Bitcoin sellers remorse.... how many people are kicking themselves for cashing out>?

[IceBergSLiM]

The bigger and more diverse the market the harder to manipulate.

how so? Didn't one rogue transaction cause the flash crashes that happened in the past few years?

 

[MrColin]

The original designer, IIRC an anonymous Japanese mathematician/cryptographer.

I think his name was Satori Nakamoto, and he has refused all interviews etc, and appears to want to keep a low profile.

I don't think bitcoins are really "lost". They can be stolen in a way similar that cash can be stolen from your wallet, but rarely will it be lost for good.

You can lose them if the HDD holding your wallet dies and you haven't backed up your wallet file.

I see a lot of folks complaining or voicing concern that bitcoin is not backed up by some authority or underlying asset. The US dollar is also not backed by any asset, but its value is manipulated/effected by a couple of authorities. Bitcoin is an experiment in absolute free market economics. Most are predicting a deflationary spiral, such deflation really only matters if it is widely used to pay wages. If you are holding a large number of bitcoins, deflation is great. It is backed by the current market which has generally been pretty effing volitile. Lots of people are also freaked out by this but volatility is fanfuckingtastic if you are speculating, just like in the stock market. The underlying protocol has held up to 4 years of motivated scrutiny, a few bitcoin heists have taken place, and they were not the result of flaws in bitcoin itself but the computers containing the wallets holding the bitcoins being hacked. There was also the big crash of MtGox, the largest bitcoin currency exchange, driven by a hack of the site that crashed the market briefly, also independent of the bitcoin protocol itself.

So, no, its not US dollars, nor is it really trying to be. Its just a medium of exchange with no central authority messing with the value of people's wealth, unlike the dollar.

 

[WelshBloke]

how so? Didn't one rogue transaction cause the flash crashes that happened in the past few years?

Just look at the fluctuations in the value of bitcoins.

 

[WelshBloke]

Investment is the wrong way to think of it. If you're "investing", you're gambling. Nothing wrong with that, but the rules of gambling apply, and people should never forget that.
...

A few huge players is worse than one?

It's not supposed to be an investment. If you don't want to use it as one, then don't.

But even in the extreme short term they are incredibly unstable. There's no way of knowing if you're stash will be worthless in the morning. It's hard to avoid a gamble with them.

 

[AstroManLuca]

There's no hope of the government making good on anything. People are pretending it's all cool, but only a fool would think they'd gt their money(what is that anyway?) if they wanted to cash out. The equivalent would be me charging up Bill Gates' value on a credit card. You really think Visa will get that money from me? :^D


That's a feature. That means no one manipulates bitcoin. It's at the mercy of the market.

But if it's all at the mercy of the market, doesn't that mean EVERYONE manipulates Bitcoin (more or less depending on how much they control)?

And if that's true, then why would Bitcoin be any more desirable than any other form of currency? It could fall off a cliff any second and you wouldn't even have any warning whatsoever. It's more volatile and riskier than any stock you can buy.

I mean, if Bitcoin supporters would just admit that they're trying to play what is basically an underground stock market, fine. It's not a very good currency if the value can swing as dramatically as it has in the past (and will in the future).

 

[zinfamous]

Understood that the currency is pretend in most circumstances but I would like to ask again.

What does building a block of data give the world? I can give someone gold, silver, us dollars and even euro in return for labor. I cannot give this block of data to anyone because it's not useful to the world.

Let me ask again. Why is a block of data worth gold, silver, us dollars or euro if that block of data has no value to anyone or anything?

who's to say that you can't use bitcoin to create labor?

advertise on CL, see if you can get someone to paint your house for 10 bitcoins.

It is worth what someone values it at, as we all say.

 

[Sloper]

A small market has less liquidity so yes, it's more prone to wild swings. Only invest at your own caution with money you're willing to part with. If bitcoin does go mainstream, we are still way in the early adopter stage. Even techy ppl can't understand it. It'll be a long time until the average Joe gets it.

Also, bitcoin isn't only a currency. It's a transaction system, ala paypal/visa/mastercard. It's two in one. So there's some intrinsic value there as a cheap digital payment facilitator. I think I've read that if paypal's volume was done in bitcoins, each coin is worth 1000+.

 

[Juddog]

who's to say that you can't use bitcoin to create labor?

advertise on CL, see if you can get someone to paint your house for 10 bitcoins.

It is worth what someone values it at, as we all say.

Actually there was a guy recently who was selling his entire house for bitcoins.

 

[Train]

But even in the extreme short term they are incredibly unstable. There's no way of knowing if you're stash will be worthless in the morning. It's hard to avoid a gamble with them.

Why would you hold them overnight if you are not an investor? It only takes 5-10 minutes to propagate a transaction.

If you are not an investor (a lot of bitcoin users aren't) Transfer it to your intended destination (online store, casino, bank, whatever) and be done with it.

This is what the majority of poker players are doing. Getting dollars from their US accounts into dollars in offshore casino accounts. They literally don't give two shits about what the current exchange rate is.

 

[darkewaffle]

Actually there was a guy recently who was selling his entire house for bitcoins.

Was it the guy who made his house with a 3d printer? Somehow those seem to go hand in hand.

 

[lxskllr]

And if that's true, then why would Bitcoin be any more desirable than any other form of currency?

For me, it's the anonymity. Cash works good in the offline world, but it isn't as good for online. I also like the fact that it isn't controlled by any government. I don't trust god or country.

Other people may have other reasons for liking it. Same as gold. There's good reasons for not using greenbacks at all, and only using precious metals for trade. I think that's a PITA, but there's good reasons for doing it. Bitcoin isn't for everyone, same as any other trading tool. The world's big enough that we can have numerous tools.

 

[WelshBloke]

Why would you hold them overnight if you are not an investor? It only takes 5-10 minutes to propagate a transaction.

If you are not an investor (a lot of bitcoin users aren't) Transfer it to your intended destination (online store, casino, bank, whatever) and be done with it.

This is what the majority of poker players are doing. Getting dollars from their US accounts into dollars in offshore casino accounts. They literally don't give two shits about what the current exchange rate is.

But if I sell tonight at 35 dollars and they are worth 75 in the morning I've effectively lost a lot of money.

 

[Train]

But if I sell tonight at 35 dollars and they are worth 75 in the morning I've effectively lost a lot of money.

lolno.

 

[airdata]

Oh snap... I just found 1 whole bitcoin on my old computer's wallet....

 

[Juddog]

But if I sell tonight at 35 dollars and they are worth 75 in the morning I've effectively lost a lot of money.

That's not lost money, that's just money you didn't gain. There is a distinct difference.

 

[gorcorps]

But if I sell tonight at 35 dollars and they are worth 75 in the morning I've effectively lost a lot of money.

The only way you lost money is if your cost to gain those bitcoins cost you over $35/coin. You didn't LOSE money by cashing out early, you just didn't gain as much as you could have. It's a gamble though with how much the prices change.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Every single day.

I was one of the early GPU miners. I peaked at 30+ GPUs and 11 Ghash/s running from February to September of 2011. I believed it was too good to be true so I didn't hoard very many. I sold the last of my "reserves" when they were $16 a piece a month or so ago.

I made about $10k profit after all the GPUs and hardware were sold off and coins sold.

The worst is when you do the math. If I had sold all my coins that I had generated over the length of my mining operation, today, I would have nearly 2 million dollars.

 

[drebo]

You know what's really funny?

The people in this thread defending bitcoins are using the exact same arguments that people who defend a gold standard currency.

"It has value because I think it's valuable."

"Isn't manipulable like paper dollars."

Etc etc.

I just think it's funny is all.

 

[gorcorps]

Every single day.

I was one of the early GPU miners. I peaked at 30+ GPUs and 11 Ghash/s running from February to September of 2011. I believed it was too good to be true so I didn't hoard very many. I sold the last of my "reserves" when they were $16 a piece a month or so ago.

I made about $10k profit after all the GPUs and hardware were sold off and coins sold.

The worst is when you do the math. If I had sold all my coins that I had generated over the length of my mining operation, today, I would have nearly 2 million dollars.

Man, that's quite the investment you made. I'd probably kick myself too

 

[airdata]

Every single day.

I was one of the early GPU miners. I peaked at 30+ GPUs and 11 Ghash/s running from February to September of 2011. I believed it was too good to be true so I didn't hoard very many. I sold the last of my "reserves" when they were $16 a piece a month or so ago.

I made about $10k profit after all the GPUs and hardware were sold off and coins sold.

The worst is when you do the math. If I had sold all my coins that I had generated over the length of my mining operation, today, I would have nearly 2 million dollars.

;(

I was waiting for you to post. i remember when i dabbled I always saw you posting and talked to you about all the hardware you were running.

 

[zinfamous]

Every single day.

I was one of the early GPU miners. I peaked at 30+ GPUs and 11 Ghash/s running from February to September of 2011. I believed it was too good to be true so I didn't hoard very many. I sold the last of my "reserves" when they were $16 a piece a month or so ago.

I made about $10k profit after all the GPUs and hardware were sold off and coins sold.

The worst is when you do the math. If I had sold all my coins that I had generated over the length of my mining operation, today, I would have nearly 2 million dollars.

ouch.

 

[isekii]

Every single day.

I was one of the early GPU miners. I peaked at 30+ GPUs and 11 Ghash/s running from February to September of 2011. I believed it was too good to be true so I didn't hoard very many. I sold the last of my "reserves" when they were $16 a piece a month or so ago.

I made about $10k profit after all the GPUs and hardware were sold off and coins sold.

The worst is when you do the math. If I had sold all my coins that I had generated over the length of my mining operation, today, I would have nearly 2 million dollars.

That would be a nice pad in san fran

 

[airdata]

You know what's really funny?

The people in this thread defending bitcoins are using the exact same arguments that people who defend a gold standard currency.

"It has value because I think it's valuable."

"Isn't manipulable like paper dollars."

Etc etc.

I just think it's funny is all.

Well to be fair, I made the thread to talk about people like myself who sold their bitcoins for jack shit and now look @ the $70+ per coin price and need a stiff drink after work.

Didn't intend it to be a forum for people to talk about economics..

More of a forum to for people to cry on eachother's shoulder and contemplate how if you still had the btc you sold you could be debt free, pay off mortgage, etc.

 

[Juddog]

Every single day.

I was one of the early GPU miners. I peaked at 30+ GPUs and 11 Ghash/s running from February to September of 2011. I believed it was too good to be true so I didn't hoard very many. I sold the last of my "reserves" when they were $16 a piece a month or so ago.

I made about $10k profit after all the GPUs and hardware were sold off and coins sold.

The worst is when you do the math. If I had sold all my coins that I had generated over the length of my mining operation, today, I would have nearly 2 million dollars.

Damn... that's a good chunk of change.

It makes me wonder though - if people have bitcoins in a digital wallet, and the PC that stores it completely crashes out, assuming no backup for that PC, are those bitcoins lost in the big bit bucket forever, with nobody to claim them?

 

[MonKENy]

ok the only thing I cant wrap my head around is what are people computing.

Like someone else asked, folding at home is computing protein structures and is doing it for medical research

What is bitcoin a reward for? Did this guy who created them just make up a bunch of algorithms for people to crack and when they do they get a coin like some type of Easter egg?

Do the cracks they make actually provide anything? Are they cracking programs, databases, passwords? Are they computing previously unknown problems and fixing them?

Is it just a game?