BioShock 2 PC Requirements, DRM Revealed

[dguy6789]

I already use Steam. I don't want to use more than one of those types of programs, there's no point. Requiring GFWL pretty much means I'm not buying the game.

 

[mindcycle]

Bioshock was one of the most overrated games ever. I never even finished it, I found it rather boring after I got over the awesome environments. Boring weapons, boring enemies, repetitive corridor gameplay. I might grab Bioshock 2 if I see it on special somewhere.

I felt the same way about Bioshock. I think what put me off was the comparisons to System Shock 2, which it was nothing like. I had great expectations going in and none of them were fulfilled.

 

[F1N3ST]

Details? Like I said I've never had a problem personally (not to say others haven't) so for me the benefits of GFWL far outweight the negatives. Although I think GFWL and Steam is kind of redundant, Steam offers pretty much every service that is available in GFWL.

My uhh thread here.. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2039152

I still didn't figure it out, and basically just said fuck it.

Only benefit I got was some Gamerscore from beating H2 when it actually worked.

 

[lupi]

oh great, and it's also tied to GFW. Oh yeah, MS will never drop that POS and leave users of the game stranded.

 

[ShawnD1]

I've personally experienced a few problems with it. Gear of War wouldn't install properly or allow me to save because of some bug in GFWL. I finally figured that one out by essentially removing some GFWL files for the GOW directory and creating an offline profile to save. Major PITA that took several days to figure out. The next game to have issue was Fallout 3. I wanted to purchase one of the DLC packs but every time I tried to login to actually make the purchase I got a GFWL error message. Suffice to say I just quit playing FO3 at that point since it wasn't worth the hassle to me.

I own a 360 and the LIVE service works fine on it. It's quite apparent MS didn't feel like putting the necessary resources into GFWL to make it on par with the 360.

This x 1000. Gears of War deletes my save games, Fallout 3 won't let me load the game unless I can establish a connection with GFWL which happens to be the most unreliable network ever created, and GTA 4 randomly deletes my games. GFWL is a virus.

I haven't really had any problems with install limits.

 

[mindcycle]

This x 1000. Gears of War deletes my save games, Fallout 3 won't let me load the game unless I can establish a connection with GFWL which happens to be the most unreliable network ever created, and GTA 4 randomly deletes my games. GFWL is a virus.

Yeah. I find it hilarious that companies continue to use it given how shitty it turned out to be. GFWL is a beta stage product at best. But then again, so was Vista..

 

[lupi]

I've personally experienced a few problems with it. Gear of War wouldn't install properly or allow me to save because of some bug in GFWL. I finally figured that one out by essentially removing some GFWL files for the GOW directory and creating an offline profile to save. Major PITA that took several days to figure out. The next game to have issue was Fallout 3. I wanted to purchase one of the DLC packs but every time I tried to login to actually make the purchase I got a GFWL error message. Suffice to say I just quit playing FO3 at that point since it wasn't worth the hassle to me.

I own a 360 and the LIVE service works fine on it. It's quite apparent MS didn't feel like putting the necessary resources into GFWL to make it on par with the 360.

that's cause they make people with a 360 pay to go online and when they attempted that on the PC most just laughed and went elsewhere.

 

[mindcycle]

that's cause they make people with a 360 pay to go online and when they attempted that on the PC most just laughed and went elsewhere.

Very true. It's a shame companies still use it. I mean shouldn't they have realized by now how much of a POS is it? I don't get it. IMO, there is absolutely no value added by including GFWL, and forcing you to install it just to run the game is ridiculous. 100% bloatware.

 

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

will not recieve a buy from me as long as an install limit is present

 

[Elcs]

Not a big fan of GFWL but it wouldnt put me off buying a game.

Dawn of War 2: It was a bit awkward and I found it required me to be signed in to play a single player skirmish. That was a kick in the teeth when my internet was down for a few days. It also wiped my stats on The Last Stand once. Lost my level 15 Space Marine.

Street Fighter IV: Was saying my CD Key was invalid despite the fact I bought it off Steam in the sale.

 

[zerocool84]

Bioshock was one of the most overrated games ever. I never even finished it, I found it rather boring after I got over the awesome environments. Boring weapons, boring enemies, repetitive corridor gameplay. I might grab Bioshock 2 if I see it on special somewhere.

Yea it really wasn't anything special. The art style was cool but everything else was meh. I did finish it but it never really kept my interest. I'll get this when it's really cheap in a year or so.

 

[Rezident]

I don't know what a 15 install limit is really going to accomplish. It is definitely better than 3, but the game will still be cracked so i'm not sure what the point is. Maybe i'm missing something here..

Besides that, the fact that it requires GFWL automatically makes this a no-buy for me. No way I would willingly put myself through that torture again.

Oh no! That could actually be a deal-breaker. I too have suffered mercilessly at the hand of GFWL. I am genuinely baffled how Microsoft simply cannot get the piece of software to 'just work'. Utterly bizarre.

GFWL has never - ever - not even once, updated itself successfully in-game for me. I've tried many many times during several different games, it has failed each and every time. Fail. Game over, GFWL is dead to me.

 

[Rezident]

I agree about the GFWL. It's a super negative for me in any buying decision. So far, I have been able to dump it after setting up the few enjoyable games that were saddled with the monstrosity.

I sure wish the game distributers would move to a model where they only inflict their troublesome DRM for the first 6 months or year after release, and drop it to something more reasonable after the first blush of the early adopters has been run through.

How do you get rid of GFWL after it's set up? I am still plagued by it every time I want to play any of the games that are infected with it, even Single Player.

 

[Rezident]

Can people explain to me the problem with GFWL? I've always found it super reliable and have never had a problem with it. It's awesome for keeping lists of "friends" for games like DoWII so you can always have a match with someone you have played before and who you know won't drop on you or anything. I also like the achievement thing a lot.

I'm fairly sure most GFWL haters are either just anti-MS or resent it because it looks too XBox-like.

No GA it's because it does not work properly for people. When I load up a game, first I am stopped by it and required (not given the option) to sign in to GFWL. Even if I only want to play GTA 4, by myself, I MUST sign in to GFWL. Why? What benefit is there to wasting my time to make me sign in to something that is completely useless to playing offline in Single Player mode?

If this works (it usually does but not always), GFWL will then often tell me that there is an update for GFWL, do you want to update? No I want to play a game. But ok I agree to update in the (false) hope that it will make things better (it never has here).

So GFWL begins updating (allegedly). After 5 minutes or so of not playing the game, GFWL will either inform me that the update was not successful, or just hang there doing nothing useful, wasting my precious time. Now I can be patient, but 'beware the fury of a patient man'.

My time is extremely important to me, I don't get much spare time to game these days, and the whole time I could have been playing has been totally wasted by GFWL which simply does not work properly. This is incredibly frustrating (imagine all sorts of angry and frustrated-looking smilies here).

To date GFWL has never once managed to update itself successfully here, during any game on a high-spec system with fast broadband that works for my other apps and games.

Does GFWL make my gaming better or worse? Well, it has not added anything beneficial yet. Sometimes it does work but this offers me nothing new above a normal game without the hassle, and, in fact, just wastes a few more precious moments of time, when I wanted to be gaming, not waiting to see if I'm allowed to play a game I paid for or not.

Regularly, GFWL does not work, it just wastes time that could be spent gaming. The result is that GFWL has diminished my overall gaming experience in each and every game that it has been tied to - and it is tied to them - there's no option, you are forced to try and use it, and if and when it fails, so does your the user's enjoyment. Not giving users the option to turn it off is another disadvantage. It's like the Rock Star Social Club, only more buggy.

The fact that we're not talking about some mickey mouse little start-up company here, but that it's made my Microsoft, is truly bizarre. I simply cannot understand it.

Re: MS support, the calls I have made were answered by what sounded like Indian people who were extremely helpful and very knowledgeable, I have no problem with them. They have always tried to be very helpful and actually sound like they know what they're talking about. They have helped me fix several very technical problems, but so far, even they cannot get GFWL to 'just work'.

Result: GFWL - Fail.

 

[blckgrffn]

I too have been afflicted by GFWL. I had hoped to enjoy the DLC for FO3.

*hoped to*

Like Rezident, I realized that I was spending too much time fighting GFWL and NOT PLAYING FO3. It was time to move on. At least I tried to get it working before plunking down any money.

I suppose I could pick them up now that they are available on retail, but I've already moved on and need to beat Mass Effect before the sequel finds its way into my home...

 

[ZzZGuy]

I had this attitude a few years ago, but these days the odds of online activation getting in the way are miniscule. Everyone has a reliable and fast internet connection and just about every piece of software on your computer uses the internet in some way or another.

You don't speak for me. I don't care if everyone else has no issues with this DRM, I do. And I don't care if you don't understand because of a lack of imagination.

 

[VashHT]

I'll be buying this, I really enjoyed the first one but I hope they fixed the animations for enemies in this one. The animations for the splicers were so choppy int he first one it made it feel like you were playing at like 15fps even if you were getting over 100.

As for GFWL, I'd prefer they didn't use it, but personally I have not had any problems with it. Worked fine for me with FO3 and DoW2 and even worked fine in some betas I played. I would rather they not use it since it's totally unnecessary but I'm not gonna pass up a game I want because of it.

 

[blurredvision]

DRM does accomplish really nothing...but is it really that big of a nuisance to honest people?

I didn't read past this post, so I don't know what kind of arguments are in this thread. However, I just wanted to comment that I think along the same lines as you, that DRM has never hurt me in the slightest. However, I don't mind those who take the hard stance against any and all DRM and complain about it endlessly no matter how intrusive or not. If not for those guys, there's no telling how hard these companies would be walking over PC gamers by now. It's because of these loud complainers that companies are somewhat backing off a bit on some of the harsher DRM strategies.

 

[Golgatha]

Very true. It's a shame companies still use it. I mean shouldn't they have realized by now how much of a POS is it? I don't get it. IMO, there is absolutely no value added by including GFWL, and forcing you to install it just to run the game is ridiculous. 100% bloatware.

Yea, I actually wish GFWL stayed as a paid service, that way it was always optional. Publishers only use it because they want to offer paid DLC over a secure system. If it weren't for DLC, there would be no incentive to have GFWL installed for the publisher. As a consumer, it is pure bloatware that is, as others have already said, a beta product at best.

 

[Golgatha]

I've gotta say, the only thing that irks me about a 15 install limit, is that this game might possibly not be installable 10 years from now due to the need for Online activation. I'm willing to give a pass on this one since the publisher did remove the Online activation from the original Bioshock around 2-3 years out.

 

[Regs]

I don't understand why we have to have GFWL to save files. I really don't know why we have GFWL period.

 

[xCxStylex]

I don't either, I absolutely hate GFWL. It's cumbersome, retarded, and serves no point to the end user. The only two GFWL games I have are Crysis and SF4. Thankfully, I didn't bother signing up or playing multiplayer for Crysis, but SF4 has been an annoying PITA.

The 15 limit install is like an insulting tax or a slap on the face in that I feel like they limit it just because they can. I can't see anyone installing something 15 times, but I've definitely installed TF2 at least 7 times, 5 of which are active installations. <3 steam, f**k GFWL and securom

I don't understand why we have to have GFWL to save files. I really don't know why we have GFWL period.

 

[zinfamous]

oh, so is GFWL that thing that pops up when I try to load Dirt2 through Steam and it bitches about me for having to register or open some account with Windows thingy if I want to save?

fuck that. the game was free, anyway.

 

[Raduque]

Ugh, GFWL is garbage. I love me some Xbox Live, but gfwl... just no.

I had tons of problems with it in DoWII, Fallout3, Universe at War Earth Assault. It constantly wants to update, completely locks out the keyboard when it tries, takes a year and a half to do nothing, and to top it off, in widescreen the buttons don't line up with the mouse cursor - you have to click above or below any part to do anything in it in fullscreen 16:10.

For those having problems with DLC and Fallout3, you can download the DLC in the stand-alone GFWL marketplace app, then pull them out of the random folder, toss them in the Fallout3 folder and add them into the launcher (or use FOMM).

 

[Maximilian]

Ugh GFWL and securom? What a load of horse shit.

Why does the steam one even need these!? Pfft fuck it i wasent that keen on the first one, it was alright, never played it again though. After my initial playthrough it joined the "meh" shelf along with fear and oblivion.