Originally posted by: jpeyton
Am I the only person who noticed the fact that Boeing already had the contract back in 2003, but lost it because corruption charges were filed and they received heavy fines for procurement fraud? Two of their executives received jail time, including their CFO, and their CEO resigned soon after.
How is this a slap against Boeing? Do you guys often give this much sympathy to companies that lose contracts because they defrauded the public?
Originally posted by: PottedMeat
Was that the same contract where Boeing was trying to have the USAF lease tankers for far far more than buying them outright?
Why do people keep thinking giving contracts to US companies will guarantee US jobs? They'll go for parts whereever they're cheapest, have the best tax breaks, or have the greatest experience, then they'll ship the parts here and put the whole thing together. Thats just the way things are going to work.
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Nice! Competition means lower prices for taxpayers.
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: jpeyton
You mean with the A380 already in service while the 787 just got pushed back another year to early 2009?Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
We all know how well that worked out too.
It got pushed back from May 2008 to Beginning of 2009, how is that another year? That is 8 months. The A380 was delay for two years. Why do you hate Boeing and American jobs so much?
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Nice! Competition means lower prices for taxpayers.
The KC-30 will cost more than the KC-767 per aircraft. Not to mention more to fly and operate.
Originally posted by: ericlp
ignorance is bliss I guess...
Do you really think if Boeing got the deal then it would have been made by American workers? Don't know where you got your info, but Boeing business model is that most of the parts are made all over the world and just assembled here in the USA. I highly doubt that Boeings tanker would have been made in the USA.
The majority of the 767 is built in the US by US employees. The conversion would've also been done in the US by US employees. Now the 767 line will likely be closed in the near future and those jobs will never come back.
Also, very few large sections of the A330 are made in the US. That 60% US part is a completely load of BS, unless they are counting connectors.
I did limited gathering on Wiki and it appears the EADS aircraft will cost 2x as much and carry less fuel. Not to mention the wing refuelers are optional from what it seems, while the Boeing ones are superior. Correct me if I am wrong.
Originally posted by: ericlp
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/...0629/787assemblers.gif
I know that the rudder and a bunch of other parts are currently made in "CHINA!!!" But the above graph does not show that for some "unknown" Reason....
Besides for the engines can someone point out all the Jobs the USA is getting from Boeings new work model? Yeah made here in the USA? Guess again...
Originally posted by: Pandaren
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I just love how people can be dancing on the grave of a contract when they bemoan the death of manufacturing here.
Here's why we're dancing:
(1) Assembly of the tankers will be in the US, with majority US-made parts.
LinkEADS announced it would put a plane assembly plant in Mobile, Alabama, if the company won the contract.
LinkBut Northrop and EADS recognized how important the role of jobs and domestic content would be, and they pledged to build the Airbus A330-based tankers in Mobile, Ala., by expanding EADS engineering facilities there. The Northrop/EADS team says the project will create 1,500 to 2,000 jobs and support 25,000 others and include 60% domestically produced parts.
(2) Citizens are pissed at Boeing for the corruption scandal concerning the 767-based tanker.
We get jobs and Boeing gets payback for its shady dealings. Besides, its not like Boeing doesn't have plenty of work. Boeing will make a ton of $ on the 787, which if I recall is beating the crud out of Airbus in contracts awarded.
Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm one of those horrible nationalists who believes our government should not be doing a single dime of business with foreign companies. America should be spending American tax dollars in America, buying American made products, made by American workers who spend their American money in America...unfortunately, buying Chinese made goods...it doesn't matter if the plane is made by a company in a NATO country, nor if they build a plant in Bum-Fuck Alabama where workers may earn $9.00/hour...the government should NOT be buying foreign made...IMO, it's UN-AMERICAN!
Originally posted by: jpeyton
You mean with the A380 already in service while the 787 just got pushed back another year to early 2009?Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
We all know how well that worked out too.
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Pandaren
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I just love how people can be dancing on the grave of a contract when they bemoan the death of manufacturing here.
Here's why we're dancing:
(1) Assembly of the tankers will be in the US, with majority US-made parts.
LinkEADS announced it would put a plane assembly plant in Mobile, Alabama, if the company won the contract.
LinkBut Northrop and EADS recognized how important the role of jobs and domestic content would be, and they pledged to build the Airbus A330-based tankers in Mobile, Ala., by expanding EADS engineering facilities there. The Northrop/EADS team says the project will create 1,500 to 2,000 jobs and support 25,000 others and include 60% domestically produced parts.
(2) Citizens are pissed at Boeing for the corruption scandal concerning the 767-based tanker.
We get jobs and Boeing gets payback for its shady dealings. Besides, its not like Boeing doesn't have plenty of work. Boeing will make a ton of $ on the 787, which if I recall is beating the crud out of Airbus in contracts awarded.
With the exchange rates and crazy EU unions (see the a380 fuck up), it's no wonder EADS will build these things in right-to-work state.
Originally posted by: halik
Right to work scores again? I'm all for the government buying the best deal, it's cheaper on my taxes.
Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's a better plane for more money, but they're honest.
Integrity counts for something. My guess is that Boeing will be a little more careful before pulling another procurement scam that costs them a $35-$100 billion contract. :laugh:
Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm one of those horrible nationalists who believes our government should not be doing a single dime of business with foreign companies. America should be spending American tax dollars in America, buying American made products, made by American workers who spend their American money in America...unfortunately, buying Chinese made goods...it doesn't matter if the plane is made by a company in a NATO country, nor if they build a plant in Bum-Fuck Alabama where workers may earn $9.00/hour...the government should NOT be buying foreign made...IMO, it's UN-AMERICAN!
That was probably one of the most shameful moments in American history. I can't believe you're actually using it to defend your argument.Originally posted by: bctbct
5 years ago we went thru a phase where we wouldnt even call a french fry...a french fry, for a short time they we called Freedom fries. How soon we forget.
Originally posted by: jpeyton
That was probably one of the most shameful moments in American history. I can't believe you're actually using it to defend your argument.Originally posted by: bctbct
5 years ago we went thru a phase where we wouldnt even call a french fry...a french fry, for a short time they we called Freedom fries. How soon we forget.
Guess what? The French were right. No WMDs, and we're paying $400 million a day for our mistake. :laugh: As a taxpayer, I would rather deal with the French (who tried so hard to save us from our costly mistakes) than the crooks at Boeing.
Grumman is an America contractor, too.Originally posted by: bctbct
You want to talk about the deal or my rhetoric?
This is about who benefits
France
Airbus
French workers
or
USA
Boeing
American taxpayers
Choose your loyalty
Originally posted by: Lothar
Oh and the 60% figure people here in this thread seem to be throwing about is ridiculous.
"The EADS/Northrop Grumman team plans to perform its final assembly work in Mobile, Ala., although the underlying plane would mostly be built in Europe."
It's using GE engines, but MOST of the assembly work will be done in Europe, period.