With the rising price of gas Biodeisel should become a more viable option. Anyone using it? Any thoughts on this as an alternative to imported oil. Should I switch to a deisel next time for my truck. It's not available here in the northeast.
Biodeisel?
- Thread starter mattpegher
- Start date
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
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The question is bio-deisel from what plant?----I hope your answer is not from French fry waste oil.
Well maybe from soy-beans----or a fossil fuel like coal----I agree that this is needed----but we simply have not put the research into it. And if we convert or our corn acrerage into soy beans, what is that going to do to our meat prices?
But on the bright side---a deisel engine is far more energy efficent than a gasoline engine.---and corn to ethanol is just not energy efficent.
Well maybe from soy-beans----or a fossil fuel like coal----I agree that this is needed----but we simply have not put the research into it. And if we convert or our corn acrerage into soy beans, what is that going to do to our meat prices?
But on the bright side---a deisel engine is far more energy efficent than a gasoline engine.---and corn to ethanol is just not energy efficent.
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 7,512
- 2
- 81
Is soy the best plant for oil? I've handled a soy bean before and it didn't seem very oily to me. On the other hand, an olive has lots of oil.
Of course, I mean growing soy (i think) for production of commercial biodeisel. I know Willie Nelson has been pushing it. I just haven't seen any complete analysis of cost efficencies, production capacity projections or effects on other agricultural production. It seems feasable but I'm not sure if the only hinderance is pressure from big oil companies or if there are more practical constraints.
I'm all for it. I don't currently use it because I don't have a car but when I do finally plunk down the change for one it's going to be a diesel. It's a good thing there are a few fill-up stations around Seattle.
Obviously we aren't going to be running everything off of biodiesel but it's a hell of a lot better supplement to our fuel supply than ethanol is. If it turns out that algae in smokestacks is a fairly viable source for biodiesel, I'm sure biodiesel usage would grow quite a bit.
Obviously we aren't going to be running everything off of biodiesel but it's a hell of a lot better supplement to our fuel supply than ethanol is. If it turns out that algae in smokestacks is a fairly viable source for biodiesel, I'm sure biodiesel usage would grow quite a bit.
I know here in Tennessee where there grow a ton of soybeans the democratic senate canidate (Harold Ford Jr) had some commercials where he was pushing soybeans for biodeisel. Unfortunately this just means that senators from different parts of the countrty will be debating whether to use corn/soy/switchgrass/etc based on what will get their regions the most government subsidies, not what is actually best for consumers.
That was a great article. Hopefully more people will realize biodiesel is the way to go to start weening ourselves off foreign oil. I just hope they get that gelling issue (biodiesel turns to gel under 40 degrees) worked out.
Unfortunately, the pickings for cars are weak.
A couple of oil-burners from VW but their best seller (Jetta) is on furlough until next year. According to the dealer the 08 Jetta will average over 40/40, which shouldn't be a hard target considering the 06 was already getting just short of 40 in mixed driving.
But VW will likely have diesel options in most US cars by 2008 all the way up to a 550 lb-ft torque Touareg which should be useful for pulling up tree stumps in between trips to the mall.
If they put a diesel in the Eos the wife might get one.
Assuming the market is receptive, diesels may even trickle back into Audi.
The other option is MB . . . but I think their cheapest option starts at 50k.
Allegedly Honda has some hot diesel engines but they probably won't market in the US until 2008 or beyond.
A couple of oil-burners from VW but their best seller (Jetta) is on furlough until next year. According to the dealer the 08 Jetta will average over 40/40, which shouldn't be a hard target considering the 06 was already getting just short of 40 in mixed driving.
But VW will likely have diesel options in most US cars by 2008 all the way up to a 550 lb-ft torque Touareg which should be useful for pulling up tree stumps in between trips to the mall.
If they put a diesel in the Eos the wife might get one.
Assuming the market is receptive, diesels may even trickle back into Audi.
The other option is MB . . . but I think their cheapest option starts at 50k.
Allegedly Honda has some hot diesel engines but they probably won't market in the US until 2008 or beyond.
Popular Science did a breakdown about 3 issues ago about cost analysis, whats need for production, etc off all the latests fuel sources, hyrdo cell ,bio, methane etc.... it showed that SOO much bio product was needed to make bio diesel and bio fuels that it really isnt benificial, especially,= when you consider equpiment used to harvest cultivate etc..... i dont have a the numbers off hand from the article, but the bushels needed to create just one gallon were redicilous...
but im all for something, like hyrdogen fuel cell, seems to be truely the best route, espeically from what i read from that article, i will have to look for it and get some numbers though....
but im all for something, like hyrdogen fuel cell, seems to be truely the best route, espeically from what i read from that article, i will have to look for it and get some numbers though....
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
I didn't read the article. But, there's a huge difference between bio-diesel and hydrogen fuel cells:
Bio-diesel: source of energy
hydrogen fuel cells: carrier for energy. Essentially nothing more than a new type of battery for storing energy to be used later. It needs to be "charged" somehow, and that's going to require some sort of "fuel." (energy source - wind, solar, fossil fuel, nuclear, or tidal.)
^^Bingo.
Akin to the conflation of Saddam w/ 9-11, Bush has effectively misinformed the public.
It's hard to believe Popular Science would lump the issues of bioethanol together with biodiesel. About the only thing they have in common is that retards advocate making large-scale ethanol out of corn and their imbecile cousins talk about billions of gallons of biodiesel from McDonalds' waste oil.
Biodiesel has relatively minor technologic and infrastructure issues compared to bioethanol. That doesn't mean bioethanol has no future but it certainly shouldn't be considered in the same league as biodiesel. In truth, what you want (as mentioned in the UNH article) is multiple options. But you have to pretty uninformed to include FCVs in anything but a plan for the distant future . . .
1) Properly maintain current vehicles . . . particularly tire inflation
2) drive like gas is expensive . . . distance, frequency, manner
3) drive more efficient vehicles
4) drive more diesel vehicles
5) drive more hybrids that actually work
Those 5 items would lead to instant benefits to individual consumers, thrill the tree huggers, politicians could take credit while doing nothing, and we could simultaneously give a middle finger to Hugo, Putin, and the sand tyrants with oil.
As for hydrogen, we actually need a comparable approach. We have to improve domestic electricity usage (use less and use that smaller amount more efficiently). THEN the surplus energy could be directed towards producing hydrogen.
But that's a minor issue compared to establishing a distribution network for hydrogen . . . granted that might not be insurmountable given any power plant with surplus electricity could generate it. So it's not like gasoline where we are so dependent on a limited number of refineries.
But the technology for the vehicles is going to be orders of magnitude more difficult. Thanks goodness for Honda . . .
Akin to the conflation of Saddam w/ 9-11, Bush has effectively misinformed the public.
It's hard to believe Popular Science would lump the issues of bioethanol together with biodiesel. About the only thing they have in common is that retards advocate making large-scale ethanol out of corn and their imbecile cousins talk about billions of gallons of biodiesel from McDonalds' waste oil.
Biodiesel has relatively minor technologic and infrastructure issues compared to bioethanol. That doesn't mean bioethanol has no future but it certainly shouldn't be considered in the same league as biodiesel. In truth, what you want (as mentioned in the UNH article) is multiple options. But you have to pretty uninformed to include FCVs in anything but a plan for the distant future . . .
1) Properly maintain current vehicles . . . particularly tire inflation
2) drive like gas is expensive . . . distance, frequency, manner
3) drive more efficient vehicles
4) drive more diesel vehicles
5) drive more hybrids that actually work
Those 5 items would lead to instant benefits to individual consumers, thrill the tree huggers, politicians could take credit while doing nothing, and we could simultaneously give a middle finger to Hugo, Putin, and the sand tyrants with oil.
As for hydrogen, we actually need a comparable approach. We have to improve domestic electricity usage (use less and use that smaller amount more efficiently). THEN the surplus energy could be directed towards producing hydrogen.
But that's a minor issue compared to establishing a distribution network for hydrogen . . . granted that might not be insurmountable given any power plant with surplus electricity could generate it. So it's not like gasoline where we are so dependent on a limited number of refineries.
But the technology for the vehicles is going to be orders of magnitude more difficult. Thanks goodness for Honda . . .
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
A friend/coworker of mine uses it. He set up a pick up with 2 restaurants once every 3 or 4 weeks and they put all of the used oil in drums. He gets it for free, since companies normally charge for disposal, so its a great deal for the restaurant. He takes it home, filters it, adds octane and a few other chemicals, and his final product costs him about 40 CENTS/GAL! I've ridden in his truck (a 3/4 ton F250 turbo diesel) and I'll tell ya...other than the truck smelling like french fries when it burns (LOL) you would never know the difference. No difference in power, etc.
Im thinking of getting a turbo Jetta and buying my "fuel" from him for 60 cents/gal
Im thinking of getting a turbo Jetta and buying my "fuel" from him for 60 cents/gal
Severian
Senior member
- Oct 30, 2004
- 808
- 0
- 76
No. It can only substitute for petro-diesel in diesel engines. However, it can also be used in place of No. 2 home heating oil, so there's more interest here in the northeastern US.
Biodiesel, which is basically vegetable oil that's been transesterized, is a fairly powerful solvent, so some gaskets and seals in engines and furnaces may degrade with its use. It also mobilizes the crud inside your petro-fuel tank, which can shotgun the inline filters, so if you convert, you probably will need to replace a few filters in the first months until the tank is clean.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
- Mar 1, 2005
- 7,925
- 1
- 81
With the US now using exclusively low-sulfur diesel, I'd imagine more automakers will introduce diesel models. It seems like in this part of the world diesels have a reputation for being loud and smelly, which is a shame, because they don't necessarily have to be. I believe newer designs are supposed to be relatively quiet, and low-sulfur fuel doesn't have the rotten egg smell that cars running from ditry diesel do.
IMHO biodiesel is our best option for an alternative fuel. Algae farms seem like they'd be the best way to produce biodiesel on a large scale. Another way to supplement our biofuel supply as well as get rid of our waste is TCP. IIRC the biofuel produced is currently slightly more expensive per barrel than gasoline. As the technology is improved, though, efficiency will surely increase. I think CWT also has to pay for the biomass used for TCP. If they were able to get the biomass for free or at a very low price, the cost effectiveness would only get better.
IMHO biodiesel is our best option for an alternative fuel. Algae farms seem like they'd be the best way to produce biodiesel on a large scale. Another way to supplement our biofuel supply as well as get rid of our waste is TCP. IIRC the biofuel produced is currently slightly more expensive per barrel than gasoline. As the technology is improved, though, efficiency will surely increase. I think CWT also has to pay for the biomass used for TCP. If they were able to get the biomass for free or at a very low price, the cost effectiveness would only get better.
The Big 2.5 will all have diesel trucks on the road by 2008. But the real onslaught will be when Honda brings their small diesels to market. BMW actually has a pretty nice 3.0 but they are so image conscious that I doubt they will bring it over any time soon.
All of you diesel fanbois need to pull your heads out of the tailpipe. Burning diesel or biodiesel still produces lots of particulate matter (soot) that clogs our lungs and causes cancer.
At the same time that 4-cycle engines are burning super clean, with catalytic convertors and fuel injection, the diesel is still basically unregulated, with no smog inspections or pollution control devices.
I sure hope more diesel autos do not come to California. Friends don't let friends drive diesel.
http://uspirg.org/uspirgnewsroom.asp?id2=8117&id3=USPIRGnewsroom
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/12/23/soot.climate.ap/index.html
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/stopthesoot/
At the same time that 4-cycle engines are burning super clean, with catalytic convertors and fuel injection, the diesel is still basically unregulated, with no smog inspections or pollution control devices.
I sure hope more diesel autos do not come to California. Friends don't let friends drive diesel.
http://uspirg.org/uspirgnewsroom.asp?id2=8117&id3=USPIRGnewsroom
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/12/23/soot.climate.ap/index.html
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/stopthesoot/
The current form of diesel doesn't allow the use of catalytic converters and other emissions-reducing equipment. However, we're getting ultra low sulfur diesel this fall, which will allow diesel cars to be some of the cleanest vehicles on the road. These cars will be able to exceed California emissions' standards.
Diesels can use exhaust filters to remove some of the soot, which are already in use in Europe, but of course they are not used here because of the powerful diesel and trucking lobby.
Its funny how clean diesel is always just around the corner-but never gets here.
I doubt these diesels will be able to meet California emissions standards in the future, but they can meet the present standards-because there aren't any.
Regular 4-cycle autos have had to undergo costly smog checks for years, removed the lead from the gas, MTBE , ethanol, etc.. and diesels have done nothing to clean up nor do they have smog checks-they're exempt.
Actually they can't now meet the new standard but they will by 2008 both Mercedes 'which has an engine right now that meets the new standard' and Volkswagon will realease one by 2008 as the start of it.
When you factor in that hybrid actually adds a lot more to a vehicle the deisel from simply adding particulate filters comes out ahead, on up front cost over hybrid
Diesel hybrid even much more so
When you factor in that hybrid actually adds a lot more to a vehicle the deisel from simply adding particulate filters comes out ahead, on up front cost over hybrid
Diesel hybrid even much more so
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