Biostar Tforce 6100 AM2 mini-review

[Zap]

Biostar Tforce 6100 AM2 mini-review

I got mine from Newegg.

I spent a little bit of time using this board last night and would just like to give my quick thoughts on it. Besides the motherboard, I'll give some thoughts on DDR2 since I encountered some issues.

DETAILS:
micro ATX
Geforce 6100 chipset
1x PCI-E 16x
1x PCI-E 1x
2x PCI
4x DDR2
socket AM2

BIOS:
HTT 200-450MHz in 1MHz increments
VCORE +0.05/0.10/0.15v
RAM DDR2 400/533/667/800/1066
VDIMM 1.85/1.90/1.95/2.00v

GOOD:
mATX with overclocking (still not too common)
high HTT support
flexibility of IGP as well as PCI-E 16x
DDR2 support meaning you can now switch platforms w/o having to buy new RAM
support from the lowly Sempron to the top end dual core A64
Semprons can now have dual channel (not counting the OEM only socket 939 Semprons)
board has power/reset for easy bench testing
CPU fan header is the new four pin style, backwards compatible with traditional 3 pin
can now turn off Biostar splash screen on POST
passively cooled

BAD:
compared to socket 754/939 versions this board has really weak voltage options
can't find Memtest option in BIOS that other Tforce boards have
Northbridge heatsink really weak
doesn't have Smart Fan control that other Tforce boards have
new AM2 heatsink mount barely clears the heatsink - people who remove the IHS beware!

TEST PARTS:
AM2 Sempron 2800+
retail box HSF
2GB PQI DDR2-533 dual channel kit
Radeon X800GTO
Antec Phantom 350W PSU
random optical drive (testing done in WUBCD)

THOUGHTS:
Still decent overclocking for mATX, but doesn't live up to the excellent socket 754/939 versions of same board. Initially would just get RAM "beeeeeeeep" error from PC speaker with both sticks installed. One stick at a time was fine. Manually increased RAM voltage and decreased latencies (instead of leaving on "AUTO") and both sticks worked fine together in dual channel. This was while running totally stock speeds. I've read a lot of end-user reviews on various boards using DDR2 and many people have had issues with RAM compatibility - perhaps the workaround is to manually set stuff? Highest HTT was 275MHz tested in 5MHz increments. Will not POST at 280MHz, but was Prime95 stable (for the 30 minutes I let it run) at 275MHz with no vcore increase. The DDR2-533 RRAM was set to lowest DDR2-400 setting, but with HTT increased, my calculations put the RAM at 550MHz so seems as if RAM doesn't have much room for overclocking. Being that there isn't a lower setting for RAM, I'm thinking I should have gotten faster stuff. It's like trying for record overclocks on socket 939 using DDR266 - you hit the RAM limit pretty quickly. IMO the CPU at 2.2GHz isn't even breaking a sweat, but I won't know for sure until I get faster RAM. One neat thing though is that Biostar put all the accessories into a mesh zippered bag. It's not shown in the pictures, but is a nice touch. However, I'd rather have a better (as in more tweakable) BIOS than extra goodies.

CONCLUSION:
The board is fine if you need mATX since I don't know of any other AM2 mATX board that overclocks better at this time. It is also fine if you need IGP or want something cheap (around $75). You can have a $130 mobo/CPU combo that's pretty nice and upgradable, as well as overclockable. That's nice value. However, serious overclockers and people who don't need IGP or mATX are probably better off with an ATX board that has a better BIOS. Now for some general recommendations. With DDR2 there may be some issues with motherboards that may require manual timings for RAM to even work (chicken & egg problem). In time perhaps I will be proven right... or wrong. Also with DDR2, for anyone thinking of overclocking, even if you're a cheap bastard like me, buy faster stuff!!! I'm regretting getting the DDR2-533 and wish I had gone for at least DDR2-667 or 800. Anything faster than that is at a huge price premium, but I truely believe my overclocks are currently limited by the slower RAM since there's no RAM divider to drop memory down below DDR2-400 since that's the slowest "official" speed. With DDR, slowest was PC1600, which equals the 100MHz (DDR200) setting in BIOS, or PC2100 which equaled the 133MHz (DDR266) setting in BIOS. That gives the average person with budget DDR400 a fighting chance to hit 300MHz HTT by using the 133MHz RAM setting. There is no such luxury with "budget" DDR2 and for AM2 systems you'll need at least DDR2-667 to get near pushing the CPU to limits. For Biostar it is two steps forward and one step back. AMD took a sidestep for the most part, but the Semprons have gained value IMO.

 

[customcoms]

Everybody is complaining about this ram "incompaitability". Where were they at the launch of the DFI Lanparty nForce4 series? It took 2 MONTHS before a bios was released that could regularly boot with most ram. I had to to fight with some twinmos CH-5 for two weeks before it was released and it still didn't work (don't know why, since it was supposed to be compaitable and it was stable in two other machines). Went with some OCZ Gold (needed dual channel+1gb at the time anyway) and its been just fine ever since. Buy reconmended ram and wait for a good bios (no one could run OCZ Gold on their lanparty before the bios release mentioned above either). Wait for some bios updates everyone and I bet your "memory incompaitability" will disappear, and your clocks will get better!

 

[Zap]

Heh, these memory incompatibilities date from before the DFI boards. I had some Shuttle AN35N boards - Nforce2 chipset, didn't like this pair of Geil Golden Dragon sticks but they'd work just fine if I used some other stick of RAM to POST the board and manually set the latencies, then turn off system and swap RAM. But, clear CMOS and problem would come back of course.

I recall the DFI boards also had a lot of issues initially with Corsair VS.

 

[lilila001]

I got the same board two days ago:

X2 4200+, 2G PQI DDRII 533, HIS X800XL, 2x 250 GB HDs, and NEC 3550A.

The problem is the onboard NIC is not detected by windows. Have to use a spare 108M wireless PCI card right now.

 

[Zap]

Did you install Nvidia drivers? I home this isn't going to be the same problem as before with one batch of the socket 939 boards all with bad NICs. I actually tested mine using Windows Ultimate Boot CD (W-UBCD) which does not have the drivers, so I didn't test the NIC.

 

[lilila001]

Well. Just found out I flashed the board with the cheaper GeForce 6100 AM2 BIOS.

After updating with the new and right cr51a517.bst BIOS, which I found at cr51a517.bst, everything looks fine now.

I tried OC with the onboard software, choosing V12 engine, the CPU runs at 2.7 GHz smoothly with only 2 or 3 more degrees higher.

 

[Zap]

Rock on lilila001, and welcome to the forums.

I want to rephrase what I said earlier about what RAM to aim for. I don't think DDR2-800 is a good choice at this time with this board for two reasons. First, too many reports of difficulties with AM2 and DDR2-800 not detecting properly. Maybe just a simple BIOS fix, but I'd just as soon not be a guinea pig. Also, most DDR2-800 is specified at high voltages, often more than this particular board can give (2.0-2.3v), and that's just for STOCK 800MHz speeds, plus most are CAS-5. Cheap DDR2-667 can be had spec'd at 1.8v and CAS-4. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that current DDR2-800 is just DDR2-667 "factory overclocked?"

Let's do some math... what can we push the CPU HTT to without overclocking the memory?

DDR2-533 = 261MHz
DDR2-667 = 333MHz
DDR3-800 = 400MHz

Even with my Sempron at the lowest available multiplier for AM2 of 8x, I don't think I'd be able to hit 3.2GHz out of the CPU, so DDR2-800 is not needed. However, my current DDR2-533 "limits" me to 2.08GHz which seems quite low. DDR2-667 will allow me 2.66GHz without even pushing the RAM. Hmmm, I think that's pretty darn reasonable for cheap memory that doesn't have (too many) known incompatibilities, runs at decent timings and stock voltages.

I plan to order some DDR2-667 to put my theories to the test. Should get the stuff in sometime mid-end of the week and I'll see if I can push my Biostar board and AM2 Sempron any higher.

 

[eplebnista]

Thanks for the info !:thumbsup:

 

[linux247]

I plan to order some DDR2-667 to put my theories to the test. Should get the stuff in sometime mid-end of the week and I'll see if I can push my Biostar board and AM2 Sempron any higher.

Hi Zap,

Do you know if it makes any difference if you were to purchase DDR2-675 (5400) vs. DDR2-667 (5300) - IYHO would it be beneficial to use the DDR2-675 and why. I'm asking because I noticed that Corsair makes the XMS2 stuff @ 675 in 2x512 packs and the VS is @ 667.

Thanks!

 

[Zap]

linux247, the difference is exactly as Corsair specified, basically 8MHz worth of RAM equaling to 4MHz higher FSB/HTT speeds. I wouldn't pay extra for 4MHz unless it also has much lower latencies.

 

[linux247]

Thanks for the response. Now, do you think that the lack of a higher voltage adjustment for the memory (2.00v) will hold you back in your exploration of what is possible with the mighty 2800+. Is there any other AM2 board you have had experience with or would recommend (up to $100) instead - uATX or ATX?

 

[Zap]

Well, with DDR2-667 I should have up to 333MHz HTT to play with, meaning my lowly 2800+ can potentially be at 2.6GHz without even raising memory voltage. This combo (when the RAM comes in) may be able to do that, but by then it'll probably be near the limits of the core and motherboard. At least that's what I think at this time based on playing with way too many socket 939/754 versions of similar chips and motherboards.

This is the first AM2 board I've purchased. I like the mATX form factor and cheap price, but if you were looking for up to $100 and regular ATX, there's a whole lot more boards available. I'd look for one of the newer chipsets such as Nforce 550 or 570U, or even ATI Crossfire chipset (are those out yet and at what price?). Or, if you're not in a super hurry to buy, then keep reading reviews.

 

[Trey22]

Gonna order the board you have Zap, since my Asus M2NPV-VM is "teh total suck" at overclocking.

Edit: Biostar board ordered from NE... waiting for it to ship. NE took back the Asus board and waived the restocking fee... woohoo!

 

[Zap]

Got the RAM in today, a day early. Haven't seen the likes since before the switch to UPS.

Here are my thoughts after testing:

The RAM does run at rated speed of 667 at minimal voltage of 1.85v and set to CAS 4. Clocking RAM above 700MHz and still at CAS 4 but with VDIMM at 2.00v, Memtest fails test #5 all over the place. Haven't tried at CAS 5.

This Biostar board will not autodetect this RAM. My first pair, the PQI stuff, would not work properly with both sticks in, unless I stuck one in and then manually set up stuff, then shut down and install second stick. This gigaram stuff won't detect no matter what. I narrowed it down to timings. If I leave CAS (as well as others but I haven't pinpointed which ones) on AUTO, the board will absolutely not POST with this RAM installed. All other settings can be on AUTO or default and are fine, but latencies have to be manually set. If I didn't have the PQI stuff I'd really be in trouble with this RAM. What's up with that? I read all over Newegg reviews on various DDR2 RAM (also, more common on "faster" modules) that many people are having issues. Some think it just dead RAM, but in my case since I had "working" RAM to get the board started with, I know for a fact that the RAM is good, BUT... if I had purchased this RAM and didn't have other RAM to kick-start the board with, I would think this RAM is bad because the motherboard just BEEEEEEEEEPs the memory error. Is it the fault of the memory manufacturer specifying above stock voltages or programming the SPD wrong? Is it the motherboard manufacturer not making the BIOS more properly detect the SPD? I don't know the answer, but I do know that it is an annoying problem that's bound to cause many futile RMAs. That will cost the vendor and manufacturer, plus might lose them that customer (if pissed enough). It also costs the customer shipping (sometimes both ways) plus sometimes a restocking fee, plus their new computer or upgrade will have to wait a bit longer.

Back to the motherboard (whew)... Even with the faster RAM (Memtest-ed to prove it can do it) the board will not POST at 280MHz. It seems like a board problem because the CPU isn't running hot at all and up to 270MHz runs great at default voltage. Bumping Vcore up to the max does not get it to POST at any higher speeds so unless proven wrong I think it is the board. BTW, my PQI DDR2-533 will POST at 667MHz CAS 4! Haven't run memtest yet, but if it passes then it was a really budget buy (2GB for around $105 at the time).

Since I still haven't heard of any better mATX AM2 overclocker board, I will still say that this is the board to get if you NEED such a board. Otherwise... I'd like to try out some other AM2 boards to see if I can get by this HTT 280MHz limitation. That, plus lack of Smart Fan and some other interesting stuff makes me disappointed in this Biostar board. I was really hoping for a socket AM2 version that was as excellent as the socket 939, and especially socket 754 versions, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[Trey22]

My Biostar 6100 board should be here Tues., 8/8.

I'm a bit confused (actually, really confused) on overclocking on this AM2 platform (currently reading the stickied OC guide in the CPU section). It's like I almost get it, but just need that last piece of info for it to all make sense. I have 1 stick of DDR2 533. I'll be pushing a AM2 Sempron 3000+ (1.6GHz).

What would be the defaults for the multi, CPU frequency, RAM settings? I figure they would be 8, 200, 400?

Say I go with a multi of 9x, CPU freqency of 275... this puts the RAM at 550, but it's rated at 533. Probably won't run at that speed, so setting the RAM to DD400 does what?

Edit1: I guess I'm missing what the dividers are for each of the supported memory settings (400, 533, 667, 800). Looking for those now.

Edit2: 400(9), 533(7), 667(6), 800(5)?

Edit3: I think this is helping clear things up... LINK.

 

[Zap]

OMG I feel like a 'tard.

I forgot to set HT multiplier down to 3x. In essence I was right - it was the board keeping me from hitting 280MHz HTT, but that's because of the HT multiplier setting. Once set to 3x I was able to POST at 335MHz HTT (in 5MHz increments). Unfortunately at that high speed it wasn't even stable enough to get back into BIOS, so I had to reset BIOS and of course that resets RAM to AUTO, which results in the board going "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." Time to swap out the RAM for the PQI stuff...

Now y'all know why I'm not being paid the big bucks to review hardware.

Anyways, so the board will POST at 335MHz HTT and the Sempron 2800+ CPU will POST at 2.68GHz using default voltage while the DDR2 is running at 670MHz in dual channel. Nice! Perhaps with a bit o' voltage I can hit 2.5-2.6GHz stable. Not bad for a $36 CPU.

Further testing awaits.

Also, found out that my gigaram modules autodetect at x-3-3-8. I'm guessing x=3 also, causing it to not POST on AUTO settings. Just setting the CAS manually to 4 or 5 gets it to POST, but it's a chicken/egg problem. You need to POST the board to be able to get into BIOS to change the RAM timings to let you POST to begin with... WTF? Someday I'll run CPU-Z on it to find out the RAM SPD settings.

Well, as I was typing this, clocked at 330MHz HTT for 2.64GHz CPU speed with +0.10v vcore boost, passing CPU burn-in. Looking good!

So far the BIG negative of the board is still the problem of not being able to properly detect RAM timings. That has the real potential to be a show stopper. A minor annoyance is lack of Speed Fan.

=========

Correction on my original post, there is no 1066MHz RAM speed. I was imagining things.

 

[Trey22]

I need some faster RAM... my 533 is holding me back since I'm shooting for 2.6GHz (325*8).

CPU - 290*8(2320MHz) @ default voltage (CPU-Z shows 1.344), idling at 36c
RAM - Set at DDR400, 1.9V, default timings. CPU-Z shows 3-3-3-9 1T
HTT - 3x

Can't really believe the memory is holding up at those speeds. Something's weird here.

Everything else I haven't touched and is set to defaults. When I can't boot into Windows anymore by raising the CPU Frequency, I'll loosen the timings on the memory. But I don't see how to set it to 4-4-4-12.

Haven't run any stability tests yet.

 

[Zap]

Definately timings holding you back. My cheap PQI DDR2-533 can be overclocked by about 150MHz with loose timings. For memory timings you go into the menu for the overclocking, then there's a submenu for RAM, and another submenu for timings... I think. Don't have the stuff set up right now.

Er, do you have the Tforce version or the Geforce version?

BTW, HardOCP reviews the Biostar Tforce 550 board and they don't get too great of an overclock, saying that past a certain point it won't POST. Sounds like what I was seeing. They don't say what BIOS settings they used. Hmmm...

 

[ItsAlive]

Hi,

I am considering upgrading to the Biostar Tforce 550 board. I noticed your post from the HardOCP review on the board. I am wondering if they did not run into the same problem you did. They state that they could not overclock past 250mhz but if they overlooked the HTT settings and had the multi set to 4x then the HTT would be running at 1000mhz which is what the board is rated for correct? As you have stated previously the bios version being used is unknown, but I highly doubt that someone who tests equipment and overclocks daily would overlook such a simple yet significant detail such as the HTT multi. However, stranger things have been known to happen.

I am an enthusiast of sorts, myself. Although, I am new to the whole DDR2 scene and was wondering if you could clarify something for me. When overclocking with DDR2, how do you calculate the effective ram speed? Is the equation the same as DDR except you multiply the end result by 4 to get the effective speed?

Example: (800/800 * 200) * 4 = 800mhz , and when overclocked to 2.6Ghz using 9x290 on the FSB it would look like this (533/800 * 290) * 4 = 772.85mhz
Or for 3Ghz using 10x300 would be (533/800 * 300) * 4 = 799.5mhz

Am I doing this correctly? Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Trey22]

I'm on the CR51A517BS BIOS. I have the TForce 6100 board. I'm up to 292*8 now, testing for stability.

Here's a pic of the BIOS RAM setting options... the settings you see are at the highest available values - LINK.

When I set DDRII Timing Item to DISABLED, I can boot fine and CPU-Z detects 3-3-3-9. When I set it to ENABLED and the values you see, it won't even POST. Hopefully you see why I'm so confused now .

 

[Zap]

Trey22, just got home from work and have brought the board up from the garage... but I'm sitting here icing my foot because I just hurt it about an hour ago. Still, I plan to hook up the board and check out what I have the RAM timings set to.

ItsAlive, I just figure it out based on math and the "stock" values. For instance...

HTT = 200MHz setting
RAM = DDR2 400MHz setting
Multiplier = 2x

HTT = 200MHz setting
RAM = DDR2 533MHz setting
Multiplier = 2.66x

HTT = 200MHz setting
RAM = DDR2 667MHz setting
Multiplier = 3.33x

HTT = 200MHz setting
RAM = DDR2 800MHz setting
Multiplier = 4x

So, Trey22 has his HTT set to 292. If his RAM is set to DDR2 400, then in reality it is running 2x292, or 584MHz. If he has his RAM set to DDR2 533, then in reality it is running 2.66x292 or ~777MHz. Anyways, not 100% sure that's the right way, but it seems to get roughly the "proper" end numbers.

 

[ItsAlive]

I think we both essentially did it correctly but came to the conclusion by different means. LOL

400/800 x 4 = 2
533/800 x 4 = 2.665
667/800 x 4 = 3.335
800/800 x 4 = 4

This seems to be the same as the way you calculated it. So if Trey22 is runnin his HTT set to 292 with a Ram divider of 400mhz then he would get (400/800 * 292) * 4 = 584mhz. Seems to work both ways. Like you said i dont know which way is the correct way to do it but if the answers come out the same i guess it really doesnt matter how you get there. I was just under the impression that multiply the FSB multi by the Ram divider and multiply by 2 to get effective DDR speeds so when doubling up by using DDR2 you would have to multiply that by 2 to get DDR2 speeds. I could be trying to make this more complicated than it has to be though LOL.

 

[Zap]

Trey22...

Go to "Performance Booster Zone"

Go to "DRAM Configuration"

That's where you took the screenshot, right? On that same screen as your screenshot, choose the very first item at the top of the screen, named "Memory Timings." The next screen you see, CAS latency will be top item. Does that help?

EDIT: YMMV with overclocking BTW, just to make that clear. Perhaps HardOCP really couldn't get that particular Biostar Tforce 550 board up any higher. I've generally have had good luck with the Tforce6100 series boards. I've owned them in socket 754, 939 and now AM2 versions. None has failed to hit over 300MHz HTT until this latest... socket 754 version. I picked up another one because I had a spare socket 754 Sempron. Well, this biotch won't POST at over 290MHz HTT (in 10MHz increments). I'm using a 2800+ so I have a really low multiplier. I can hit 290MHz HTT on fairly relaxed settings and default voltage, but 300 results in no POST. And yes, I've made sure that HT multiplier is set to 3x. Even tried 2x. No dice.

 

[Trey22]

These are the same exact BIOS screens I have:

http://www.pcstats.com/ArtVNL.cfm?articleid=1966&page=5

What BIOS are you running Zap? That has to be the difference.

 

[endlesszeal]

i just got this board at the "egg" too. i have to say, i was worried at first because many complained of pci-e, ide slots and nic not working properly, but it 2 out of the 3 is working for me so far. havent gotten to test the pci-e because no card, but crossing fingers.

its been up and running for 1 day straight, but no priming yet and nothing out of the ordinary has happened. i got some of the pqi turbo ddr2 800mz 1gb stick and it runs smoothly also with 5-5-5-15 1t timing. i had to adjust that manually to get those speeds and bumped the voltage to 2.0v, buecause it was defaulting to 1.8v. i have the divider at ddr2 667 and the htt 240 and stock everything else. the x2 3800+ seems to like it. my htt/ram is 1:1 now at 400mhz each.

anyway, i would recommend this board to anyone not looking for an 6150 chipset that has onboard video and pretty overclockable. the only thing is the NB seems to get hot. a lot hotter than the cpu, probably because its passive. might stick in a side intake that blows between the cpu and nb.

btw, what is the newest bios? i tried flashing the 6/23 with the utility and winflash,but it still says 5/16 (or whatever the one previous to 6/23) on the bios.