Bill Maher on the French

[freegeeks]

don't bother with canoworms, he's doing the "Evil Europeans" routine for years now

he should seek professional help because he clearly needs it, it must be something personal because I can not believe that someone can be so consumed by blind hatred

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: boredhokie

LOL, yea, they take all the oil and mix it together, then ship it from one big central depot to the rest of the world. Get a clue

Yup. That's pretty accurate. Oh, the "technical term" for where they mix it together and ship it out is called a refinery.

Fern

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The French economy: Yes they have a very low poverty rate and the lowest income inequality rate among large countries.
They also have a 9% unemployment rate, double ours.

They also have anemic economic growth; from 2002 to 2006 were 1.3% .9% 2.1% 1.5% and 2.3%
US GDP growth during this time was 2.4% 3.1% 4.4% 3.2% and 3.4%
And people still complained about the shape of our economy. Imagine living in France where the economy is growing slower and unemployment is double ours.

USA has 4.8% unemployment and 12% of the population below the poverty line.
France has 8.7% unemployment and 6.2% of the population below the poverty line.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html</a> (Look it up)

I would rather not be living in poverty regardless of whether I'm employed or not, thank you.

Would you prefer to be "employed and living in poverty" or "unemployed and not living in poverty"?

Poverty is relative for each country. I am willing to bet our working poor have standards of living higher than the working poor of France. There was a study out about a year ago that showed our poor on avg owned 2 cars, a house,microwave, AC, Refrigerator, and 2 TVs. Anytime your poor have those amenities, life isnt too bad.

Personally I'd rather be employed and not forced to be a ward of the state. But that is because I have enough self respect, you perhaps not?

 

[Genx87]

a) They calculate unemployment in a different way. You ignored my previous post with data from 2003 when France had both higher unemployment rate and higher employment rate. If you read a little bit on how they compute the stat you'll understand how this is possible.

Can you show us a link showing how most of the EU calculates their unemployment rates? Last time I researched it, the only difference was the age at which they determined you eligible for work. In the United States it is 16 years of age, in most EU countries it is 15.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The French economy: Yes they have a very low poverty rate and the lowest income inequality rate among large countries.
They also have a 9% unemployment rate, double ours.

They also have anemic economic growth; from 2002 to 2006 were 1.3% .9% 2.1% 1.5% and 2.3%
US GDP growth during this time was 2.4% 3.1% 4.4% 3.2% and 3.4%
And people still complained about the shape of our economy. Imagine living in France where the economy is growing slower and unemployment is double ours.

USA has 4.8% unemployment and 12% of the population below the poverty line.
France has 8.7% unemployment and 6.2% of the population below the poverty line.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html</a></a> (Look it up)

I would rather not be living in poverty regardless of whether I'm employed or not, thank you.

Would you prefer to be "employed and living in poverty" or "unemployed and not living in poverty"?

Poverty is relative for each country. I am willing to bet our working poor have standards of living higher than the working poor of France. There was a study out about a year ago that showed our poor on avg owned 2 cars, a house,microwave, AC, Refrigerator, and 2 TVs. Anytime your poor have those amenities, life isnt too bad.

Personally I'd rather be employed and not forced to be a ward of the state. But that is because I have enough self respect, you perhaps not?

but that's why they are poor, all the bling and 150k credit card debt

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The French economy: Yes they have a very low poverty rate and the lowest income inequality rate among large countries.
They also have a 9% unemployment rate, double ours.

They also have anemic economic growth; from 2002 to 2006 were 1.3% .9% 2.1% 1.5% and 2.3%
US GDP growth during this time was 2.4% 3.1% 4.4% 3.2% and 3.4%
And people still complained about the shape of our economy. Imagine living in France where the economy is growing slower and unemployment is double ours.

USA has 4.8% unemployment and 12% of the population below the poverty line.
France has 8.7% unemployment and 6.2% of the population below the poverty line.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html</a></a></a> (Look it up)

I would rather not be living in poverty regardless of whether I'm employed or not, thank you.

Would you prefer to be "employed and living in poverty" or "unemployed and not living in poverty"?

Poverty is relative for each country. I am willing to bet our working poor have standards of living higher than the working poor of France. There was a study out about a year ago that showed our poor on avg owned 2 cars, a house,microwave, AC, Refrigerator, and 2 TVs. Anytime your poor have those amenities, life isnt too bad.

Personally I'd rather be employed and not forced to be a ward of the state. But that is because I have enough self respect, you perhaps not?

but that's why they are poor, all the bling and 150k credit card debt

Poor from the govts standpoint isnt a matter of debt, but a matter of income.
If you make x dollars you are considered poor, or below the poverty line.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Genx87

a) They calculate unemployment in a different way. You ignored my previous post with data from 2003 when France had both higher unemployment rate and higher employment rate. If you read a little bit on how they compute the stat you'll understand how this is possible.

Can you show us a link showing how most of the EU calculates their unemployment rates? Last time I researched it, the only difference was the age at which they determined you eligible for work. In the United States it is 16 years of age, in most EU countries it is 15.

The main difference is how you calculate the Labor Force, which is the denominator of the equation you use to calculate unemployment.

There are a few differences both qualitative and quantitative. For example:

People in jail are considered outside the labor force in the US, but not in Europe. 1.5% of the available working population in the U.S. is incarcerated prisons.

Discouraged workers. People who are not actively looking for a job. The number of months before one is considered discouraged varies tremendously. In the US is just 4 months, in Europe varies, reaching as much as 18 months in Scandinavian countries. If you are considered outside the labor force you are not counted as unemployed. The long period before before being considered unemployed also works as an incentive to delay seeking a job, as you get welfare in the meanwhile.

Underemployed or part-time jobs. In many EU country you are not considered employed if you do not work the amount of hours considered full-time are not considered employed. In the US if you work one hour a week you are effectively considered employed.

Also, in places with welfare linked to unemployment there is an incentive not to declare timely changes in employment status to collect welfare.

This creates the possibility of something like this happening:
Quote:
For the fourth quarter of 2004, according to OECD, (source Employment Outlook 2005 ISBN 92-64-01045-9), normalized unemployment for men aged 25 to 54 was 4.6% in the USA and 7.4% in France. At the same time and for the same population the employment rate (number of workers divided by population) was 86.3% in the USA and 86.7% in France.

This example shows that the unemployment rate is 60% higher in France than in the USA, yet more people in this demographic are working in France than in the USA, which is counterintuitive if it is expected that the unemployment rate reflects the health of the labor market.

This is because the definition of unemployment relies on the distinction between inactive and unemployed, a quite subjective measure which can be easily manipulated by policies that do not change the situation of the labor market, but decrease unemployment by shifting people from unemployed to inactive status.
Endquote.

 

[bdude]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The French economy: Yes they have a very low poverty rate and the lowest income inequality rate among large countries.
They also have a 9% unemployment rate, double ours.

They also have anemic economic growth; from 2002 to 2006 were 1.3% .9% 2.1% 1.5% and 2.3%
US GDP growth during this time was 2.4% 3.1% 4.4% 3.2% and 3.4%
And people still complained about the shape of our economy. Imagine living in France where the economy is growing slower and unemployment is double ours.

USA has 4.8% unemployment and 12% of the population below the poverty line.
France has 8.7% unemployment and 6.2% of the population below the poverty line.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html</a></a> (Look it up)

I would rather not be living in poverty regardless of whether I'm employed or not, thank you.

Would you prefer to be "employed and living in poverty" or "unemployed and not living in poverty"?

Poverty is relative for each country. I am willing to bet our working poor have standards of living higher than the working poor of France. There was a study out about a year ago that showed our poor on avg owned 2 cars, a house,microwave, AC, Refrigerator, and 2 TVs. Anytime your poor have those amenities, life isnt too bad.

Personally I'd rather be employed and not forced to be a ward of the state. But that is because I have enough self respect, you perhaps not?

This mantra about our poor having all these amenities is simply absurd. You pull it out of thin air; actually, let me rephrase that:

You pull it out of an oft-repeated and rarely evidenced mantra that somehow OUR poor are "ok" because they have these things which you list. This is not true; being below the poverty line means you are below an income level that can properly sustain you and your family according to the levels of economic development in whatever country that produces the stated statistics.

The facts are there, and our social welfare programs are unmatched by countries in Europe. That is a fact.

Whether you want to employ this societal welfare or not is a policy decision.

That is all.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The French economy: Yes they have a very low poverty rate and the lowest income inequality rate among large countries.
They also have a 9% unemployment rate, double ours.

They also have anemic economic growth; from 2002 to 2006 were 1.3% .9% 2.1% 1.5% and 2.3%
US GDP growth during this time was 2.4% 3.1% 4.4% 3.2% and 3.4%
And people still complained about the shape of our economy. Imagine living in France where the economy is growing slower and unemployment is double ours.

USA has 4.8% unemployment and 12% of the population below the poverty line.
France has 8.7% unemployment and 6.2% of the population below the poverty line.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html</a></a></a> (Look it up)

I would rather not be living in poverty regardless of whether I'm employed or not, thank you.

Would you prefer to be "employed and living in poverty" or "unemployed and not living in poverty"?

Poverty is relative for each country. I am willing to bet our working poor have standards of living higher than the working poor of France. There was a study out about a year ago that showed our poor on avg owned 2 cars, a house,microwave, AC, Refrigerator, and 2 TVs. Anytime your poor have those amenities, life isnt too bad.

Personally I'd rather be employed and not forced to be a ward of the state. But that is because I have enough self respect, you perhaps not?

This mantra about our poor having all these amenities is simply absurd. You pull it out of thin air; actually, let me rephrase that:

You pull it out of an oft-repeated and rarely evidenced mantra that somehow OUR poor are "ok" because they have these things which you list. This is not true; being below the poverty line means you are below an income level that can properly sustain you and your family according to the levels of economic development in whatever country that produces the stated statistics.

The facts are there, and our social welfare programs are unmatched by countries in Europe. That is a fact.

Whether you want to employ this societal welfare or not is a policy decision.

That is all.

Correct. It's all about policy. The differences between European and American economic indicators are not a reflection of who's better, but simply a reflection of different approaches to economics the two areas have.

In Europe, the number one priority is avoiding poverty. There is a consensus that it is critical to avoid having people unable to support their families, because desperate people do desperate things, and poverty tends to translate into crime and degradation.
The result of this vision is policy putting income inequality and poverty control on the top of the list, even with welfare programs that might generate higher taxes and lower growth.

In the US the priority is given to aggregated economic growth. A new dollar produced is equally important if it's generated by a multinational business or if it ends in the poor pockets. The result is policy geared towards generating growth for businesses, especially big businesses with the lobbying power to suggest policy.

You'll see this difference across the whole economic spectrum: in Europe small and medium enterprises dominate the scene, while in the US most economic activity is linked to large multinational groups. You'll see it in welfare policy, taxation, education... you name it.

Which vision is better is up to you to decide. I live between New York and Europe so I am quite familiar with both systems. In my opinion if you have a great business idea, you have much larger chances to become a billionaire in the US. If you are middle class, you'll have a much better life in Europe. For an equal salary you would probably work 50% the hours you do here in the states, and get free health-care, pension and education. But again, it's a matter of preferences. What I really don't like about the US is the possibility of having a class of working poor. People with three jobs still having problems supporting their family. I think this should not happen in a developed country. But that's because in my opinion there should be things more important than your job.

One American friend who expatriated to Paris once told me European work to live, Americans live to work. It made me smile, but there's some truth in it.