[BitsAndChips]390X ready for launch - AMD ironing out drivers - Computex launch

[Cloudfire777]

Yeah, and you notice the premium you pay for when you go Nvidia.

Dell's Broadwell Latitude 3550 has this junk for similar price as the old model

NVIDIA GeForce 830M 2GB Graphics (DDR3)

Dell's Haswell model had this

AMD 8850M 2GB GDDR5

R9 M295X 4GB 125W - $550
GTX 970M 6GB 75W 30% faster -$450

 

[Techhog]

AMD hasn't been competitive in things like notebooks for over 3 years yet the world is still turning. And you obviously care about his opinion seeing how you replied to his post.

It's funny how people with Titan X's are usually the ones to get upset by posts like that...

 

[AtenRa]

Info from Obr:
Hawaii with HBM
390x wont beat TITANX.
390x 40% Faster than 290x
390x 15%Faster than GTX980
Why is Fiji so late?Because NV launched TITANX with 12GB so fast that AMD needs redone Fiji to use with 8GB.
Fiji should be here for months now with original schedule.

Ehm, the could release the 4GB at a nice price 3-5 months ago, earn revenue and profit and then later they would release an 8GB variant when it would be ready.

I dont think 390x release has anything to do with the wait for 8GB.

 

[AtenRa]

R9 M295X 4GB 125W - $550
GTX 970M 6GB 75W 30% faster -$450

GTX970 and 6GB doesnt go together very well

 

[5150Joker]

Yeah, and you notice the premium you pay for when you go Nvidia.

Dell's Broadwell Latitude 3550 has this junk for similar price as the old model

NVIDIA GeForce 830M 2GB Graphics (DDR3)

Dell's Haswell model had this

AMD 8850M 2GB GDDR5

That's on Dell. Other companies like Lenovo have the Y50 for $900 with a 860M that is more than capable for gaming.

It's funny how people with Titan X's are usually the ones to get upset by posts like that...

Why would I be upset about your post?

 

[raghu78]

Financially they dont need to "catch up". And they dont really have the R&D for it anyway.

I suggest you stop spreading such FUD if you do not have the facts to back it up.

Before the massive rebrand, it was also deemed impossible that it wouldnt all be new GPUs.

what rebrand ? Until the products launch everyone is speculating. Nobody is right or wrong till the R9 3xx series is launched.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I suggest you stop spreading such FUD if you do not have the facts to back it up.



what rebrand ? Until the products launch everyone is speculating. Nobody is right or wrong till the R9 3xx series is launched.

What FUD? AMD R&D budget isnt some kind of secret.

And you can already buy some of the 300 series in laptops.

Example:
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/z-series/z51/#80K6002SUS

 

[JDG1980]

Do you really think AMD can afford to make a chip the size of a theoretical 4096 core Tonga would be though? It'd be over 550 easy if it were on 28 nm. AMD doesn't have the fanbois to justify the costs. That's why the dual Tonga idea makes sense since they could sell a single die 'mobile' version to Apple (for the Broadwell iMac) and perhaps other OEMs.

28nm is a very mature process, and over 550 sq. mm is not at all unreasonable for a flagship product. Both GK110 and GM200 are bigger than that. I know the AMD-bashers always have reasons why AMD can't do the same things its competitors do, but I'm not buying this. All the rumors so far indicate a single monolithic die for Fiji (R9 390X). The dual-Tonga rumor seems to have originated on this board based on a misinterpretation of a picture from a rumor site. A dual-Tonga card, if it used standard Crossfire technology like previous dual-GPU cards, would be inferior to the R9 295 X2 in every way. That just isn't going to happen.

 

[JDG1980]

And you can already buy some of the 300 series in laptops.

OEM SKUs mean nothing; AMD would put out rebrands that were labeled 400 or 500 series if the vendors wanted it. What matters to most enthusiasts is the release of officially acknowledged 300 series parts coming up. AMD has never confirmed (or denied) rebranding; all we have so far is largely unfounded rumors, and some wild speculation based on information extracted from beta (by definition incomplete) drivers. I don't buy the rebrand rumors because their existing products aren't competitive now, and giving them a new name won't change that.

 

[jpiniero]

if it used standard Crossfire technology like previous dual-GPU cards, would be inferior to the R9 295 X2 in every way.

It would draw much less than the 295X2 though. I guess you wouldn't be much of a fan of that I am thinking would be the 380(X) - rebranded Hawaii with lower clock speeds and tighter voltages at similar prices of what the 290(X) is going for currently.

 

[ocre]

Anyone who can recall the last few generations, AMD has steadily creeped up on NV in terms of their smaller die versus NV's big die on performance. Hawaii > GK110. That was the first time thier smaller die actually match & beat NV's big die. The trend is up for AMD in fact.

NV is early to the next-gen with Maxwell, but to not expect AMD to be competitive with their own next-gen (when we all know its a huge GPU with a major advantage: HBM) is plain silly and unfounded given historic proof.

I expect a minimum 50% above R290X performance for the same power at typical 1080/1440p. At 4K, that could blow up to be massive, especially min-fps, given the large latency & bandwidth advantage from HBM.

Die size really doesn't mean anything without transistor density. It was made into a metric on forums for whatever reason and then used selectively to try to spin some mystical purpose.
but it is useless.

Nvidia has had larger chips but you seem to ignore or forget that they have had smaller dies that compete with AMD bigger dies just as well. Often when anyone brings up this worthless metric they don't even bring up transistor density or how this has a direct effect on how concentrated the heat is, which directly is related to temperatures. The tighter the transistors are packed in, the harder it is to cool.

Hawaii has really started to shine though. I hate when people try to down play the great achievements AMD has made every time a new game launches with the 290x>780ti. Instead of giving AMD credit, they twist it into nvidia abandoning Kepler. It is a shame because AMD gets no credit for all the hard work they have done. The results should speak for themselves but instead the glory is taken away. Credit should be given where credit is do.

 

[Enigmoid]

GTX970 and 6GB doesnt go together very well

Its a 970m with a 192 bit bus...

OEM SKUs mean nothing; AMD would put out rebrands that were labeled 400 or 500 series if the vendors wanted it. What matters to most enthusiasts is the release of officially acknowledged 300 series parts coming up. AMD has never confirmed (or denied) rebranding; all we have so far is largely unfounded rumors, and some wild speculation based on information extracted from beta (by definition incomplete) drivers. I don't buy the rebrand rumors because their existing products aren't competitive now, and giving them a new name won't change that.

Except it doesn't make sense to rebrand the 300 series if you are going to launch an all new 400 series in < 4 months.

The fact that the 375m is appearing in laptops now without any word from AMD is completely indicative of the fact that that particular model is a rebrand.

Now while AMD did rebrand before (8000 series) that was 1 year after launch and the 200 series didn't launch until significantly later.

 

[ShintaiDK]

A dual-Tonga card, if it used standard Crossfire technology like previous dual-GPU cards, would be inferior to the R9 295 X2 in every way. That just isn't going to happen.

Except the R9 295X2 is a 500W part that breaks specifications. 300W is the top sweet spot. Go beyond that and you end in a terrible small ultra niche where you count the cards in 100s and 1000s rather than 10000s and 100000s.

 

[raghu78]

What FUD? AMD R&D budget isnt some kind of secret.

Everyone knows AMD's R&D. Its you who is claiming its not enough to compete. Thats an opinion and not a fact. Has AMD not competed with Nvidia till the R9 2xx series ? So why all of a sudden AMD will not compete with R9 3xx series. With Intel I agree AMD failed miserably with Bulldozer. But again they are investing in Zen / K12. So until the products are out and its reviewed you cannot say that AMD is not investing enough or that their R&D is not enough.

And you can already buy some of the 300 series in laptops.

Example:
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/z-series/z51/#80K6002SUS

Does one GPU make the entire R9 3xx series or even the majority of them rebrands ? Anyway we will know by June about the R9 3xx stack and till that I suggest you stop the FUD.

 

[raghu78]

Except the R9 295X2 is a 500W part that breaks specifications. 300W is the top sweet spot.

why ? because you say so ? Heck even the Titan-Z which Nvidia was ashamed to seed to reviewers had a 375W TDP.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...N-Z-Review/3DMark-Power-Sound-and-Conclusions

Go beyond that and you end in a terrible small ultra niche where you count the cards in 100s and 1000s rather than 10000s and 100000s.

Do you have any numbers on the sales of GPUs by price or even TDP ? Do you know what is the volume of Titan-Z sales or R9 295X2 sales ? So again stop passing off what you believe as fact

 

[ShintaiDK]

Everyone knows AMD's R&D. Its you who is claiming its not enough to compete. Thats an opinion and not a fact. Has AMD not competed with Nvidia till the R9 2xx series ? So why all of a sudden AMD will not compete with R9 3xx series. With Intel I agree AMD failed miserably with Bulldozer. But again they are investing in Zen / K12. So until the products are out and its reviewed you cannot say that AMD is not investing enough or that their R&D is not enough.



Does one GPU make the entire R9 3xx series or even the majority of them rebrands ? Anyway we will know by June about the R9 3xx stack and till that I suggest you stop the FUD.

It doesnt help you get angry on others due to the state of matters.

Products are in the R&D pipeline for quite some time. And this development isnt new. While there is no garantee for getting better products with higher R&D. You certainly dont get anything you didnt pay for.

 

[maddie]

It doesnt help you get angry on others due to the state of matters.

Products are in the R&D pipeline for quite some time. And this development isnt new. While there is no garantee for getting better products with higher R&D. You certainly dont get anything you didnt pay for.

As one of the posters here who knows EVERYTHING in the GPU and CPU sections of the industry.
What do you estimate as the R&D costs of a modern line of processors and graphics chips. This will help me a lot in knowing if I can develop my own lines. With your help of course.

 

[ShintaiDK]

As one of the posters here who knows EVERYTHING in the GPU and CPU sections of the industry.
What do you estimate as the R&D costs of a modern line of processors and graphics chips. This will help me a lot in knowing if I can develop my own lines. With your help of course.

I can see what you try to do, but it wont work.

You can look at established success companies and tell me if you think you can do it better and cheaper. Something these companies must have missed.

 

[maddie]

I can see what you try to do, but it wont work.

You can look at established success companies and tell me if you think you can do it better and cheaper. Something these companies must have missed.

You are mistaken.

For example AMD already have Jim Keller. I need you.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You are mistaken.

For example AMD already have Jim Keller.

What does Jim Keller have to do with anything?

 

[stahlhart]

Everyone in this thread back it down a notch, or I'm locking it. If you can't debate technical subject matter without resorting to personal attacks then don't bother posting here.
-- stahlhart

 

[RussianSensation]

So, that would make it like 30% slower than the Titan X and 980 Ti? If it costs more than $500 and uses more power than Hawaii, they might as well throw in the towel and stick to well-priced mid-range GPUs. They're never going to catch up.

No, your math is off. Titan X is 43-48% faster than 290x depending on the review and resolution. Also, OBR's math is messed up or he is making stuff up. You can't be 40% faster than 290X but only 15% faster than the 980 at high resolutions.

980 is only 11-13% faster at 1440p, and just 6-8% at 4K. Apply 15% faster to 980's performance at those resolutions and you will not get a figure 40% faster than a 290X:

http://www.sweclockers.com/recension/20216-nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-x-i-sli/16#pagehead

For example, apply 1.4x to R9 290X's score at 1440p at TPU = 70 x 1.4 = 98% or 27.3% faster than a 980 and 2% within a Titan X.
https://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_X/29.html

Clearly, either OBR is making up nonsense or he can't do mathematics. Keep in mind OBR has a major slant against all things AMD and highly favours Intel/NV.

The rumoured specs don't work work out either. A 1.05Ghz 4096 shader chip without memory bandwidth, ROP and geometry bottlenecks would scale better than 40% at higher GPU-bound resolutions. I would expect this to become 50% at 4K.

---

This thread is getting derailed again by financials, market share and R&D data which all have nothing to do with specs of R9 390X. Whatever, it's almost expected the closer we get to a new AMD CPU/GPU launch, the usual haters will show up to troll and spread as much FUD as possible. I honestly think we've reached a point where financial discussions on AMD/NV/Intel should be in a separate sub-forum, not a part of a technical/specification speculation thread of specific products.

 

[Head1985]

His 40% faster than 290x and 15% above GTX980 is from latest computerbase benchmark(1 day old 17 games)
They ADD new games and radeons sucks there.
Btw whole news if you are interest
http://pctuning.tyden.cz/index.php?option=com_pctlongblock#34663

http://www.computerbase.de/2015-05/...h/2/#diagramm-rating-2560-1440-hohe-qualitaet

 

[USER8000]

That was from last month on TPU. So over nearly 20 games tested,if the R9 390X is 40% faster than a R9 290X it would match a Titan X.

 

[Cloudfire777]

GTX970 and 6GB doesnt go together very well

GTX 970M do. 192bit bus