Bill Starr 5x5 workout

[darkdiablo]

ROUTINE A:
MONHEAVY)
SQUATS:5X5
DEADS:5X5
BENCH:5X5
INCL DB:2X20
CALF:3X30

WEDLIGHT)
SQUAT80% OF HVY DAY)5X5
GOOD MORNING:4X8
BB INCL:5X5
PULLOVER:2X20
BB CURL:2X20

FRIMEDIUM)
BENCH:4X8,2X2
SQUAT:90% OF HVY DAY)5X5
SHRUG:5X5
O.H.P:5X5
CHINS:4XMAX

Heres the other one:
ROUTINE B:
MONDAYHEAVY)
SQUATS:5X5
BENT ROW:5X5
BENCH:5X5
INCL DB:2X20
CALF:3X30

WEDLIGHT):
SQUAT80% OF HVY DAY)5X5
SLDL:4X8
O.H.P:3X5, 2X3
DIPS:4XMAX(@20REPS, ADD WT.)
BB CURL:2X15

FRIMEDIUM):
SQUAT:3X5, 2X3(5S @90% OF HVY DAY)
HIGH PULL:5X5
BB INCL:5X5, 1X8(BACK-OF)
CG BENCH:3X12
CHINS:4XMAX

increase weights by 5 for upper body, and 10 for lower body per 2 week cycle

what u guys think?

 

[BigPoppa]

Whats your lifting history, where are your numbers currently at?

May recommend Starting Strength for a beginner. With this program as presented, would probably recommend upping weights 5/10lb weekly, until you can no longer do so.

 

[brikis98]

What are your goals? What is your weight lifting experience & numbers? Where did you get this routine from? It looks a lot more complicated than the usual Bill Starr 5x5 routines I've seen...

 

[SociallyChallenged]

What? A 5x5 of both squats and deadlifts on the same day? No. That's a terrible idea. If you can still make gains on a much simpler program, you should stick with that until you start to slow down or plateau.

 

[darkdiablo]

i been lifting for 1 yr, started with 5x3 rip program for 2 month, then shieko for 10 month. max on squat, bench, deadlift are 265,185,335. I just wanna try something different than shieko cycle. the 5x5 on squats and deadlifts, but u get a light day and medium day for rest. the 5x5 means, u start light say 135x5, then 175x5, then 225 x 5... and so on till the last set u use ur max to complete the reps.

my goal is to get stronger

 

[Unmoosical]

As brikis noted this is definitely different than the normal Bill Star 5x5 so you should probably make a mental note that this is someone's modified version of his program. You say you want to get stronger, is there any reason you don't want to go back to the Starting Strength program? Or perhaps Stronglifts?

Also, generally 5x5 is regarded as using the same weight for all 5 sets. I don't exactly know why you would continue to build the weight up each set, aside from warm-up sets. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself can explain what benefit, if any, this would have. My thought is that you're better off going back to SS.

Lastly, 5x5s for deadlifts?!?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: darkdiablo
i been lifting for 1 yr, started with 5x3 rip program for 2 month, then shieko for 10 month. max on squat, bench, deadlift are 265,185,335. I just wanna try something different than shieko cycle. the 5x5 on squats and deadlifts, but u get a light day and medium day for rest. the 5x5 means, u start light say 135x5, then 175x5, then 225 x 5... and so on till the last set u use ur max to complete the reps.

my goal is to get stronger

For your numbers to be useful, it would also help to know your height and bodyweight.

Are you still able to linearly increase the weight on your lifts (almost) every workout (even by 1lb)? Or is it more like once a week now? If it's the former, you should still be on a beginner strength training routine. If it's the latter, you need an intermediate routine. BTW, there is no shame in being a "beginner" - in fact, you should want to be on a beginner routine for as long as you possibly can, as is this is the time when you can make the biggest/quickest gains and can use the simplest routines.

Probably the best beginner routine for building strength is the one you (for whatever reason) quit: that's the routine in Starting Strength. The similar Stronglifts 5x5 is also a good choice. If you're an intermediate, then I'd recommend doing the actual Bill Starr 5x5 routine or the Texas Method. I'm not sure where you got the routine you posted above, but it seems to have more volume and complexity than is probably necessary.

Originally posted by: Unmoosical
Also, generally 5x5 is regarded as using the same weight for all 5 sets. I don't exactly know why you would continue to build the weight up each set, aside from warm-up sets. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself can explain what benefit, if any, this would have.

If you use the same weight each set, you are doing "sets across". If you increase the weight each set, you are doing "ascending sets". In general, sets across only work in the earlier stages of training. As you get stronger, doing sets across with heavier weights (especially 5x5) several times per week will be too much volume to recover from. Therefore, many intermediate and advanced programs use ramping sets. For example, in the Bill Starr 5x5 routine, the first couple sets are effectively warm-up, the next couple are more like work sets, and the last set is usually an attempt to set a new 5RM. Of course, some intermediate programs do use sets across, but it's typically kept to a minimum. For example, The Texas Method does a 5x5 sets across "volume day" once a week, a 3x3 a second day, and an attempt at a new single/double/triple PR the third day.

 

[crt1530]

Sheiko routines are for people who would be happy with 5lb per month gains. You should just go back to the SS Novice program and start eating more food if your primary goal is to increase your strength.

 

[KingGheedora]

Originally posted by: Unmoosical
As brikis noted this is definitely different than the normal Bill Star 5x5 so you should probably make a mental note that this is someone's modified version of his program. You say you want to get stronger, is there any reason you don't want to go back to the Starting Strength program? Or perhaps Stronglifts?

Also, generally 5x5 is regarded as using the same weight for all 5 sets. I don't exactly know why you would continue to build the weight up each set, aside from warm-up sets. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself can explain what benefit, if any, this would have. My thought is that you're better off going back to SS.

Lastly, 5x5s for deadlifts?!?

Apparently I read StrongLift's guide wrong, and I have been doing 5 sets of 5 reps for deadlifts. Why is this bad? Should I be doing more weight and decreasing to 5 sets of 1 rep? Doing 1 rep sets seems kind of odd for some reason.

 

[katank]

Originally posted by: KingGheedora
Apparently I read StrongLift's guide wrong, and I have been doing 5 sets of 5 reps for deadlifts. Why is this bad? Should I be doing more weight and decreasing to 5 sets of 1 rep? Doing 1 rep sets seems kind of odd for some reason.

Do one set of 5 reps, it's quite sufficient.

Main problem is the amount of leg work on days with both squats and DLs otherwise. Your legs are already sufficiently trashed from max effort 5x5 squats to be able to do much with 5x5 DLs.

 

[conorvansmack]

At relatively light weights, you would probably be ok to do 2 or 3 sets of deadlift, but not more than that, and definitely not 5. The purpose of starting at relatively light weights is to get the technique down before you get to weights that could cause your technique to break down.

OP, Starting Strength 3 x 5 is probably a good choice for you.

 

[coreyb]

squats and deads are okay on the 3x5 because you are only doing one working set for deadlifts. once every other week.

 

[gramboh]

Gonna have to agree with the other guys here. Doing 5x5 deadlift sets across on a heavy day is pretty crazy, doing it in addition to 5x5 sets across of heavy squats it straight up insane, there's no way you could progress those heavy days by 5-10lbs a week unless you are in the novice stages (in which case there are more efficient ways to program). And yeah, stay away from Sheiko until you are pretty advanced, unless you weigh 130-140lbs right now.

 

[darkdiablo]

i'm 150 pounds, i got those numbers by doing shieko for most of my lifting life. Just want to try something new, guess i should go for the 5/3/1 Jim Wendler workout

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: darkdiablo
i'm 150 pounds, i got those numbers by doing shieko for most of my lifting life. Just want to try something new, guess i should go for the 5/3/1 Jim Wendler workout

Your numbers aren't out of the beginner range quite yet. I weigh ~158 pounds and I squat an estimated 340ish and deadlift 365 (my bench is all jacked up) and I'm still on a linear 3x5 program. You should stick to a beginner's program. You will continue to have the best gains there. The other programs are made for those who are more advanced and who make MUCH slower gains. If you want to make slower gains, then be my guest and try to change your program, but it won't be in your best interests.

 

[darkdiablo]

what is your height? And the 5/3/1 should work for beginner as well as advanced, since it involves just military press, bench, squat, deadlift, the 4 basic lifts, adding in some assistance such as pull ups, dips, chins, rows.

 

[katank]

You'll definitely make progress on 5/3/1 even if you are a beginner. I think the point that SC is trying to make is that you'll make faster progress on Starting Strength or Stronglifts.

Working on a beginner's program isn't a pejorative. In fact, it's great and should be done as much as possible. Don't make your programming more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: darkdiablo
what is your height? And the 5/3/1 should work for beginner as well as advanced, since it involves just military press, bench, squat, deadlift, the 4 basic lifts, adding in some assistance such as pull ups, dips, chins, rows.

I'm 5'8". Every good program involves all of those lifts. It's the set and rep organization that dictates the rate at which you improve. Katank got it exactly right. Sure, you'll make progress doing any program really, but you will make far increased gains on the linear 3x5 than any other program you will do.

 

[darkdiablo]

hmm, i'm 5'8'' as well. If i do go back to the rip's 5x3, how often am i gonna increase the weights. And is it still 10 for lower body and 5 for upper?

Rip didnt really say how often to increase the weights by, is it just till I get comfortable doing those weights that i make those 10/5 jumps?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: darkdiablo
hmm, i'm 5'8'' as well. If i do go back to the rip's 5x3, how often am i gonna increase the weights. And is it still 10 for lower body and 5 for upper?

Rip didnt really say how often to increase the weights by, is it just till I get comfortable doing those weights that i make those 10/5 jumps?

Did you actually read the book? It explains very clearly that when you can do the assigned number of sets/reps with a given weight (usually 3x5) with proper form and decent bar speed, you move up in weight. During the beginner stages, you'll be able to do this almost every single workout. The exact amount to move up is up to you: if you think you can handle 10 more pounds next time, move up 10. On some exercises, like the deadlift, you can do this for a while. On others, such as the OH press, even a 1 or 2lb increase can be tough.

 

[katank]

And if you fail to make a weight, don't deload immediately. Go back and try it again once or twice. If it still doesn't go up, then deload by around 10% and work your way back up.

Overall, it feels like a 3x5 program works on a bit of a caloric surplus. Drink your milk and sleep well. This should help the weights go up nicely.

 

[darkdiablo]

hmm, i'll give the 5x3 a try again i guess. So its increase the weights only when I complete all three sets of five with proper form, decent bar speed. AKA: when it feels easy, that I increase the weights by the amount that i Judge do-able, for that lift?

I read the book awhile back, forgot due to long time not reading it.

And also, is it okay to substitute power cleans for bent over barbell rows?

 

[katank]

Yes, 5-10 lbs increase each time.

You can sub barbell rows if you need to. However, it's still far better to do power cleans.

Stretching out your wrists can triceps can help with getting the rack position if you have trouble with that. Also try to avoid curling it up. Hip extension+shrug and then whip the elbows under. Bar should be in straight line close to body.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: darkdiablo
AKA: when it feels easy, that I increase the weights by the amount that i Judge do-able, for that lift?

I don't know if "easy" is the word I'd use to describe it. Maybe "controlled" or "solid" are a little more accurate. The idea is not to weight too long (or you slow your progress) and not to go up too early (or you'll stall quickly) - with some practice, you'll get a feel for it. The amount of weight to go up will typically be 5-10 pounds. On a lift like the overhead press, going up in even smaller increments (1-3 pounds), if you have the tiny plates at your gym, may be necessary.

Originally posted by: darkdiablo
And also, is it okay to substitute power cleans for bent over barbell rows?

First of all, I don't know how/why barbell rows came about as the substitute for power cleans: the two exercises are almost completely unrelated. I suppose both are "pulling" exercises, but one is a full body motion that develops explosive power primarily in the hips, while another is an upper body exercise where hip drive is strictly forbidden and the primary effect is that it strengthens the upper back. Not that the barbell row is by any means a bad exercise - I highly recommend it to balance out the bench press - but it is by no means a reasonable substitute for the power clean. Second, for most purposes, the power clean is a superior exercise. All the other lifts in the routine are slow and develop maximal strength. The power clean has to be done fast and develops speed, quickness and, as the name implies, power. This is extremely useful if you want to apply your strength in the real world, as most real life (jumping, tackling, punching, sprinting, etc) actions are done quickly.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: brikis98First of all, I don't know how/why barbell rows came about as the substitute for power cleans: the two exercises are almost completely unrelated.

Thanks; I see this all the time and it confuses the hell out of me. 'I don't do powercleans because [excuse] so I do rows instead'

WTF?

That's like saying 'Well, the flat bench wasn't open so I just did some extra squats.'