[BitsAndChips]390X ready for launch - AMD ironing out drivers - Computex launch

[boozzer]

Quite serious. But you go ahead and continue thinking 97% buy top of the line products.

How often do you leave your room? It's a serious question because if you had even the slightest inkling of what goes in in the world around you, you would know that 97% of people do not buy top of the line products. It's not a phenomenon exclusive to video cards.

I only see two possible reasons you would ask a silly question like that.

1) You were serious, and thus, I pose my question to you above. How often do you leave your room?

2) You were trying to be clever.... It didn't work.

so, you don't make sense, like to make claims and present them as facts. when cornered, resorts to nothing but entertaining personal attacks in an apparent attempt in derailing the line of questioning directed at you. keep it coming.

to answer Q#2, I am always clever, I don't try

 

[2is]

so, you don't make sense, like to make claims and present them as facts. when cornered, resorts to nothing but entertaining personal attacks in an apparent attempt in derailing the line of questioning directed at you. keep it coming.

to answer Q#2, I am always clever, I don't try

It wasn't a question.

At this point in the discussion. I have little doubt you think I don't make sense.

 

[3DVagabond]

4K prices have dropped, and selection has gone up since then. For a brand new flagship card, the high-end bases should be covered, no?

I consider HBM more of a high end feature than some extra GDDR5. I know not everyone agrees.

 

[boozzer]

It wasn't a question.

At this point in the discussion. I have little doubt you think I don't make sense.

hehe, at least we are both having a good time. I am done for now, don't want to be modded for derailing the thread.

let me leave you with something to chew on. what do you think of the 35% 1080p gamers, will they buy a 390 or 390x? do you think 4gb vram is an issue at 1080p?

just to refresh your memory. 4k n above accounts for a grand total of 0.12% of total gamers on steam

which matter more, 35% potential customers, or the 0.12%? which should amd cater to? keep in mind, the 0.12% includes nvidia fans

 

[3DVagabond]

HardOCP found issues with the 295X2 at 1440p maxed in GTA V, said stuttering made it "hard to call playable". Said they would probably have to lower settings due to VRAM limits. Titan X had a similar average FPS, but a much smoother experience.

Source

I'm not sure if HardOCP is on the "biased against AMD" list though, I know they are off-and-on depending on the review...

And his conclusion that it was VRAM bottleneck for the 295x2 kind of falls flat when the 980 sli didn't suffer that. Then @ 4k, except for one spot the 295x2 shoots way out on top. Looks more like immature crossfire drivers to me. If the 295x2 was suffering from lack of VRAM @ 1440 surely it would have crashed and burned @ 4K. Also looking at the turnaround in performance between the 295x2 and 980 sli between the two resolutions also looks like immature drivers.

And no, I wouldn't consider [H] as biased against AMD. They are without a doubt pro Asus, but not against AMD. They tend to have less partial revues than anyone else, IMO, except for their choice of combatants at times. Like comparing the 290X against the 980 and the 290 against the 970 when the price differences are enormous. The 295x2 is more in line with the price of a single 980 and the 290X with the 970.

 

[3DVagabond]

For the 4GB vs 8GB arguments.

Surely price must enter the equation. What would be the $ difference be to allow a 4GB card to sell, assuming practically equal present performance to an 8GB one?

It's hard to know with HBM RAM. It's really new, so there is likely a premium and then there's the need for a more advanced interposer to connect it up, which is also cutting edge state of the art tech. So, it could be real expensive.

I would be surprised if it was price that was keeping it out of the lineup, assuming it ends up that way. I would lean more towards the current state of the DLI system and it might not be ready.

 

[ocre]

It seems to me, there has to be some way. I am having a hard time believing that AMD just can't figure out how to get over 4gb with first gen HBM.

I sure hope a lot of these recent rumors go out window. Man do I want this to be a great series.

 

[2is]

hehe, at least we are both having a good time. I am done for now, don't want to be modded for derailing the thread.

let me leave you with something to chew on. what do you think of the 35% 1080p gamers, will they buy a 390 or 390x? do you think 4gb vram is an issue at 1080p?

just to refresh your memory. 4k n above accounts for a grand total of 0.12% of total gamers on steam

which matter more, 35% potential customers, or the 0.12%? which should amd cater to? keep in mind, the 0.12% includes nvidia fans

I think there is a very real potential for 4gb to be an issue at 1080p. Consoles are targeting 1080p resolution and can allocate more than 4gb to VRAM.

 

[Kenmitch]

8GB's sounds better to me on paper at least.

What is the expected performance difference between HBM and the current GDDR5?

If the GPU has more than enough grunt to output whatever the memory feeds it does the total GB's really effect performance?

Reasoning for questions is from past GPU's throwing twice as much slower memory didn't increase performance at all. Mostly a marketing ploy.

 

[ShintaiDK]

What is the expected performance difference between HBM and the current GDDR5?

Not much. 4096bit HBM1 will perform the same as 512bit 8Ghz GDDR5. The real step comes at HBM2 where you can get up to twice the performance.

 

[96Firebird]

If the GPU has more than enough grunt to output whatever the memory feeds it does the total GB's really effect performance?

Yes, the total number of GBs effects performance. If the card runs out of VRAM, it has to swap data with the RAM through the PCI-E lanes. That is much slower than accessing from the on-board GDDR5 or HBM.

 

[Kenmitch]

Yes, the total number of GBs effects performance. If the card runs out of VRAM, it has to swap data with the RAM through the PCI-E lanes. That is much slower than accessing from the on-board GDDR5 or HBM.

Isn't memory load dependent on the GPU's ability to output the data in the end?

Wouldn't a GPU with a whole lot of grunt free up the memory quicker than one with grunt. Somewhat relieving the need for more?

I kind of picture GPU memory like a water reservoir. If you use a garden hose to keep it from overflowing vs a fire hose. The fire hose would allow more water volume to flow thru. GPU is the hose in this scenario.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Isn't memory load dependent on the GPU's ability to output the data in the end?

Wouldn't a GPU with a whole lot of grunt free up the memory quicker than one with grunt. Somewhat relieving the need for more?

I kind of picture GPU memory like a water reservoir. If you use a garden hose to keep it from overflowing vs a fire hose. The fire hose would allow more water volume to flow thru. GPU is the hose in this scenario.

Nope. Memory usage isnt performance dependent. It doesnt matter if its a entry level card or the super ultra deluxe extreme card. Same settings, same memory requirement.

 

[Red Hawk]

I think there is a very real potential for 4gb to be an issue at 1080p. Consoles are targeting 1080p resolution and can allocate more than 4gb to VRAM.

The actual performance we've seen from PC ports of current console games indicates that 2 GB is fine for matching console quality and performance, as long as you have enough bandwidth.

 

[flash-gordon]

Let's be honest: if 390X comes with only 4GB then it will be the same kind of stuff as the stock cooler on 290X.

It will be compared in details with Titan X 12GB (and 980ti 6GB maybe), and if stutters in some cases, then it will be market as a failure.

If AMD has any sense of the market, the press and their consumers, then it won't be 4GB.

 

[railven]

I think there is a very real potential for 4gb to be an issue at 1080p. Consoles are targeting 1080p resolution and can allocate more than 4gb to VRAM.

Yeah, but not many of the more demanding games hit the 1080p target. Xbone versions of console games often get a downgrade in resolution.

Both consoles I believe right now only allocate 5.5GBs to game data, so it isn't like a 4GB card would be THAT far behind. 2.5GBs of the RAM pool is allocated for the OS and some of their features, which a normal PC would already have another 4-16GBs of RAM allocated for.

 

[beginner99]

Not much. 4096bit HBM1 will perform the same as 512bit 8Ghz GDDR5.

But at half the power. And GDDR5 + memory controller do use a considerable amount of the total power of a gpu. All in all you can save up to 60w on a 300 w TDP card and use it for more CUs.

 

[2is]

The actual performance we've seen from PC ports of current console games indicates that 2 GB is fine for matching console quality and performance, as long as you have enough bandwidth.

I think you are missing the point entirely. The people buying top of the line cards aren't looking to merely match console quality. When I buy FC4 for PC I don't want it to match my PS4, I want it to be head and shoulders above it. Plenty of console ports use WELL above 2GB of VRAM when maxed out at 1080p. FC4 approaches 3GB with no MSAA.

 

[2is]

Yeah, but not many of the more demanding games hit the 1080p target. Xbone versions of console games often get a downgrade in resolution.

Both consoles I believe right now only allocate 5.5GBs to game data, so it isn't like a 4GB card would be THAT far behind. 2.5GBs of the RAM pool is allocated for the OS and some of their features, which a normal PC would already have another 4-16GBs of RAM allocated for.

Not being THAT far behind is still behind, which is completely unacceptable for a TOP OF THE LINE card coming nearly 2 years AFTER PS4. It's kind of embarrassing actually.

 

[therealnickdanger]

Not much. 4096bit HBM1 will perform the same as 512bit 8Ghz GDDR5. The real step comes at HBM2 where you can get up to twice the performance.

But at half the power. And GDDR5 + memory controller do use a considerable amount of the total power of a gpu. All in all you can save up to 60w on a 300 w TDP card and use it for more CUs.

What about latency (timing)? DDR3 has much lower latency than GDDR5, but DDR3 doesn't have as much bandwidth. Does HBM bridge the gap, offering low latency along with the high bandwidth? Is it more like one than the other?

 

[railven]

Not being THAT far behind is still behind, which is completely unacceptable for a TOP OF THE LINE card coming nearly 2 years AFTER PS4. It's kind of embarrassing actually.

Wait...what?

I recall the GTX 9800 I bought for the GF in 2008 only had 512MBs which is what the Xbox 360 had in unified memory back in 2005. I'd hardly call that "unacceptable for a TOP OF THE LINE CARD coming nearly 2 years AFTER [Xbox 360]".

Heck the HD 4870 I had also only had 512MBs of RAM. That card was awesome!

 

[Despoiler]

Not being THAT far behind is still behind, which is completely unacceptable for a TOP OF THE LINE card coming nearly 2 years AFTER PS4. It's kind of embarrassing actually.

So the 980 was a failure and the 970 even more so when they launched?

EDIT: Also, if anyone on this forum is comparing a PC to a console please just exit stage left. pcmasterrace doesn't tolerate blasphemy. The lowliest PC can hit 1080p @ 60fps, which neither console can consistently do even with lower level APIs in use. Mantle, DX12, and Vulcan are going to obliterate any and all PC comparison to a console.

 

[railven]

So the 980 was a failure and the 970 even more so when they launched?

There we go! Haha.

EDIT: Guess the wiggle room will be "that wasn't 2 years later!"

 

[2is]

So the 980 was a failure and the 970 even more so when they launched?

980/970 is already 8 months old and isn't NVidia's top of the line card. 390x isn't even released yet and will be AMD's best offering for the foreseeable future. 980/970 having 4GB of ram is exactly why I haven't upgraded yet and Titan is too rich for my blood. 980Ti is the card to fill that void in NVidia's line up and is the only option worth considering IMO if 390x isn't offered with more than 4GB.

 

[Ketchup]

Thank goodness we FINALLY have a date for the 390x!

http://wccftech.com/amd-fiji-r9-390x-skipping-computex-debut-e3-separate-event/

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to derail. Carry on!