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Bin Laden's Limo driver walks
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palehorse
Lifer
They were not released, or found innocent. They were both sent back to gitmo to wait patiently for a new trial.
reading comprehension ftw!
Hey, I've been down there. Does that make my "word" more relevant? probably not, since it contradicts your preconceived notions of what goes on there...right?
Just as you dismiss my personal testimony outright, I do the same with the stories told by released detainees and Navy lawyers. see how that works?
Then why "U.S. Cites Exception in Torture Ban" ?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...2/AR2006030202054.html
And then there is the FBI "FBI Agents Allege Abuse of Detainees at Guantanamo Bay"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../A14936-2004Dec20.html
And like has been posted before describe how some of it is done. "FBI files detail Guantánamo torture tactics"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guan...ory/0,,1981955,00.html
And if you realy want to watch something instead of reading then there is Channel4's excelent documentary about gitmo. Hightly recomend the show where they reconstruct the enviroment in gitmo, but are only limited to methoods that the US gov has revealed they use.
http://www.channel4.com/news/m...s/T/torture/cases.html
http://video.google.com/videop...d=-1403370850111668271
But, why require more proof than that? its not like the US gov has provided any proof of why they are holding all those people for so long and if you compare the two you got alot more solid case of there is torture in gitmo than for they are dangerous people.
Now imagine that:roll:
edit,
and in you case you missed this good solid information of torture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...ure_and_prisoner_abuse
If you want to go deep then I suggest you read the whole article about this.
"Some interrogators involved in this incident were sent to Iraq and were assigned to the now infamous Abu Ghraib prison."
The US sure does take their "no torture" stance seriously:frown:
JD50
Lifer
My point is that Aimster thinks that he can say whatever he wants to and everyone else needs to come up with proof to debunk his opinion.
And yes if you accuse someone of doing something it is up to the accuser to prove it. Obviously I know the retarded point that you are trying to make.
palehorse
Lifer
Actually, using analogous examples (Iran and WMD's, Aimster punching his wife, etc), that is exactly the point JD is trying to make to Aimster!
So yes, you've missed his entire point. In this case, the onus was on Aimster to provide proof of his allegations of torture at gitmo, but Aimster kept insisting that we prove that it is NOT occurring. Both Aimster and yourself kept missing the point...
The point is that it all began with the proclaimation that there is no torture in gitmo when in fact there is lots and lots of evidence that supports torture in gitmo. Can you realy say that there is no torture in gitmo? and if you still want to say that as a fact, do you have anything to back it up?
The point is that Aimster has provided lots of evidence for torture in gitmo but you all demand something concrete. This is sortof like Evolution vs Creationism debate. There is huge amount of evidence behind evolution while creationism is just wishful thinking and with nothing to back it up.
palehorse
Lifer
you're wrong. re-read the thread and you'll see that the actual order of events has Eskimospy being the first to make an assertion that there IS torture at Gitmo. Then, after challenging him to produce evidence or proof, Aimster responded by saying "no, you have to prove there isn't." To which JD and I responded with "the onus is on the accuser" etc etc. Aimster has since failed to produce a single shred of proof - not one link - to back up his assertions of torture in Gitmo. (other posters later did so, but only after Aimster posted a dozen times saying that the onus was on us to prove that there isnt).
Try to keep up.
I do, in fact, have first-hand knowledge of the goings-on in Gitmo. (I've been there). My first-hand experiences there lead me to believe that nobody in Gitmo is being tortured.
show me a single link, or shred of evidence, that Aimster has posted on the subject.
You're absolutely correct, and I consider the accusations of torture at Gitmo to be the "creationism" of this debate.
I posted a direct link from cbnews.com.
You all have posted NOTHING.
There is a line between hard evidence and no evidence at all.
The facts are Iran hasn't given anyone WMD. Nobody has discussed it. Nobody has brought it up. It isn't even a topic. Therefore it is safe beyond any shred of evidence to conclude Iran has not given anyone WMD.
Hell why was that even brought up.? That statement alone doesn't even link me to being a "terrorist supporter". but unfortunately that is all you right-wing lunatic nut-cases have on me. Sucks to be YOU.
If you want to play JD50's first semester law-school student b.s argument way, then everything in this world is not a FACT. There is always a "possibility that you cannot prove". If that is how the court systems worked for finding out the truth then we would all be living in 9-11 conspiracy theory world.
You all have posted NOTHING.
There is a line between hard evidence and no evidence at all.
The facts are Iran hasn't given anyone WMD. Nobody has discussed it. Nobody has brought it up. It isn't even a topic. Therefore it is safe beyond any shred of evidence to conclude Iran has not given anyone WMD.
Hell why was that even brought up.? That statement alone doesn't even link me to being a "terrorist supporter". but unfortunately that is all you right-wing lunatic nut-cases have on me. Sucks to be YOU.
If you want to play JD50's first semester law-school student b.s argument way, then everything in this world is not a FACT. There is always a "possibility that you cannot prove". If that is how the court systems worked for finding out the truth then we would all be living in 9-11 conspiracy theory world.
palehorse74,
What aimster posted and
1. I might have the order wrong but it peaked my interest when I think you posted that there is no torture in gitmo as a fact.
2. Your first hand knowledge is just not enough on the grand scale of things and you should know that.
3. If no torture is the evolution part, then what evidence do you have that can be independantly verified?
What aimster posted and
1. I might have the order wrong but it peaked my interest when I think you posted that there is no torture in gitmo as a fact.
2. Your first hand knowledge is just not enough on the grand scale of things and you should know that.
3. If no torture is the evolution part, then what evidence do you have that can be independantly verified?
palehorse
Lifer
Just as you are willing to dismiss my first-hand testimony concerning gitmo, I can do the same with regards to any other accounts reported in the media. Until you provide first-hand testimony, under oath, of such acts being committed, they remain "hearsay." Or, better yet, obtain some photos or video of torture taking place at Gitmo. (You'll notice that I do not argue the fact that humiliation and torture took place at Abu Ghraib? Why? because it has been proven).
As for #3, once again, you are asking us to prove that something DIDNT happen, even after it's been agreed that you've not proven anything DID happen. That's not how it works.
tomywishbone
Golden Member
Guys please, slow down. A few points:
Of course there's touture at Gitmo. If not, why is it there?
OBL's limo guy, is just some stupid chump. Anyone with any grasp on reality, would let him go home, and return to his camel herd.
''Enemy combatant" 😀:beer::laugh: Please tell me you're kidding.
Lastly... the guys who pulled off 9/11... they're dead.
In 1994... perhaps 1995, a guy broke into my house in Venice. My friend shot him and killed him. I'm pretty sure the deal is done. Maybe I should track down his entire family and murder them... wait... my brain still works... perhaps I'lll let the entire thing die.
xoxo
Tommy
Of course there's touture at Gitmo. If not, why is it there?
OBL's limo guy, is just some stupid chump. Anyone with any grasp on reality, would let him go home, and return to his camel herd.
''Enemy combatant" 😀:beer::laugh: Please tell me you're kidding.
Lastly... the guys who pulled off 9/11... they're dead.
In 1994... perhaps 1995, a guy broke into my house in Venice. My friend shot him and killed him. I'm pretty sure the deal is done. Maybe I should track down his entire family and murder them... wait... my brain still works... perhaps I'lll let the entire thing die.
xoxo
Tommy
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