[BitsAndChips]390X ready for launch - AMD ironing out drivers - Computex launch

[3DVagabond]

At this point is there any evidence to support claims that they had to use two GPUs on the 390x flagship to hit 8GB? I have heard some rumors I dictating that. I think the bulk of the rumors say just a special interposer which hopefully won't compromise bandwidth negating the entire reason for having the special new memory.

The only reason I think the dual GPU = 8 GB version is because of the rumors they are spending a this time making the drivers deliver on the promise of unified memory for crossfire (game seeing full 8Gb instead of two copies of 4.)

We heard rumors that Hawaii was dual GPU as well. I don't put anything into it.

 

[metalliax]

According to Ryan Smith it is TSMC 28nm...

First chart

If you look at pics of a Tonga die, it doesn't say the specifics, however the packaging does state Made in Taiwan, which implies TSMC.

I think if it were GloFo, something would be stamped Diffused in Germany / Made in Malaysia.

 

[ocre]

okay

I know there were early rumors of tonga being glofo, i just assumed all this time. It made sense to me that AMD would move GPUs to glofo and i was never all that interested in the chip.

Now we are hearing that fiji will be glofo 28nm, somethings never die

 

[RussianSensation]

I am not sure 15-20% over a 980 will get many 980 users to upgrade, but i am hoping for at least that much performance for about $500. It might attract some 970 owners though but.........

There are plenty of people out there that have 780s, gk104s, tahiti, hawaii, etc. Plenty that havent made a move yet. These people would be more likely to spend 500 on a card than people with lesser cards as they usually stick with cards in their price bracket.

I am not even sure many cards released this round are a viable upgrade for a 980 owner who might could easily wait until 14nm/16nm if he/she is at 1080P/1200P. You made some goings points though: (1) some PC gamers don't pay attention to the latest cards in the market / are less informed on up-to-date cards (2) NV cards retain their resale value. Thus, if there is a card 15-40% faster than the GTX980 for $550-700, it might be possible to sell a GTX980 for $470-480 and have a "cheap" upgrade to GM200 6GB/R9 390 series.

It's a tricky situation. Would you say a GTX560Ti owner or an HD5870/HD6950 owner would view GTX580 as a viable upgrade for 1080P? I am not sure about that. I think those gamers would be more likely to hold out 1-2 full generations. At the same those gamers on 4K or even 3440x1440 want all the performance they can get. I think you hit the nail on the head though as GK204 (670/680/770), Tahiti/R9 290 and 780 owners would be prime candidates for R9 390/390X/GM200 6GB upgrades.

If AMD can release a R9 390 for $500 that's = 280X CF at 1440P/4K and R9 390X for $700 95% as fast as GTX970 SLI, that would be a game changer. By being 9-10 months behind NV though, AMD lost millions of $300-350 GTX970 sales. Those users are now locked in for 2-4 years before their next upgrade. AMD didn't do enough to work with reviewers to emphasize how much value R9 270/270X brought vs. GTX750Ti despite the power usage. They also failed to communicate the insane value after-market R9 290 cards had over the $200-240 GTX960 2-4GB.

 

[destrekor]

It's a tricky situation. Would you say a GTX560Ti owner or an HD5870/HD6950 owner would view GTX580 as a viable upgrade for 1080P? I am not sure about that. I think those gamers would be more likely to hold out 1-2 full generations. At the same those those gamers on 4K or even 3440x1440 want all the performance they can get. I think you hit the nail on the head though as GK204 (670/680/770), Tahiti/R9 290 and 780 owners would be prime candidates for R9 390/390X/GM200 6GB upgrades.

I did. I had two 560 Ti's - I wanted, so wanted, to get the next big thing, but the deals on the 290X just sealed the deal. I worried, and still worry, about the lack of the more common Nvidia-only special features and sometimes performance efficiency. But, the 970 worried me for future performance, and the 290X deals were too sweet to pass up. Not regretting it, not yet at least. Still waiting for GTA V and The Witcher 3, those two games, how they perform on AMD, will probably shape my opinion the most. Otherwise, Cryengine and Frostbyte games tend to be my preferred games anyway, I rarely am drawn toward Ubisoft titles.

I couldn't stand to wait any more, but also because I knew the next cards from AMD would be out of my price range, likewise for whatever Nvidia was cooking up (became the Titan X, which I expected at that overpriced level. 980 Ti or whatever is next is still a few months off, likely to be pushed out early thanks to whatever AMD brings to the table). I'm not averse to selling the 290X Lightnings if the 390X or 390 performs that well above them and is affordable enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[RussianSensation]

At this point is there any evidence to support claims that they had to use two GPUs on the 390x flagship to hit 8GB? I have heard some rumors I dictating that. I think the bulk of the rumors say just a special interposer which hopefully won't compromise bandwidth negating the entire reason for having the special new memory.

This theory is flawed for several reasons.

1) Who is going to buy a card with 2 GPUs that's only as fast or 5% faster than the Titan X when hardly anyone is buying a $650 R9 295X2 that's substantially faster (20%) in benches than the stock Titan X?

2) New HBM dual-link interposing enables larger capacities. 2x1GB dual-link x 4 stacks allows for 8GB HBM with 1 GPU chip. You do not need 2 GPUs for 8GB. We have HBM 1.0, HBM 1.0 dual-link and HBM 2.0. Whoever started the dual-GPU rumour had no clue that a middle-ground existed.

3) The performance doesn't add up. If R9 390X is made up of 2 chips but it's only 50-65% faster than an R9 290X, that makes it slower than an R9 295X2 that sells for $650-700. Total FAIL if they release such a product 1.5 years after R9 295X2.

Right now an R9 295X2 is 76-77% faster than the 290X at 1440P/4K. Releasing a dual-chip R9 390X that's only 50-65% faster means each of the new GPUs inside R9 390X is slower than an R9 290X. That makes no sense whatsoever because it implies the next gen R9 390 chip (2048 SPs since R9 390X is 4096 SPs) is slower than a 2816 SP R9 290 one. Also, the naming methodology of 390X doesn't in any way signify that it's a dual GPU card.

I think the slides are self-explanatory. "Up to 8GB of HBM" means AMD will have 4 and 8GB models. It's clearly a single-GPU card.

 

[StereoPixel]

 

[3DVagabond]

No. lol

 

[StereoPixel]

No. lol

But Fuad said today that Fiji XT has dual GPU
http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37457-fiji-xt-can-support-hbm2-memory

If two GPUs is long they have 8 shader engines (8CU per shader engine)

 

[3DVagabond]

But Fuad said today that Fiji XT has dual GPU
http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37457-fiji-xt-can-support-hbm2-memory

If two GPUs is long they have 8 shader engines (8CU per shader engine)

No he doesn't. He says if they need something more to compete with Pascal they can go dual Fiji XT.

 

[stahlhart]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37298464&postcount=322

Second warning.
-- stahlhart

 

[ocre]

No he doesn't. He says if they need something more to compete with Pascal they can go dual Fiji XT.

No, he actually suggest 8GB fiji is a dual solution, in the link inside that article

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37373-amd-fiji-has-two-gpus

This is how AMD ended up with 8GB of HBM1 memory

So, when Fudzilla wrote that Fiji is going to ship with 8GB of RAM, we didn’t actually think that we were talking about two separate GPUs, on separate interposers, with each GPU using 4GB of HBM1 memory. This is how AMD got to 8GB, or should we say two times 4GB for this card. It makes much more sense now, and of course we would not be surprised to see Fiji for notebooks and lower-end desktop products in a single GPU configuration.

I really dont know how Faud concluded that. AMD suggested the VR demo was done with multiGPU but why does he jump to the conclusion that fiji is two GPUs on a single pcb? It would be easier to assume AMD had 2 Fiji GPUs in crossfire.

Anyway, i dont support this theory at all. Just saying that there clearly is a website suggesting this stuff

 

[flash-gordon]

Fuad wrote 10 articles about HBM/Fiji/Pascoal, each one playing off the others... He just don't know what he's talking.

 

[el etro]

You guys need to get better sources. Fudzilla -and Wccftech - is the worst site on the techwebs.

 

[ocre]

You guys need to get better sources. Fudzilla -and Wccftech - is the worst site on the techwebs.

Yeah, see thats the issue............
The real problem here is that there is nothing new to talk about. Not anything reliable.

I dont for a second believe Fiji is two chips on a single PCB. There is nothing to talk about. Its just a dull time for graphics right now.

Dull time for PCs, i guess......when you think about it
/broadwell

 

[RussianSensation]

I dont for a second believe Fiji is two chips on a single PCB. There is nothing to talk about. Its just a dull time for graphics right now.

Fudzilla basically reports 2 opposing news (R9 390X = dual-GPU, R9 390X = single GPU) because 1 of them is bound to be right. :sneaky:

Now they are saying:

"With four HBM1 chips on an interposer in 4-Hi HBM1 (16 Gb) you can expect up to 8GB per card, while this figure doubles with HBM2 to 32 Gb per memory die, or 16GB total with four chips." ~ Source

 

[HurleyBird]

Looks like an MCM. Such a design might be configured to appear and behave as a single GPU instead of two. Whether the two halves would have low enough latency and high enough bandwidth to effectively work as one without noticeable determinant in gaming loads is another question.

 

[3DVagabond]

Looks like an MCM. Such a design might be configured to appear and behave as a single GPU instead of two. Whether the two halves would have low enough latency and high enough bandwidth to effectively work as one without noticeable determinant in gaming loads is another question.

If you look at the image there is no GPU(s) shown at all. The "Dual GPU?" has been Photoshopped onto the image. The actual slide just shows the controllers and the DRAM. It's FUD.

 

[boozzer]

I did. I had two 560 Ti's - I wanted, so wanted, to get the next big thing, but the deals on the 290X just sealed the deal. I worried, and still worry, about the lack of the more common Nvidia-only special features and sometimes performance efficiency. But, the 970 worried me for future performance, and the 290X deals were too sweet to pass up. Not regretting it, not yet at least. Still waiting for GTA V and The Witcher 3, those two games, how they perform on AMD, will probably shape my opinion the most. Otherwise, Cryengine and Frostbyte games tend to be my preferred games anyway, I rarely am drawn toward Ubisoft titles.

I couldn't stand to wait any more, but also because I knew the next cards from AMD would be out of my price range, likewise for whatever Nvidia was cooking up (became the Titan X, which I expected at that overpriced level. 980 Ti or whatever is next is still a few months off, likely to be pushed out early thanks to whatever AMD brings to the table). I'm not averse to selling the 290X Lightnings if the 390X or 390 performs that well above them and is affordable enough to make it worthwhile.

it makes no sense for you to wait. 560 ti would not be able to power any new games in decent settings let alone playable fps in those settings. 290x to hold you over while you wait for the 16nm gpus. that is actually great timing for you.

 

[R0H1T]

If you look at the image there is no GPU(s) shown at all. The "Dual GPU?" has been Photoshopped onto the image. The actual slide just shows the controllers and the DRAM. It's FUD.

Actually that looks a simple MS paint job

 

[3DVagabond]

Actually that looks a simple MS paint job

Catch all term like Kleenex for tissues. You're right though, it in no way looks "professionally" done. How anyone can think this makes the argument that the 390X uses 2x GPU's is really funny.

 

[dacostafilipe]

Catch all term like Kleenex for tissues. You're right though, it in no way looks "professionally" done. How anyone can think this makes the argument that the 390X uses 2x GPU's is really funny.

That said, the "... is preparing for production" does seem to indicate "real" hardware from AMD.

I don't think that it's a APU, because even the XB1,PS4 are smaller and not rotated 45°. This rotation is normally only done on the GPUs.

And because they already need an interposer for HBM, such an architecture would be easier to implement then having to wire everything. It would not be dual GPU, but dual Die.

I'm not saying that this is true, but it could be.

 

[antihelten]

If anyone is interested, this is the original source of the photograph in question:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35853427&postcount=18

 

[3DVagabond]

That said, the "... is preparing for production" does seem to indicate "real" hardware from AMD.

I don't think that it's a APU, because even the XB1,PS4 are smaller and not rotated 45°. This rotation is normally only done on the GPUs.

And because they already need an interposer for HBM, such an architecture would be easier to implement then having to wire everything. It would not be dual GPU, but dual Die.

I'm not saying that this is true, but it could be.

Show me any GPU's in that pic. There isn't even one, never mind two.

If anyone is interested, this is the original source of the photograph in question:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35853427&postcount=18

Thank you. +1 :thumbsup:

 

[Dribble]

If you look at the image there is no GPU(s) shown at all. The "Dual GPU?" has been Photoshopped onto the image. The actual slide just shows the controllers and the DRAM. It's FUD.

Obviously they added it afterwards, it's not meant to look photoshopped or anything else, it's just an annotation on the original image pointing out there are 2 controllers and 2 HBM ram chips hence some are assuming its a dual gpu chip.