Biting the feed they hand you.
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Bush Under Fire in Congress for Criticizing Israel
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN and JAMES DAO
ASHINGTON, June 11 ? Supporters of Israel in and out of Congress assailed President Bush today for criticizing Israeli attacks on Palestinian militant groups as the administration worked to protect its Middle East peace initiative from a new cycle of violence.
On a day of new attacks and counterattacks by Israeli and Palestinian militant forces, diplomats said there was concern in the administration that without dramatic improvement of some kind, the peace initiative known as the road map could founder.
A day after he criticized Israel for its attempt to kill a militant Palestinian leader, Mr. Bush today denounced a suicide bomb attack on a bus in Jerusalem that killed 16 people and wounded more than 100.
"I strongly condemn the killings," he said, "and I urge and call upon all of the free world, nations which love peace, to not only condemn the killings, but to use every ounce of their power to prevent them from happening in the future."
At a hearing of the House International Relations Committee, Representative Gary L. Ackerman, said that Mr. Bush's rebuke might lead his critics "to think of the word hypocrisy."
"How can we take certain actions in response to terrorism, and then tell others that when they do the same exact thing that it is not helpful?" Mr. Ackerman, a New York Democrat, said during questioning of William J. Burns, the State Department's senior diplomat for Middle Eastern affairs.
The influential pro-Israel lobbying group, the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, known as Aipac, issued a rare criticism of Mr. Bush, if only obliquely. Israel, it said, "will and must take the responsibility to fight terrorist organizations" and "it should be the policy of the U.S. to support" such actions.
The bombing today was an apparent retaliation for Israel's attempt to kill Dr. Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a top leader of Hamas, on Tuesday. It happened at about the same time as an Israeli missile attack in Gaza.
Despite the violence, senior administration officials said that the peace initiative was still alive.
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and Kofi Annan, the United Nations secretary general met and urged calm.
"There are those who do not wish to see the Palestinian people achieve a state living side by side in peace with Israel," Mr. Powell said. He called on Israel, the Palestinians and the Arab nations in the region to "remain steadfast, to continue moving down the path that was laid out at Aqaba last week by the leaders who were assembled."
Mr. Powell was referring to a summit meeting in Jordan last week attended by Mr. Bush, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel and the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas.
Mr. Annan called on the Israelis and Palestinians to "stay the course."
But there was an unusual quality to the statements given the inflamed situation. If there was a new wrinkle to the day's developments, it was the criticism directed at Mr. Bush for his rebuke of the Israeli government on Tuesday.
Reflecting dismay that a new round of violence might undermine the spirit achieved in Aqaba and Sharm el Sheik, Mr. Bush said the attack on the Hamas leader would not help Israel's security. His statement drew fire from those saying that Israel had carried out the attacks to defend itself, just as the United States has done.
Representative Robert Wexler, a Florida Democrat, said Israel's use of military force to protect itself against "a ticking time bomb factory" was "100 percent justified."
Representative Tom Lantos of California, the ranking Democrat on the International Relations Committee, defended Israel's right to protect itself, saying that the Palestinian Authority under Mr. Abbas was unable to do the job. If the Palestinians will not disarm terrorists, "then Israel clearly will do so," he said.
"We would do so," he continued. "Any self-respecting society will do so. People in government have to defend their citizens."
Appearing before the committee, Mr. Burns, the assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs, acknowledged under sharp questioning from Democrats that Mr. Abbas would probably have to take forceful steps to disarm and dismantle terrorist groups if the peace initiative were to succeed. "I believe he is committed to doing the hard things that are going to be required to make that possible," Mr. Burns said.
But a diplomat in touch with the administration said that the situation was so perilous that Mr. Abbas could be ousted from power if the cycle of violence did not abate. He said that there would be a meeting in Europe later this week of envoys focusing on the Middle East.
The envoys ? from the United States, the European Union, the United Nations and Russia ? are to prepare for a higher-level meeting attended by Secretary Powell in Jordan on June 22. The group, known as the quartet, devised the step-by-step plan to end violence and establish a Palestinian state in three years. The plan was endorsed by the Palestinians and, in a qualified manner, by Israel last week.
Despite the hopeful words from many sides, the fast-changing situation was putting new pressure on Mr. Bush to get more involved in saving the peace negotiations.
On one hand, Israel sought today to dispute the American analysis that led the Bush administration to condemn the attack on the Hamas leader. Israeli officials said that far from being a mere political spokesman for Hamas, Dr. Rantisi was part of a faction within Hamas that advocated attacks on Israel as a means to destroy Mr. Abbas, who is also known as Abu Mazen.
"There has been an ongoing debate within leadership circles in Hamas over the last few days about how to approach Abu Mazen," an Israeli official said. "One faction has said we have to fight against Abu Mazen and intensify terrorism. This faction lies outside Hamas itself ? in Damascus, Jordan and elsewhere. Rantisi is one of their most vocal forces."
But other diplomats said the Israelis had to know that the attack would provoke a new cycle of violence and make it impossible for Mr. Abbas to keep what little support he has among Palestinians.
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN and JAMES DAO
ASHINGTON, June 11 ? Supporters of Israel in and out of Congress assailed President Bush today for criticizing Israeli attacks on Palestinian militant groups as the administration worked to protect its Middle East peace initiative from a new cycle of violence.
On a day of new attacks and counterattacks by Israeli and Palestinian militant forces, diplomats said there was concern in the administration that without dramatic improvement of some kind, the peace initiative known as the road map could founder.
A day after he criticized Israel for its attempt to kill a militant Palestinian leader, Mr. Bush today denounced a suicide bomb attack on a bus in Jerusalem that killed 16 people and wounded more than 100.
"I strongly condemn the killings," he said, "and I urge and call upon all of the free world, nations which love peace, to not only condemn the killings, but to use every ounce of their power to prevent them from happening in the future."
At a hearing of the House International Relations Committee, Representative Gary L. Ackerman, said that Mr. Bush's rebuke might lead his critics "to think of the word hypocrisy."
"How can we take certain actions in response to terrorism, and then tell others that when they do the same exact thing that it is not helpful?" Mr. Ackerman, a New York Democrat, said during questioning of William J. Burns, the State Department's senior diplomat for Middle Eastern affairs.
The influential pro-Israel lobbying group, the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, known as Aipac, issued a rare criticism of Mr. Bush, if only obliquely. Israel, it said, "will and must take the responsibility to fight terrorist organizations" and "it should be the policy of the U.S. to support" such actions.
The bombing today was an apparent retaliation for Israel's attempt to kill Dr. Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a top leader of Hamas, on Tuesday. It happened at about the same time as an Israeli missile attack in Gaza.
Despite the violence, senior administration officials said that the peace initiative was still alive.
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and Kofi Annan, the United Nations secretary general met and urged calm.
"There are those who do not wish to see the Palestinian people achieve a state living side by side in peace with Israel," Mr. Powell said. He called on Israel, the Palestinians and the Arab nations in the region to "remain steadfast, to continue moving down the path that was laid out at Aqaba last week by the leaders who were assembled."
Mr. Powell was referring to a summit meeting in Jordan last week attended by Mr. Bush, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel and the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas.
Mr. Annan called on the Israelis and Palestinians to "stay the course."
But there was an unusual quality to the statements given the inflamed situation. If there was a new wrinkle to the day's developments, it was the criticism directed at Mr. Bush for his rebuke of the Israeli government on Tuesday.
Reflecting dismay that a new round of violence might undermine the spirit achieved in Aqaba and Sharm el Sheik, Mr. Bush said the attack on the Hamas leader would not help Israel's security. His statement drew fire from those saying that Israel had carried out the attacks to defend itself, just as the United States has done.
Representative Robert Wexler, a Florida Democrat, said Israel's use of military force to protect itself against "a ticking time bomb factory" was "100 percent justified."
Representative Tom Lantos of California, the ranking Democrat on the International Relations Committee, defended Israel's right to protect itself, saying that the Palestinian Authority under Mr. Abbas was unable to do the job. If the Palestinians will not disarm terrorists, "then Israel clearly will do so," he said.
"We would do so," he continued. "Any self-respecting society will do so. People in government have to defend their citizens."
Appearing before the committee, Mr. Burns, the assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs, acknowledged under sharp questioning from Democrats that Mr. Abbas would probably have to take forceful steps to disarm and dismantle terrorist groups if the peace initiative were to succeed. "I believe he is committed to doing the hard things that are going to be required to make that possible," Mr. Burns said.
But a diplomat in touch with the administration said that the situation was so perilous that Mr. Abbas could be ousted from power if the cycle of violence did not abate. He said that there would be a meeting in Europe later this week of envoys focusing on the Middle East.
The envoys ? from the United States, the European Union, the United Nations and Russia ? are to prepare for a higher-level meeting attended by Secretary Powell in Jordan on June 22. The group, known as the quartet, devised the step-by-step plan to end violence and establish a Palestinian state in three years. The plan was endorsed by the Palestinians and, in a qualified manner, by Israel last week.
Despite the hopeful words from many sides, the fast-changing situation was putting new pressure on Mr. Bush to get more involved in saving the peace negotiations.
On one hand, Israel sought today to dispute the American analysis that led the Bush administration to condemn the attack on the Hamas leader. Israeli officials said that far from being a mere political spokesman for Hamas, Dr. Rantisi was part of a faction within Hamas that advocated attacks on Israel as a means to destroy Mr. Abbas, who is also known as Abu Mazen.
"There has been an ongoing debate within leadership circles in Hamas over the last few days about how to approach Abu Mazen," an Israeli official said. "One faction has said we have to fight against Abu Mazen and intensify terrorism. This faction lies outside Hamas itself ? in Damascus, Jordan and elsewhere. Rantisi is one of their most vocal forces."
But other diplomats said the Israelis had to know that the attack would provoke a new cycle of violence and make it impossible for Mr. Abbas to keep what little support he has among Palestinians.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
It's like watching an insane tennis match in slow motion with explosives used instead of tennis balls. Neither side can quit. Sucks.
AMCRambler
Diamond Member
- Jan 23, 2001
- 7,715
- 31
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I also agree with Bush. Even though it seems hypocritical, if Israel wants peace they will have to stop killing, otherwise the cycle of retaliatory attacks will just continue. At this point attacking with such potent force as helicopter gunships was incredibly stupid, especially since for the first time the Palestinians have a leader actually willing to negotiate peace. It makes him look weak to his people if the country he is trying to make peace with, double crosses him and attacks his people and he does nothing about it.
So is everyone agreeing the Orwellian "war is peace" thing doesn't fly? Is so how can you attack Israel for this while supporting Bush?
So is everyone agreeing the Orwellian "war is peace" thing doesn't fly? Is so how can you attack Israel for this while supporting Bush?
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Strange as it may seem, I agree wtih Bush on this. Yes, Ackerman is right, it is hypocritical to condemn Israel's use of violence given our own recent track record. Nonetheless, two wrongs don't make a right. Good for Bush.
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Damn guys, go easy on my mind there. I just got a numb cerebellum reading your two post along with the rest.
The only solution I can see is that we make up the rules as we go along, right? Rule A for situation X and B for Y. Otherwise we'll go nuts, unless, of course, we already are.
-------------------------------
Strange as it may seem, I agree wtih Bush on this. Yes, Ackerman is right, it is hypocritical to condemn Israel's use of violence given our own recent track record. Nonetheless, two wrongs don't make a right. Good for Bush.
------------------------
Damn guys, go easy on my mind there. I just got a numb cerebellum reading your two post along with the rest.
The only solution I can see is that we make up the rules as we go along, right? Rule A for situation X and B for Y. Otherwise we'll go nuts, unless, of course, we already are.
This isn't about peace, it's about security. Only when that is achieved can peace follow. These people are terrorists, the US should demand they be turned over to Israel by the PA, otherwise support these attacks. Hamas has already stated the killing will continue, even before the first botched attack. They have to be stopped, and if the US won't do it, and the PA won't do, I don't see how Israel can't.
Not really. Sure they go overboard sometimes, sure they are not as careful about collateral damage as they could be, but Israel isn't spcifically targeting Palestinian (non-terrorist) civilians.
I have seen several very consertive reporters on the cable channels disagree with Bush on this matter, does that make them trators like the persons that disagreed about the war?
It has not been long ago that a Boatload of weapons that Arafat bought was intercepted, the money spent for this could have been used to help his people in a lot of ways other than killing Jews.
You guys should be able to tell by now that the Muslum faith has as there prime objective to remove from the face of the earth all that do not believe as they do. Islam is a religon based on hate and terror, suicide a way to get to Heaven, killing others the act of faith that supercedes all others. The Palestinians do nothing to help there people they just want to kill. If Isrial does not fight back they will be driven into the sea it is as simple as that.
Bleep
It has not been long ago that a Boatload of weapons that Arafat bought was intercepted, the money spent for this could have been used to help his people in a lot of ways other than killing Jews.
You guys should be able to tell by now that the Muslum faith has as there prime objective to remove from the face of the earth all that do not believe as they do. Islam is a religon based on hate and terror, suicide a way to get to Heaven, killing others the act of faith that supercedes all others. The Palestinians do nothing to help there people they just want to kill. If Isrial does not fight back they will be driven into the sea it is as simple as that.
Bleep
How many times do I have to say it. If you want Palestinian terrorism to stop, give them nuclear weapons and a military the equivalent of Israel's. The suicide bombings will stop immediately.
Uhh, that would be like throwing a match in a tub of gasoline. I'm all for the Palestinian state, and for the butting of funds to Isreal, but that would be plain stupid.
Piano Man, I know it's plain stupid, just as plain stupid as people who have all the cards whining because the opposition in abject desperation and humiliation used suicide bombers as a last resort. Switch all the babies in the hospitals and in 15 years it will be Jews who blow themselves up. People demonize a group when it is the contest into which they have been put that is the evil. The Jews have become what they feared. Out of their own psychosis they are reliving their past, staying close to the feeling of being hated and scorned. They will bring into being the thing they fear. It's how we are. We prefer to remain blind to this, to not see. The only way man can be free is to experience his fear, to remember how it came to be. The thing about fear, though, is that you will do anything to avoid it. Anything.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
MB,
I guess Sadat was just trying to allow them to experience their past... but, how could he feed em all down there in Giza?
The Israeli is going to respond and respond and respond... and the Arab is going to continue as well. Peace is not going to happen... Islam Clerics sees the Jew as evil to be eliminated and until Islam is interpreted to mean what is could mean the issue will not end. Me thinks
I guess Sadat was just trying to allow them to experience their past... but, how could he feed em all down there in Giza?
The Israeli is going to respond and respond and respond... and the Arab is going to continue as well. Peace is not going to happen... Islam Clerics sees the Jew as evil to be eliminated and until Islam is interpreted to mean what is could mean the issue will not end. Me thinks
When you look at the Arab Jew thingi, you are looking at yourself. That is how we are. The question is, is it how we want to continue to be. The closer you are to the infection the more invisible it is.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Islam suggests heaven for the folks who blow themselves up for the cause. The Jew fights back because he knows this. Preemptive strikes are a necessity for Israel... A war of attrition is not in Israel's interest.
the only way to peace is a US Guarantee that any strike on Israel is one on the US... but, the terrorist issue will not stop even with that. Only will stop if we go after the support system in syria and elsewhere. It is the way of these folks and to a much lesser extent North Ireland... But, hate is hate... I agree the closer ya be the further away it seems to be.
Let see, if Israel stops retaliating.. what will happen? They will continue to be attacked.. Hmm.. okay, so they should just sit there and allow their citizens to be killed.. then peace will happen.. Yeah, I don't think so.. The palestinians have little interest in peace, they will not stop until Israel is exterminated. And if that happens, they will just kill eachother.. since thats what they have been doing for thousands of years.
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