, Berkeley spokesman George Strait said.

But then Berkley is full of communist ignoramuses.

Yeah...all of those students are communists as well as ignorant.

:roll:

I was speaking of the administration, professors, and surrounding community? for most of which the simple intelligent words of sealab 2021 escape them:

history has shown that communism brings about an oligarchy that's more repressive than the newly-rich they so despise

but then i guess power comes from the end of a gun, eh?

Now, assume that all the universities implement an admissions policy based upon the above premise, i.e. that SAT and GPA scores will be the sole criteria for admission.

That is just stupid, many extra curricular things make a difference: such as personal interviews application essays, and quality of school attended and WDYDBHS*what did you do besides high school*

What is "part-black"?

someone who has African American heritage but doesn't support the liberal 'your need our help' mentality.

Assume further that the number of Asians admitted to U.S. universities were to rise exponentially as a consequence and admissions of Caucasians fell concomitantly.

It will only limit access to the top universities, po-dunk U will always have room for another kid. The best, most mature, minds getting the best education is optimal solution.. even if the best are black, brown, green, or have purple hair.

So, how would you feel if your white child wasn't admitted to the University of North Dakota, Hoople Extension, Night Division, because she had been beaten out by the great-great grand children of the Chinese who built the railroads, or some immigrant Koreans?

that?s awful racist, I?m surprised that a liberal would point out how incredibly racist selecting people based on the color of their skin.

If Texas politicians would give all the National Guard slots available in one year to sons of politicians, what strings wll they be willing to pull to get their children into our soon to be all Asian universities? What strings would you pull? What laws would you want passed to protect your child's "right" to a college education?

it?s a principle: deserve it the most, win the prize. Trying to appeal to a racist pro-white agenda is just as ignorant and racist as appeal to any other ethnically divergent agenda. We?re one America and when I?ve got a man doing open-heart surgery on me I don?t want him to have gotten into med-school because of the color of his skin, but rather because of the strength of his character.

and the quote by the black student "no matter how difficult it is, I'll be able to get through." That is a little strange as well.

it's to push the view "even though they are don?t deserve it they have the will to succeed: merit based admissions are racist and wrong"

I?m sorry, being as how it's probably been a number of years sense you where a liberal heart, if ever, your welcome to get a "liberal to English" translation from me any time you like.

but then success for black people would only bring them into the middle class, which would destroy the major democratic base: so keeping them ignorant and suckling at the government's teat is the only solution for the democratic party, isn't it? Because we all know that most black democrats are against the social policies of the post-Regan democratic party.

 

[cquark]

I don't think race should be a criteria of admission. I was willing to accept affirmative action as the temporary measure it was originally intended to be, but it's gone on for too long. Frankly, I see politicians using it more as an excuse to avoid dealing with real issues in education. The long term solution can't be admitting unqualified minorities. It has to be in equalizing school funding by replacing the local property tax system by state-wide funding, replacing our frill-centric education system with a solid core curriculum covering fewer topics in greater depth, and in ensuring that poor children are healthy.

 

[chess9]

cquark:

I'm a proponent of affirmative action. I'll go to my grave believing in it.

However, one of my friends thinks we should go back to admitting only the most qualified into our universities. He sees three principal benefits:

1. It will serve as a wake up call to most Americans that they are rapidly losing ground to Asians.
2. It may restore American hegemony in the sciences.
3. It WILL raise the level of effort (currently very low) expended by too many high school students and thus improve the overall intellectual status of the U.S.

I'm willing to bet that no small number of Republicans and conservative Dems would be looking for a way to trim the Asian "advantage" within a few years of the implementation of such a program.
Once very smart white kids have trouble getting into good universities the nature of this debate will be forever changed.

-Robert

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Once very smart white kids have trouble getting into good universities the nature of this debate will be forever changed.

The nature is for or against racist standards; the nature will stay the same even if the constituency calling for the racism changes.

 

[Idex]

Hmm

 

[onelove]

I have never been able to square discrimination based on color as a remedy for that same evil. Let justice be blind.

if we could just see our way clear to making education a priority, this would be a universal good.

[/generalization]
flame on -

 

[Zebo]

Why is it the only people complaining about AA are those who could'nt marticulate into Berkeley anyhow? When they start dening whites for admisson then I'll call racist, but by the looks of things, since Asians are 40% and have no AA benfits, whites are whiners who can't make the grade when given all the tools. So what if they reserve 3-5% of the slots for a heavily discrimmated against group such as blacks? You all have ~97% of the of the slots your free to compete for and if you can't make it you have no one else to blame but self IMO.

The "economic" bonus points given in the admission matrix seems a bit fairer though since I'd say Magic Johnsons children live a more charmed life and attended better primary schools than most whites did.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Why is it the only people complaining about AA are those who could'nt marticulate into Berkeley anyhow?

I think any discriminatory policy like AA is a bad idea in the long term, and I was accepted by universities as selective as UCB (though I didn't apply to any CA schools.) AA was meant to provide a bridge until equal pre-university opportunities existed, and that reasoning I support. The only justification for continuing AA is that we've failed to equalize educational opportunities for minorities, and if that's the case (and I believe it is), we've got to address the root cause (see my above post for suggestions as to how.)

However, one of my friends thinks we should go back to admitting only the most qualified into our universities. He sees three principal benefits:

1. It will serve as a wake up call to most Americans that they are rapidly losing ground to Asians.
2. It may restore American hegemony in the sciences.
3. It WILL raise the level of effort (currently very low) expended by too many high school students and thus improve the overall intellectual status of the U.S.

I think your friend has some good points, though they're secondary IMO to the primary issue that we need to fix how our K-12 education system is funded and operated. #3 would help push us in that direction though.

I'm willing to bet that no small number of Republicans and conservative Dems would be looking for a way to trim the Asian "advantage" within a few years of the implementation of such a program.

Unfortunately, I suspect you're right.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Why is it the only people complaining about AA are those who could'nt marticulate into Berkeley anyhow? When they start dening whites for admisson then I'll call racist, but by the looks of things, since Asians are 40% and have no AA benfits, whites are whiners who can't make the grade when given all the tools. So what if they reserve 3-5% of the slots for a heavily discrimmated against group such as blacks? You all have ~97% of the of the slots your free to compete for and if you can't make it you have no one else to blame but self IMO.

The "economic" bonus points given in the admission matrix seems a bit fairer though since I'd say Magic Johnsons children live a more charmed life and attended better primary schools than most whites did.

It should be based on economic status, if anything, not the color of your skin.

Being POOR not being BLACK is the problem now.

 

[Moonbeam]

Black admissions drop at UC Berkeley

Probably all students are having less sex what with all the diseases.

 

[Piano Man]

I bet this has to do with tuition costs. Maybe that Michigan quota ruling helped a little too. Scholarships are down as well.

 

[glenn1]

Berkeley needs to stop worrying about how many blacks it admits and start worrying about how many blacks it graduates. Blacks have the lowest graduation rate of all groups at Berkeley. Maybe their lowered admission rates are a reflection of students realizing this is a college which places a high value on getting more black students in the door for cosmetic reasons, but doesn't seem to much care about their educational experience once they're enrolled.

 

[chess9]

glenn1:

Notice that Asians have the highest graduation rates.

These are second and third generation kids whose parents don't treat them like they are the King of England. The parents push these kids and sacrifice to give them the tools to succeed in an ever more technical world.

Sheezh, perhaps the rest of America will get a clue....

Notice white males are not doing such a good job of graduating either and most of them come from families substantially better off than their Black, Asian, and Hispanic counterparts. What's up with that?
I suspect the worst....

-Robert

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: chess9
glenn1:

Notice that Asians have the highest graduation rates.

These are second and third generation kids whose parents don't treat them like they are the King of England. The parents push these kids and sacrifice to give them the tools to succeed in an ever more technical world.

Sheezh, perhaps the rest of America will get a clue....

Notice white males are not doing such a good job of graduating either and most of them come from families substantially better off than their Black, Asian, and Hispanic counterparts. What's up with that?
I suspect the worst....

-Robert

Where do you get this idea that whites are coming from families better off than most Asian families? Check out the US Census data here. Asian median household incomes are higher than for whites.

 

[Dari]

I seriously doubt that any race is smarter than another. What really count are the interest the parents have in their child's education. That can lead to other things such as pressure on the child and resources to compete more effectively ( test prep courses, extracurricular activities, etc...) Let's face it, if your parents don't give a damn or if survival (or other social pressures) is right up their with hitting the books, I doubt that you'd care about the latter.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: chess9
glenn1:

Notice that Asians have the highest graduation rates.

These are second and third generation kids whose parents don't treat them like they are the King of England. The parents push these kids and sacrifice to give them the tools to succeed in an ever more technical world.

Sheezh, perhaps the rest of America will get a clue....

Notice white males are not doing such a good job of graduating either and most of them come from families substantially better off than their Black, Asian, and Hispanic counterparts. What's up with that?
I suspect the worst....

-Robert

Where do you get this idea that whites are coming from families better off than most Asian families? Check out the US Census data here. Asian median household incomes are higher than for whites.

Besides that fact, we only allow the smart asian from asia to come to the USA to get educated. It is no surprise that the smartest 100 kids from asia will be smarter then the smartest 100 americian simple because there is 2 billion of them compared to 300 million of use.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: chess9
glenn1:

Notice that Asians have the highest graduation rates.

These are second and third generation kids whose parents don't treat them like they are the King of England. The parents push these kids and sacrifice to give them the tools to succeed in an ever more technical world.

Sheezh, perhaps the rest of America will get a clue....

Notice white males are not doing such a good job of graduating either and most of them come from families substantially better off than their Black, Asian, and Hispanic counterparts. What's up with that?
I suspect the worst....

-Robert

Where do you get this idea that whites are coming from families better off than most Asian families? Check out the US Census data here. Asian median household incomes are higher than for whites.

Besides that fact, we only allow the smart asian from asia to come to the USA to get educated. It is no surprise that the smartest 100 kids from asia will be smarter then the smartest 100 americian simple because there is 2 billion of them compared to 300 million of use.

asians' income are higher because they are a much smaller group. furthermore, they don't have many of the disadvantages that blacks have. Hispanics shouldn't have many disadvantages but they are down there with blacks. That I don't understand. But, like chess9 and I said, the ethics plays a huge part in their success.

 

[SuperTool]

Is it Berkeley's fault that 113/211 accepted black students think they are too good for it?
If less than half accept the admission, maybe the answer is not the admission rate, but other factors such as academics, financial aid, etc.
I got into Berkeley, and I didn't go there. After financial aid, it was actually cheaper for me to go to an Ivy school, than it would have been to go to Cal, even as CA resident.