Bill requiring all ammunition in California to be serialized passes committee.

[K1052]

Lockyer, Dunn and Perata Introduce New Legislation to Solve Gun Crimes
Author: Office of the AG
Published on Apr 29, 2005, 08:34

Attorney General Bill Lockyer, Sen. Joe Dunn and Senate President pro Tem Don Perata unveiled legislation to help law enforcement personnel solve firearms-related homicide investigations.

SB 357, authored by Dunn, co-authored by Perata and sponsored by the Attorney General would create a new "bullet serialization" system that will allow investigating officers to trace bullets recovered from crime scenes to the person who purchased the ammunition.

"Gang-related gun violence is one of the fastest growing concerns for communities throughout California," Lockyer said. "We are losing too many of our young people to seemingly random shootings and anonymous killers. SB 357 will strip criminals of their anonymity and give law enforcement evidence it can use to quickly and effectively solve more gun crimes."

The new system would require every bullet sold or manufactured in California to be affixed with an identifier. When an ammunition vendor sells handgun bullets to a purchaser, the vendor would match the identifier on the ammunition with the purchaser, and then log the match into an electronic database run by the Attorney General's Office. When a bullet is recovered from a crime scene where a firearm is used, law enforcement investigators will be able to check the bullet for the identifier and match it with a purchaser.

"With the passage of SB 357, California will bring law enforcement investigative tools into the modern age," Dunn said. "This system will be an important new tool to help law enforcement personnel identify and convict violent felons and murderers."

In 2003, over 72 percent (1,733) of California homicides were committed with a firearm. Almost 45 percent of these homicides were unsolved. Additionally, 63,597 robberies were reported in 2003, with armed robbery accounting for 53.9 percent (34,252) of these crimes. A firearm was used in 64.7 percent (22,161) of all armed robberies. Only 27.1 percent of robberies were solved in 2003.

"SB 357 offers crime scene investigators a valuable new tool to help solve and deter crimes," Perata said. "Numbers on bullets mean criminals off streets."

Specifically, SB 357 does the following:

* Requires all handgun ammunition manufactured or sold in California to be marked with a unique identifier.
* The identifier would then be associated with the purchaser of the handgun ammunition at the point of sale and maintained in an electronic database run by the Attorney General's Office.
* Requires all vendors and manufacturers who conduct handgun ammunition sales in the state to register with the Attorney General's Office.
* Assesses vendor and end-user fees to pay for the costs of the program.
* Creates criminal and civil penalties for individuals and corporations who circumvent the requirements of SB 357.

© Copyright 2005 by YubaNet.com

Manufacturers respond:

Paper Trail for Bullets Angers Munitions Industry

May 1, 2005 7:07 pm US/Pacific
(KCBS) - A bill requiring unique identifying numbers on hand gun bullet shells made in California has taken its first small step towards becoming law, to the chagrin of ammunition manufacturers, who say the process of using lasers to etch the ID tags onto shell casings is expensive and dangerous.

Attorney General Bill Lockyer told KCBS's Dave McQueen the law has "a modest cost with very great public safety benefits," adding that with every shell casing having a tracer number, "we think we can solve a lot of crimes."

When a hand gun is fired at a crime scene, the shell casing is almost always left behind, which is why oolice organizations have come out in support of the law.

Lockyer likened the situation to bar codes and identifying numbers used for other consumer products.

"This would be much like the milk carton, the medicine bottle, the cola can," Lockyer said. "Those have an identifying number on them so that if there's a public health hazard or problem you can trace back to try to find out where it came from."

Rick Patterson of the Ammunition Manufacturing Institute told KCBS the cost of changing the manufacturing process is higher than Lockyer estimates.

"In order to make this all work, you need to engrave that number in the loading process," Patterson said, which would place "a laser in proximity to the propellant and to the primer, so you have some very serious safety risks for employees."

Patterson said many ammunitions makers would likely leave the state instead of investing the money necessary to safely comply with the law. The bill still must be voted on by the Assembly, the Senate, and then make it off the governor's desk.

The law would only apply to hand gun casings, and not to rifle shells which Patterson said are often used interchangeably.

Have these people ever heard of revolvers? They don't eject shells.

 

[yoda291]

wouldn't people be able to goto nevada and buy unmarked bullets there?

 

[BigJ]

Bahahahahahaha.

Yea, because all criminals use legally purchased ammo thats going to be registered to them.

And on top of that, nobody would ever bring in ammo from out of the state thats non-serialized.

 

[Eli]

For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

 

[EyeMWing]

Oh, wow, so they're going to track the S/N's on the individual bullets... When they can't even properly track the S/N's on the damn GUNS.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Eli
For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

It has long been the lawmakers goal in CA to regulate the 2nd Amendment to death.

This is yet another step in that direction.

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: K1052

* Assesses vendor and end-user fees to pay for the costs of the program.

I'm not a gun nut or own any, but i'm guessing the bolded part will be the the thing that upsets legal gun owners the most.

 

[BigJ]

Also, whats to stop someone from doing something to the bullets that would render the Serial # un-readable?

 

[everman]

It's going to be very cost prohibative to serialize every single stinking bullet. The case has been made over and over again: Only law abiding citizens will even bother to buy this stuff, criminals will ignore it.

 

[Colt45]

I see a train of '64 impala's going to nevada.

or.. just go buy a few bricks of .45 at walmart before the law comes into action..

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: everman
It's going to be very cost prohibative to serialize every single stinking bullet. The case has been made over and over again: Only law abiding citizens will even bother to buy this stuff, criminals will ignore it.

I don't think it will be that expensive. Sure, it will add a manufacturing step(the stamping of the serials, or whatever), but once the tooling and new process is setup, the costs will be quickly recoupped.

 

[0roo0roo]

thats what they always say..whether it be emissions controls or whatever. cost prohibitive my ass. "culture of life my ass". more like culture of righteous cheapskates.

 

[yukichigai]

That's the best thing about California: it's close to Nevada. Of course that works the other way too.

I live in Nevada. I enjoy the fact that the casinos are open 24/7, as are the bars. I like being able to gamble, rent guns by the hour, and procure the services of a trained prostitute. But when I want to eat at a restaurant where there's actually a possibility you won't get smoke wafting over to your table, or when I'd like to experience that unheard of event called "rain", and so on and so forth, I can just drive an hour or so to the California border.

 

[Amused]

How completely absurd.

 

[amol]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Eli
For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

It has long been the lawmakers goal in CA to regulate the 2nd Amendment to death.

This is yet another step in that direction.

Do you live in California?

I do, and I'm proud of my state for doing things like this.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: everman
It's going to be very cost prohibative to serialize every single stinking bullet. The case has been made over and over again: Only law abiding citizens will even bother to buy this stuff, criminals will ignore it.

I don't think it will be that expensive. Sure, it will add a manufacturing step(the stamping of the serials, or whatever), but once the tooling and new process is setup, the costs will be quickly recoupped.

It will cost anywhere from extra hundreds to thousands over the life of a gun, in all likelihood.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Eli
For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

It has long been the lawmakers goal in CA to regulate the 2nd Amendment to death.

This is yet another step in that direction.

Do you live in California?

I do, and I'm proud of my state for doing things like this.

Doing things like this?

You mean passing legislation that has absolutely no effect on criminals (which it's intended for), and only affects law-abiding citizens?

Yeah, go California! :roll:

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Eli
For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

It has long been the lawmakers goal in CA to regulate the 2nd Amendment to death.

This is yet another step in that direction.

Do you live in California?

I do, and I'm proud of my state for doing things like this.

What other Constitutional rights would you be proud of them trampling?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Eli
For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

It has long been the lawmakers goal in CA to regulate the 2nd Amendment to death.

This is yet another step in that direction.

Do you live in California?

I do, and I'm proud of my state for doing things like this.

 

[amol]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Eli
For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

It has long been the lawmakers goal in CA to regulate the 2nd Amendment to death.

This is yet another step in that direction.

Do you live in California?

I do, and I'm proud of my state for doing things like this.

What other Constitutional rights would you be proud of them trampling?

Their ban on smoking in public places


Not so proud of the ones the federal government has put into place.

 

[amol]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Eli
For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

It has long been the lawmakers goal in CA to regulate the 2nd Amendment to death.

This is yet another step in that direction.

Do you live in California?

I do, and I'm proud of my state for doing things like this.

Doing things like this?

You mean passing legislation that has absolutely no effect on criminals (which it's intended for), and only affects law-abiding citizens?

Yeah, go California! :roll:

Dude, you live in New York, WhyTF do you care about this?

Go talk on your cell phone while driving

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Eli
For some reason, I don't have a problem with this.....

It isn't restricting any right, or anything.... it's just going to enable better tracking of the rounds, which is a good thing.

But I can easily see how outright gun advocates will cry "Big Brother!", which I guess is technically true.

Very interesting how my stance on guns colors my view of this(I'm neither for, nor against them).

It has long been the lawmakers goal in CA to regulate the 2nd Amendment to death.

This is yet another step in that direction.

Do you live in California?

I do, and I'm proud of my state for doing things like this.

Doing things like this?

You mean passing legislation that has absolutely no effect on criminals (which it's intended for), and only affects law-abiding citizens?

Yeah, go California! :roll:

Dude, you live in New York, WhyTF do you care about this?

Go talk on your cell phone while driving

:roll: Yes, that was a very intelligent and witty jab.

So I guess I'm not allowed to comment on anything that happens outside of NY, right?

Way to result to personal insults and dodge my post. Really, good job. :thumbsup:

EDIT:

How about this, you're a HS student. You can't even legally own a handgun. So WhyTF do you care about this?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Amol


Dude, you live in New York, WhyTF do you care about this?

Probably because stupidity like yours, and California's, tends to be contagious.

 

[91TTZ]

This will work flawlessly to stop robberies, since a robber would never think of stealing someone else's guns or ammo. They should also pass a bill making it illegal to steal a gun to be used in a crime. And if that works, they should ban crime in the state of California. It will be Utopia.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
This will work flawlessly to stop robberies, since a robber would never think of stealing someone else's guns or ammo. They should also pass a bill making it illegal to steal a gun to be used in a crime. And if that works, they should ban crime in the state of California. It will be Utopia.

:Q

I think you're on to something.