Bill O'Reilly drops an accidental truth bomb.

[DarthKyrie]

So then what if your ancestors both owned slaves and were slaves? Do you divide by zero and implode spontaneously?

You pay yourself a tidy sum of 1 cent.

 

[balloonshark]

"far-left" = The Boogeyman. You have to keep 'em scared and stoke their hate so they'll stay in line and keep voting against their own interests.

As a democrat I'll say that this country has much more pressing issues that need fixed than reparations.

 

[DarthKyrie]

"far-left" = The Boogeyman. You have to keep 'em scared and stoke their hate so they'll stay in line and keep voting against their own interests.

As a democrat I'll say that this country has much more pressing issues that need fixed than reparations.

I agree. We should fix our crumbling infrastructure first and foremost then we can worry about it.

 

[Ichinisan]

They literally created a system where black people were worth 3/5ths of a white person.

Keep doing that. The slavers wanted their slaves to count as a full person for federal representation, even though the slaves would not be allowed vote. Anti-slavery activists said the slaves should not count toward representation at all if they're not given a vote (otherwise they're just giving the slave owners a disproportionate amount of representation). The 3/5ths clause was a compromise.

0/5ths - is what anti-slavery advocates wanted, so slave owners would not get any additional representation just for owning slaves they wouldn't allow to vote

5/5ths - is what slave owners wanted so slaves would earn more representation for the slave owners

3/5ths - was a compromise to allow one nation to be formed so they could deal with the slavery issue later (which led to secession and a great civil war)

 

[fskimospy]

Keep doing that. The slavers wanted their slaves to count as a full person for federal representation, even though the slaves would not be allowed vote. Anti-slavery activists said the slaves should not count toward representation at all if they're not given a vote (otherwise they're just giving the slave owners a disproportionate amount of representation). The 3/5ths clause was a compromise.

0/5ths - is what anti-slavery advocates wanted, so slave owners would not get any additional representation just for owning slaves they wouldn't allow to vote

5/5ths - is what slave owners wanted so slaves would earn more representation for the slave owners

3/5ths - was a compromise to allow one nation to be formed so they could deal with the slavery issue later (which led to secession and a great civil war)

Right, I've said exactly this before. The fact is that southerners wanted black people to count for purposes of representation that only white people would wield. Northerners didn't want them to count at all. Neither were interested in having black people wield political power. Both positions are shitty, just for different reasons.

 

[Ichinisan]

Right, I've said exactly this before. The fact is that southerners wanted black people to count for purposes of representation that only white people would wield. Northerners didn't want them to count at all. Neither were interested in having black people wield political power. Both positions are shitty, just for different reasons.

That is incorrect. A significant portion of founders that wanted to abolish slavery. The reason they had to compromise was so they could have one new nation instead of having a pro-slavery nation and an anti-slavery nation at the start. The issue was contentious enough from the very start to divide a nation. Feel free to have a bit of pride that our new nation was practically the first to ever consider abolishing slavery.

 

[HomerJS]

Man, you guys are that close to changing my mind that slavery wasn't so bad. The same position I heard argued at CPAC on numerous occasions. 4 hots and a cot. What's not to love.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

While I understand and am hugely sympathetic to much of your post, I do need to point out that reparations are NOT a "racial litmus test" per se.

It would be a "were your ancestors slaves" litmus test. It just so happen that this falls along stark racial lines. Gee, what were the odds of that?

As I've said, many of my ancestors were Cherokee and were victims of successful genocides, and weren't even as well regarded as slaves were. Things fall along racial lines for sure, but I suppose hunting scalps for profit might not be seen as something worth reparations when it comes to Native Americans who still embrace that culture.

But I'd like to see everyone elevated while others sell reparations for slavery. Maybe people should want to a level playing field and taking the steps required to get there. Obviously as already stated the needs for the "average black" if there is such a thing would be different because of historical racism. Now back to reparations for genocide. I didn't see that mentioned in enlightened circles, or again isn't that important enough to mention by candidates and others?

 

[Ichinisan]

Man, you guys are that close to changing my mind that slavery wasn't so bad. The same position I heard argued at CPAC on numerous occasions. 4 hots and a cot. What's not to love.

Slavery was an awful blight. So glad our country did away with it before the rest of the world. It's not exactly a point of shame that many of our founders decided the new nation would abolish slavery.

 

[HomerJS]

Slavery was an awful blight. So glad we dealt with it.

Too bad the Republican Party is currently trying to gerrymander out the black vote. I guess that's called progress /s

 

[fskimospy]

That is incorrect. A significant portion of founders that wanted to abolish slavery.

I didn't say anything about slavery, I was talking about the desire for black people or women to wield political power, which is what our good friend Bill was talking about. If they had wanted this outcome they could certainly have crafted it but the fact that I can find all of one black elected official on a state or federal level until all the founding fathers were dead and all of five elected black officials prior to the civil war says all that needs to be said.

The reason they had to compromise was so they could have one new nation instead of having a pro-slavery nation and an anti-slavery nation at the start. The issue was contentious enough from the very start to divide a nation.

If the result to have white men in power was purely due to a need to compromise with slave states they could have undertaken efforts at securing political power for African Americans in their own states. I am unaware of any effort to do so. Same for women.

Feel free to have a bit of pride that our new nation was practically the first to ever consider abolishing slavery.

'We thought about it and then decided 'nah'' is not a particularly proud moment for me.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It is relevant because if what you said is true that because of the times slavery was necessary, what was the excuse for not making black people whole after Civil War ending and the EP? I don't think "the times" prevented that.

The times and the people are one in the same. That doesn't mean I like it, but it remains true. What I'd like to know is why it took a hundred years to realize that people matter and blacks are people too. Since that didn't happen my personal perspective is to look at need and figure out how to address it and that is very often tied to past wrongs as well as the present.

 

[pmv]

So then what if your ancestors both owned slaves and were slaves? Do you divide by zero and implode spontaneously?

Considering the behaviour of many (male) slave owners, isn't it quite likely that is the case for a good-few African Americans? Purely genetic ancestry surely can't be the sole factor?

Germany has paid reparations to Israel. I guess there is precedent. But it's an inherently messy concept.

 

[ImpulsE69]

What if their ancestors were slave owners but you married someone who's ancestors were slaves? Do you forfeit because you're a traitor?

Sorry, I'm just trying to be funny. I realize it's a serious topic, but I do think some people haven't really thought this idea through. I do think that if you are going to do it, it shouldn't just be some 'here you go' check.

 

[ElFenix]

So glad our country did away with it before the rest of the world.

wut

 

[Indus]

Slavery was an awful blight. So glad our country did away with it before the rest of the world. It's not exactly a point of shame that many of our founders decided the new nation would abolish slavery.

Except they didn't abolish slavery.

Founders 1770's.. Slavery abolished 1865 by a war.

 

[feralkid]

"far-left" = The Boogeyman. You have to keep 'em scared and stoke their hate so they'll stay in line and keep voting against their own interests.

As a democrat I'll say that this country has much more pressing issues that need fixed than reparations.

Like our atrocious grammar?

 

[Ajay]

And then another century for the civil Rights movement

And yet still, African Americans are second class citizens in many states. WTF does it take to rid our country of such a completely inexcusable mindset?

 

[ImpulsE69]

And yet still, African Americans are second class citizens in many states. WTF does it take to rid our country of such a completely inexcusable mindset?

I mean...it exists everywhere to some extent for others than just blacks. It isn't a country problem, it's a human problem. We aren't at that point in humanity where 'differences' aren't looked down upon. We're certainly better than we've been, but still a long ways to go. It still baffles me how anyone under the age of 30 could be racist here.

 

[whm1974]

wut

I was going to say that the US wasn't the first to end slavery.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Slavery was an awful blight. So glad our country did away with it before the rest of the world. It's not exactly a point of shame that many of our founders decided the new nation would abolish slavery.

Actually, the US wasn't the first country.

 

[darkswordsman17]

As I've said, many of my ancestors were Cherokee and were victims of successful genocides, and weren't even as well regarded as slaves were. Things fall along racial lines for sure, but I suppose hunting scalps for profit might not be seen as something worth reparations when it comes to Native Americans who still embrace that culture.

But I'd like to see everyone elevated while others sell reparations for slavery. Maybe people should want to a level playing field and taking the steps required to get there. Obviously as already stated the needs for the "average black" if there is such a thing would be different because of historical racism. Now back to reparations for genocide. I didn't see that mentioned in enlightened circles, or again isn't that important enough to mention by candidates and others?

Wow. Nice job shitting all over your own (alleged) ancestors' culture.

That you're intentionally trying to pretend like the reparations talk isn't specifically about trying to level the playing field, well again, speaks to the dishonesty with which you're actually approaching this. Ah, so equal except let's stop talking about black people already then? Odd... FYI, either you're once again being intentionally obtuse or your just plain ignorant.

No clue where you're getting this shit that reparations for them has never been or never is discussed.
Oh wow, look at this, 6 fucking days ago, the NYT had this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/reparations-slavery.html
But yes, its only just giving money to black people that's ever discussed and its not about trying to undo the harm and help push for real equality.

I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone that doesn't feel that both groups (and many many many others) have gotten a majorly raw end of the deal by the US government and deserve more. But hey, can we stop talking about black people already so we can talk about all these other people fucked by the US instead? Or really can we just stop talking about it all together because what everyone should be concerned about is equality! And I refuse to see how working to undo systemic harms (that continue to do harm) will accomplish that and then try and portray it as though those people aren't interested in actual equality.

I hope you can some day start to realize what a useful tool you're being for the people that associate with those that did the harm to your ancestors (and many others), where anytime someone wants to talk about the harms done to blacks in America, you'll be sure to say "I'm a native ancestor and you don't see me whining, I didn't let it define me so I made something of myself" while you then also admit you don't even care about your ancestors' culture (finally some bit of honesty though!). You know what they say, assimilation just makes our asses imitate each other!

But hey, I guess if we make sure that blacks and natives and anyone else doesn't get to give a shit, then maybe it'll put a stop to white supremacists marching in the streets under the guise of "celebrating their heritage" or something? We can't forget about them poor persecuted white people! Equality! Won't someone think of those poor whites that lost their lives in the Bowling Green Massacre?

 

[darkswordsman17]

I agree. We should fix our crumbling infrastructure first and foremost then we can worry about it.

That's fine. Hey, look at that wouldn't ya know, blacks are especially harmed by exactly that issue. Looks like we could work on both! Nah, fuck it some white suburbanites need it more. And these cities aren't gonna gentrify themselves!

 

[DarthKyrie]

That's fine. Hey, look at that wouldn't ya know, blacks are especially harmed by exactly that issue. Looks like we could work on both! Nah, fuck it some white suburbanites need it more. And these cities aren't gonna gentrify themselves!

I only say to worry about our infrastructure first so that the money people would receive would be able to be spent on stuff other than repair on vehicles caused by our shit infrastructure.

Edit: grammar

 

[Stryke1983]

Slavery was an awful blight. So glad our country did away with it before the rest of the world. It's not exactly a point of shame that many of our founders decided the new nation would abolish slavery.

Wasn't the US one of the last countries in the Western world to abolish it? In addition to needing a catastrophic civil war. I don't think the exact order of abolishment matters, but I'm also pretty sure the US can't brag about their position in the order either.