Bioshock What a game

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T2k

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,664
5
0
Good question - I remember havinglot of problems back then with this PoS illegal crap called Starforce...
 

Jules

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,213
0
0
Originally posted by: T2k
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
its a popular game so there are some trendy people who don't like it just for that.
I played it from start to finish,it took me 3 hours to get online activation due to their servers being overloaded,when I buy a retail game I expect to be able to play it straight away,not nextweek or 3 hours later,pirates have an easier time then gamers like myself that always buy games legally.

Gameplay wise there was nothing new ,few mobs here and there also sound was nothing special, nothing great about the exploring part,graphics were ok but nothing that made me go wow!!!...as to story I did not really enjoy it to be honest and game length wise was not that long(good for me you could say).

Yet reviewers and people give it 10/10 lol sorry I got to laugh,yes its my opinion only but at least I played it from start to finish and have played many great games in the pass,end of the day it did not live up to my expectations and some of the others agree with me as well.

Its not in my top 40 list and never will be,you could say one of the most disappointing games I have ever purchased.
What IS in your top 40 tho? Sometimes I prefer games not in many people's top 40.
BG,BG2,Deus Ex,The Witcher,KOTOR ,Undying etc....I think you get the idea.
Pretty good list there, aside from Deus Ex (and that's arguable I suppose) though they're very different games than Bioshock. Who knows though. You've pretty much listed some of my top 20 games as well (minus The Witcher which I haven't had a chance to play yet) so who knows what I'll think of Bioshock. Waiting for my new system around Dec to play The Witcher/Bioshock/Crysis.
BioShock does not fit on any list of great games :p

it is a very average shooter with pseudo-philosophical pretensions and a moronic plot that sink it; it is not a bad game by any means but the reviewers who gave it a ten are either stupid or sheepie hype-swallowers themselves
:thumbsdown:

A modern FPS that *destroys* BioShock in every way is Riddick:EfBB ... SystemShock2 is TEN times better and at least you had to make *real choices* not the pseudo-choice crap in BS that leads to the same linear stuck-on-rails ending no matter what way you choose or play. There is also no challenge in this game. Just die and come back without penalty to keep right on fighting now-weakened enemies

Stalker is a Waay better game [despite its faults] and at least IS a true RPG/FPS hybred with choices; DeuSex, VtMB are really what BS *claims* to be.

BioShock is BullShit
It's so clueless - it's PRICELESS! :D
lol
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,377
7
81
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: rodrigu3
all this over a game...
With all due respect, you must be new to posting online if you're suprised. Moreover, lots of people take their gaming very seriously.
I dunno these are the same arguments we've had over and over again about this game, mainly from the same people. Some folks just consider it an affront to humanity that many people like this game and feel the need to express it each and every time a thread is created about Bioshock.

Welcome to AT Mr. Rodrigu3.
Agreed, which is why I said what I did. This exact same hyper-critical approach to gaming is evident, to one degree or another, in every game forum I've visited. You have to admit, though, apoppin pontificates with the best of them. :)

 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Originally posted by: tyler811
I have played this for 8 hours straight and I just bought it yesterday. It is such a beautiful game, the graphics are stunning. The game play is very involved. `The only thing that could make this game better would be multi player. there is not a steady stream of things to kill so you have time to explore which is a must to get every thing. This is the best game I have played in years
Playing it now (waited until a holiday break because I knew it would do me in).

Big fan of System Shock 2 here, and Bioshock does not disappoint.

To you people who want some open ended non-linear game, either stop playing games and play real life, or go play a MMORPG without a story where you can play forever and do what you want for all eternity. A game like this tells a specific story, and in order to adhere to that story, some things have to be constrained. If you could leave the city and explore New York or the Moon and do whatever you wanted, there wouldn't be much in the way of a story about Rapture would there?

Games like this are specific stories, not infinite world simulators. I don't know what the ordeal is with people whining about "open ended game play", something I think is just a buzzword people want without actually knowing what it means. I don't see people getting bent out of shape that they can't make their favorite movie play out of order or read a book backwards.

I prefer linear stories myself. non-linear games with no direction or plot are boring just like real life; they leaving you wandering around aimlessly wondering what the point is. Role playing means playing the role of a specific person in a specific role. You are playing the game from the perspective of a particular context, not running around as a virtual extension of yourself in a "real life simulator" doing everything BUT playing the game. I want to play the role of another person with a predefined persona, not assume the anonymous indifferent "the player is the main character" role where the main character's personally is reduced to "..." and yes/no questions. If you want open ended non linear anonymous boring game play go play The Sims or World of Warcraft; then you can explore out or order and aimlessly wander as far as your heart desires.

Do you prefer to buy a book and read that one little story, or would you rather a bunch of blank pages and a pen? If the latter, then go get a compiler and write your own game, just be sure the compiler has a "make my game" and a "do everything" button on it.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,145
3,915
136
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: tyler811
I have played this for 8 hours straight and I just bought it yesterday. It is such a beautiful game, the graphics are stunning. The game play is very involved. `The only thing that could make this game better would be multi player. there is not a steady stream of things to kill so you have time to explore which is a must to get every thing. This is the best game I have played in years
Playing it now (waited until a holiday break because I knew it would do me in).

Big fan of System Shock 2 here, and Bioshock does not disappoint.

To you people who want some open ended non-linear game, either stop playing games and play real life, or go play a MMORPG without a story where you can play forever and do what you want for all eternity. A game like this tells a specific story, and in order to adhere to that story, some things have to be constrained. If you could leave the city and explore New York or the Moon and do whatever you wanted, there wouldn't be much in the way of a story about Rapture would there?

Games like this are specific stories, not infinite world simulators. I don't know what the ordeal is with people whining about "open ended game play", something I think is just a buzzword people want without actually knowing what it means. I don't see people getting bent out of shape that they can't make their favorite movie play out of order or read a book backwards.

I prefer linear stories myself. non-linear games with no direction or plot are boring just like real life; they leaving you wandering around aimlessly wondering what the point is. Role playing means playing the role of a specific person in a specific role. You are playing the game from the perspective of a particular context, not running around as a virtual extension of yourself in a "real life simulator" doing everything BUT playing the game. I want to play the role of another person with a predefined persona, not assume the anonymous indifferent "the player is the main character" role where the main character's personally is reduced to "..." and yes/no questions. If you want open ended non linear anonymous boring game play go play The Sims or World of Warcraft; then you can explore out or order and aimlessly wander as far as your heart desires.

Do you prefer to buy a book and read that one little story, or would you rather a bunch of blank pages and a pen? If the latter, then go get a compiler and write your own game, just be sure the compiler has a "make my game" and a "do everything" button on it.
That's pretty much how I feel about these types of games. I WANT to be held into a story and play a somewhat linear game (that tells the story). It's like an interactive graphic novel, that's the point. If I wanted to wonder around I'd play Oblivion. Sometimes I relax and read a book, sometimes I'll pick up a game and relax and play a book (as per Bioshock).
 

tHa ShIzNiT

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2000
2,321
8
81
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: tyler811
I have played this for 8 hours straight and I just bought it yesterday. It is such a beautiful game, the graphics are stunning. The game play is very involved. `The only thing that could make this game better would be multi player. there is not a steady stream of things to kill so you have time to explore which is a must to get every thing. This is the best game I have played in years
Playing it now (waited until a holiday break because I knew it would do me in).

Big fan of System Shock 2 here, and Bioshock does not disappoint.

To you people who want some open ended non-linear game, either stop playing games and play real life, or go play a MMORPG without a story where you can play forever and do what you want for all eternity. A game like this tells a specific story, and in order to adhere to that story, some things have to be constrained. If you could leave the city and explore New York or the Moon and do whatever you wanted, there wouldn't be much in the way of a story about Rapture would there?

Games like this are specific stories, not infinite world simulators. I don't know what the ordeal is with people whining about "open ended game play", something I think is just a buzzword people want without actually knowing what it means. I don't see people getting bent out of shape that they can't make their favorite movie play out of order or read a book backwards.

I prefer linear stories myself. non-linear games with no direction or plot are boring just like real life; they leaving you wandering around aimlessly wondering what the point is. Role playing means playing the role of a specific person in a specific role. You are playing the game from the perspective of a particular context, not running around as a virtual extension of yourself in a "real life simulator" doing everything BUT playing the game. I want to play the role of another person with a predefined persona, not assume the anonymous indifferent "the player is the main character" role where the main character's personally is reduced to "..." and yes/no questions. If you want open ended non linear anonymous boring game play go play The Sims or World of Warcraft; then you can explore out or order and aimlessly wander as far as your heart desires.

Do you prefer to buy a book and read that one little story, or would you rather a bunch of blank pages and a pen? If the latter, then go get a compiler and write your own game, just be sure the compiler has a "make my game" and a "do everything" button on it.
Excellent post. I feel the same way. This game could not have been done any other way, and the way the story is presented is beautiful, IMO.
 

digiram

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2004
3,979
164
106
Originally posted by: exdeath
Originally posted by: tyler811
I have played this for 8 hours straight and I just bought it yesterday. It is such a beautiful game, the graphics are stunning. The game play is very involved. `The only thing that could make this game better would be multi player. there is not a steady stream of things to kill so you have time to explore which is a must to get every thing. This is the best game I have played in years
Playing it now (waited until a holiday break because I knew it would do me in).

Big fan of System Shock 2 here, and Bioshock does not disappoint.

To you people who want some open ended non-linear game, either stop playing games and play real life, or go play a MMORPG without a story where you can play forever and do what you want for all eternity. A game like this tells a specific story, and in order to adhere to that story, some things have to be constrained. If you could leave the city and explore New York or the Moon and do whatever you wanted, there wouldn't be much in the way of a story about Rapture would there?

Games like this are specific stories, not infinite world simulators. I don't know what the ordeal is with people whining about "open ended game play", something I think is just a buzzword people want without actually knowing what it means. I don't see people getting bent out of shape that they can't make their favorite movie play out of order or read a book backwards.

I prefer linear stories myself. non-linear games with no direction or plot are boring just like real life; they leaving you wandering around aimlessly wondering what the point is. Role playing means playing the role of a specific person in a specific role. You are playing the game from the perspective of a particular context, not running around as a virtual extension of yourself in a "real life simulator" doing everything BUT playing the game. I want to play the role of another person with a predefined persona, not assume the anonymous indifferent "the player is the main character" role where the main character's personally is reduced to "..." and yes/no questions. If you want open ended non linear anonymous boring game play go play The Sims or World of Warcraft; then you can explore out or order and aimlessly wander as far as your heart desires.

Do you prefer to buy a book and read that one little story, or would you rather a bunch of blank pages and a pen? If the latter, then go get a compiler and write your own game, just be sure the compiler has a "make my game" and a "do everything" button on it.
:thumbsup:

Bravo!!!!! Excellent post. Couldn't agree with you more.


 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
81
Some one here also likes STALKER more than Bioshock but I won't name him.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
One thing to consider when offering an intellectual critique of a game: Depending on how your ?review? is worded, it?s natural for the casual reader to assume that he?s being categorized as mentally deficient if he doesn?t agree with your assessment.
i no longer care what posters "read into" my "reviews" :p

it is my opinion of BS and it needs no defense

the casual reader may well remember that a-s-s is the first part in "assuming"

ask for clarification if 'you' [or anyone] feel offended ;)



I'm not quite sure what your intent here is, considering the liberal use of "happy" emotes in your reply. However, you should be aware that my statement wasn't directed at anyone in particular.



i wasn't sure what your intent was either as you posted right after i did... However, you should also be aware that my statements aren't directed at anyone in particular.

FYI: if I were you I would rather remain silent but at least tone down when it's pretty obvious you have no clue where Bioshock's "pretensions" are coming from...
you link like your argument goes nowhere :p
:confused:

at least i *read* Atlas Shrugged and not just skimmed the Cliff 's notes
:roll:
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
I especially like how people who hold System Shock 2 in such high regard bash on Bioshock for being linear... as if you could run to the residential deck in SS2 the moment you had control of your character 5 minutes into the game.... not.

This game has been a giant crack needle for me in terms of wanting something to quench the thirst left by System Shock 2, a thirst that can only be quenched by playing System Shock 2... again... and again. Anyone who proclaims to love SS2 but doesn't like Bioshock really doesn't understand the elements that made SS2 great as much as they would like to think. Because they are all present in Bioshock as well. The only think I really find myself missing is the inventory system; inventory junk and upgrades are handled automatically in Bioshock, presumably to cope with the lack of a mouse cursor for carrying out the various tasks and interacting with inventory items manually.

I'm wondering how people can like one and hate the other when the two games are virtually the same. You bashed the same guy with the same idle animation and catch phrases with a wrench 10,000 times over throughout 5 decks of the Van Braun in System Shock 2. But that didn't stop it from being the great it is. So how can people say SS2 is the greatest game ever and then turn around and criticize Bioshock for doing exactly the same thing only with updated graphics?

It's a welcome change of pace from all the mindless "run and gun" shoot em ups like Halo, Call of Duty, Quake, etc. The next game to quench this thirst will likely be the next Resident Evil.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Back to the open ended vs. linear perspective.

Example of the correlation between linearity and the games ability to hook a player:

I got hooked on Final Fantasy II (IVj) the first time I played it in the first 5-10 mins and couldn't put the controller down until it was over.

Oblivion had me bored before the intro level was finish and I really didn't feel like playing anymore by the time I got outside for the first time.

Comments?
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,377
7
81
Originally posted by: apoppini wasn't sure what your intent was either as you posted right after i did... However, you should also be aware that my statements aren't directed at anyone in particular.
Please don't try to bullsh1t me, apoppin.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: apoppini wasn't sure what your intent was either as you posted right after i did... However, you should also be aware that my statements aren't directed at anyone in particular.
Please don't try to bullsh1t me, apoppin.
then don't try it first on me :p

... and i feel so "exposed" for not loving BS like some of you guys apparently do.
:roll:

:D
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,068
1,240
126
Some one here also likes STALKER more than Bioshock but I won't name him.
That would be me. :thumbsup:

Stalker was able to produce a much better atmosphere than Bioshock, especially when you felt so alone exploring the isolated areas.
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,501
0
0
Originally posted by: exdeath
Back to the open ended vs. linear perspective.

Example of the correlation between linearity and the games ability to hook a player:

I got hooked on Final Fantasy II (IVj) the first time I played it in the first 5-10 mins and couldn't put the controller down until it was over.

Oblivion had me bored before the intro level was finish and I really didn't feel like playing anymore by the time I got outside for the first time.

Comments?
Same here with re: to FFVII (still my favorite of all time) and Oblivion

Open-endedness + incredible story is generally better than linear + incredible story IMO


Oblivion is open-endedness + boring story

Bioshock is linear + boring story that had the added drawback of being a poor ripoff of Ayn Rand/objectivism
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,377
7
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: apoppini wasn't sure what your intent was either as you posted right after i did... However, you should also be aware that my statements aren't directed at anyone in particular.
Please don't try to bullsh1t me, apoppin.
then don't try it first on me :p

... and i feel so "exposed" for not loving BS like some of you guys apparently do.
:roll:

:D
For a person who?s burdened with all human knowledge, and doesn?t care what anyone thinks of him, you sure are sensitive. You said yourself that you aren?t the only poster in this thread who?s inflicted with ?I?m the God of games!? syndrome. If I wanted to address you directly I would have, and it?s just that simple.

Show me where I even came close to saying that I give a damn whether or not you like BioShock, OR tried to bullsh1t you. If this isn't possible, and it isn't, perhaps a bit of introspection is in order.

 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,173
400
126
It's not so much the linearity in the story as much as the linearity in the gameplay and level design that I found annoying. There was no reason they couldn't maintain the same story but make the levels have big, sprawling layouts with multiple ways to reach your goals, which System Shock 2 did to some degree. As I mentioned earlier, the customization choices were also inferior to the wide array of options that SS2 had and they had a minimal impact on the gameplay due to the game being so easy in general.

If you like "interactive movie" type of games, you might want to look at adventure games instead of FPSs. They're rare these days but we still get them every now and then (there was a new Broken Sword game earlier this year, for example). I think even the average ones have better stories than the vast majority of FPSs I have played, with a few notable exceptions.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Stalker was able to produce a much better atmosphere than Bioshock, especially when you felt so alone exploring the isolated areas.
Stalker does have a nice atmosphere. But mainly it is a combination of large zones, some very cool ambient noises and not much else. The game leaves a lot to the imagination, which is cool, but is also the easy way out. You never would have gotten the Big Daddies from the Stalker developers, that kind of atmosphere and NPC interaction/dialogue was really a labor of love from Irrational.

I think Bioshock suffered in some degree because of the ridiculous amount of work they put into AI interactions and scripted scenes. They did it much quicker and effectively in SS2 by just giving all the monsters witty/scary lines and not much else. (See: Midwives). Really, every enemy in SS2 basically just attacks you, but it is the things they say, that you can hear half a level away, that really unnerves you.

Bioshock had a lot of very cool elements, part of me was hoping there would be an area of the map that was completely full of ghosts. Just walking around, talking to each other, completely oblivious of you. Instead I got stuff like the Sculptors section, which freaked the hell out of me. I don't like being freaked out as much as I like being in awe.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
it's nice to see apoppin exposed by everybody else as well :D
I think some of you guys should calm down,nothing wrong if some members disagree(including me) and don't like Bioshock, in the end its only a game and every member here has the right to post their opinion regardless of if they like it or not ,so long has its done without personal attacks or in a non flamming manner.

Anyway I've more or less posted all I'm going to about Bioshock since its not worth more of my time.
I think this year I would have to vote "The Witcher" for game of the year,Stalker was good too but not my GOTY.

Side note:I'm looking forward to Deus EX 3 :).

 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,377
7
81
Originally posted by: CP5670
It's not so much the linearity in the story as much as the linearity in the gameplay and level design that I found annoying. There was no reason they couldn't maintain the same story but make the levels have big, sprawling layouts with multiple ways to reach your goals, which System Shock 2 did to some degree. As I mentioned earlier, the customization choices were also inferior to the wide array of options that SS2 had and they had a minimal impact on the gameplay due to the game being so easy in general.
As powerful as computers have become their are still limitations in what can be done in level design. Also, lets not forget that devs have to shot for balance in order to include lesser machines in the potential buyers pool.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: apoppini wasn't sure what your intent was either as you posted right after i did... However, you should also be aware that my statements aren't directed at anyone in particular.
Please don't try to bullsh1t me, apoppin.
then don't try it first on me :p

... and i feel so "exposed" for not loving BS like some of you guys apparently do.
:roll:

:D
For a person who?s burdened with all human knowledge, and doesn?t care what anyone thinks of him, you sure are sensitive. You said yourself that you aren?t the only poster in this thread who?s inflicted with ?I?m the God of games!? syndrome. If I wanted to address you directly I would have, and it?s just that simple.

Show me where I even came close to saying that I give a damn whether or not you like BioShock, OR tried to bullsh1t you. If this isn't possible, and it isn't, perhaps a bit of introspection is in order.
You are addressing me directly and have been for a large part of this thread

perhaps a more than a 'bit' of introspection is in order for you


specifically:

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
One thing to consider when offering an intellectual critique of a game: Depending on how your ?review? is worded, it?s natural for the casual reader to assume that he?s being categorized as mentally deficient if he doesn?t agree with your assessment.
Y0U are the one who like BS for the "art" and music" and are willing to overlook *everything else* for your silly fixation on your era of artsy superficiality
- i gave my reasons why it is a 7/10 instead of a 10/10 and all you can do is attempt to ridicule :p
:roll:

 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
45
91
Originally posted by: apoppin


specifically:

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
One thing to consider when offering an intellectual critique of a game: Depending on how your ?review? is worded, it?s natural for the casual reader to assume that he?s being categorized as mentally deficient if he doesn?t agree with your assessment.
Y0U are the one who like BS for the "art" and music" and are willing to overlook *everything else* for your silly fixation on your era of artsy superficiality
- i gave my reasons why it is a 7/10 instead of a 10/10 and all you can do is attempt to ridicule :p
:roll:
not to keep this argument going because its beyond retarded at this point, but you were the one that said "some of you are easily impressed" meaning we're dumb for liking the game. i'm not sure there's any other way to take this.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,173
400
126
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: CP5670
It's not so much the linearity in the story as much as the linearity in the gameplay and level design that I found annoying. There was no reason they couldn't maintain the same story but make the levels have big, sprawling layouts with multiple ways to reach your goals, which System Shock 2 did to some degree. As I mentioned earlier, the customization choices were also inferior to the wide array of options that SS2 had and they had a minimal impact on the gameplay due to the game being so easy in general.
As powerful as computers have become their are still limitations in what can be done in level design. Also, lets not forget that devs have to shot for balance in order to include lesser machines in the potential buyers pool.
I don't think this has anything to with hardware requirements, as there are other games that have done it well in the past (for example, Deus Ex, SS2, Far Cry and even Invisible War to some extent). When all the rooms are placed in a completely linear sequence, it makes the whole thing seem a bit unbelievable since no real place would ever be laid out like that. The level design isn't bad by any means, as the rooms were very nicely detailed despite the linearity, but it doesn't compare to the best.
 

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