Biggest union in the US is Teachers?!

[mikegg]

you use the word "Most", i do not think you know what this word means

I really don't understand your response. Just spill it.

 

[mizzou]

I really don't understand your response. Just spill it.

your perception of teacher performance is not enough to say they are majority bad amd majority everything else you say. its quite an impossible position to defend that you took.

 

[Acanthus]

And that's why American education continues to lag behind so much of the world.

Except many other nations regard teachers on the same level as doctors, both in pay and prestige...

 

[yhelothar]

Except many other nations regard teachers on the same level as doctors, both in pay and prestige...

Even grade school teachers? Which country?

 

[Apex]

Yep. I believe schools can't actually fire teachers.

They can fire teachers. They just can't fire tenured teachers short of that teacher committing mass murder (and we're not so sure of that).

 

[shadow9d9]

Same here in Ontario. They're doing rotating strikes because the government wants to give them a pay freeze for one year and get stop them banking sick days. Senior teachers were pulling in $80k about a decade ago. Probably closer to $90-$100k today.

I have very little respect for teaching as a profession. A lot of them are only in it for the money and care very little about the kids. I struggled with certain subjects growing up but could never get help. When my parents got upset at the school, my teachers tried to claim I had ADHD. I got tested and the psychologist found nothing wrong with me. Parents put me in another school and my grades went up dramatically. Then I ran into trouble again in middle school. One thing I walked away from school was kids asking for help always seemed to be inconveniencing the teacher. Needles to say it wasn't a very nurturing education environment. They didn't care if you did well or not. I struggled with math for years. I didn't even learn how to write a proper essay until Grade 12, because nobody showed me. Teachers used to say my writing was poor. Most of them really wanted to believe there was something wrong with me. I did have this one teacher who did take the time to show me. When I went to university, writing was one of my best skills. Rarely got below 80% on my term papers. Probably would have got higher had I not had a tendency to procrastinate. University was a far better environment and it was one of my TAs who inspired me to become a journalist. Had I listened to my teachers in public school, I'd probably be pumping gas for a living.

A co-worker of mine had a similar story. She struggled through school for years. It got so bad that her parents transferred her to a private school, based on the Waldorf program. She told me she was genuinely shocked to see students hugging their teacher. Mind you Waldorf is a very crunchy granola place. But she had always viewed teachers as the enemy. Most students did. To them they weren't a instrument of learning and nurturing. Her time at Waldorf inspired her to become a teacher herself, and she went into the public system only to encounter the same roadblocks. Teachers who smack-talk students behind their backs and generally have no pride in their work. This was even in another province.

So it's no wonder kids today are barely literate when they get to college. If they fired half the teachers, there'd still be far too many bad ones. If they cut their salaries in half, they'd still be making too much for the kind of job they do. Public education is systemically broken. It's no wonder so many kids are on the wrong path.

In Florida's best paying county, the starting salary is about 33k. In it for the money?

 

[shadow9d9]

When we have teachers getting caught feeding their semen to students yet still get their pensions, you know teachers unions are f'd up. We've had a couple of cities here in California go bankrupt and while it obviously isn't 100% the teachers unions faults, those cities have said that union pensions are a huge part of why they went under. How many of us in the real world are guaranteed raises no matter our performance? How many of us in the real world are guaranteed retirement pensions?

So you want everything to be dragged down instead of fighting to get better benefits for everyone else? Brilliant.. why do you think the rich keep getting richer, more jobs keep getting shipped abroad, and wages/benefits are going nowhere?

 

[unokitty]

In Illinois, public school teachers can retire at age 59 with a pension worth over a million dollars. (link)

Clearly, the unions and the unionized teachers are very good at looking out for themselves.

A pity that no group with similar political influence is looking out for the students.

Uno

 

[unokitty]

In Florida's best paying county, the starting salary is about 33k. In it for the money?

In 2006, average salaries in Floridia's 67 school districts ranged from a low of $33,732. to a high of $71,845. Average teachers salary was $45,295.

You can read the report in PDF format here.

If you want pity, you'll have to go spread your lies somewhere else...

Uno

 

[KK]

GA's teachers union, PAGE, has about as much pull as the UN. Teachers pretty much only get into it to get legal coverage, they have no say in any firings, layoffs, or hiring.

 

[shadow9d9]

In 2006, average salaries in Floridia's 67 school districts ranged from a low of $33,732. to a high of $71,845. Average teachers salary was $45,295.

You can read the report in PDF format here.

If you want pity, you'll have to go spread your lies somewhere else...

Uno

Read your own article... geez... Starting salary is exactly what I said.

 

[shadow9d9]

Wall Street made billions while tanking the worldwide economy.. People continue to lose their job to countries overseas.. pensions are generally terrible in this country, work week is longer than europe, and vacation times are abysmal... let's go after teachers!

 

[NesuD]

I've known really good teachers, really bad teachers, and just average teachers and one thing I have noticed with the vast majority of the teachers I've known is that as a group they tend to be condescending, self absorbed and self entitled.

 

[biostud]

I've known really good teachers, really bad teachers, and just average teachers and one thing I have noticed with the vast majority of the teachers I've known is that as a group they tend to be condescending, self absorbed and self entitled.

So, the same like the rest of the population.

 

[MaxPayne63]

Wall Street made billions while tanking the worldwide economy.. People continue to lose their job to countries overseas.. pensions are generally terrible in this country, work week is longer than europe, and vacation times are abysmal... let's go after teachers!

They've clearly done a pretty poor job if there are so many people who can't figure out why jobs would go overseas when most consumers are choosing to buy products made with cheap foreign slave labor. Seriously, how is that such a complex topic that you need a demon in the board room to explain it? Joe Six Pack has been complicit in pretty much everything over the past quarter century, and now he's upset because wall street and washington have realized that splitting two ways is better than three.

 

[unokitty]

Read your own article... geez... Starting salary is exactly what I said.

Have you always had a hard time dealing with reality?

Or do you just have a hard time when it doesn't agree with your preconceived notions?

Seriously, if you want sympathy you should stop telling lies or go somewhere that people don't know how to use Google.

 

[waggy]

In Illinois, public school teachers can retire at age 59 with a pension worth over a million dollars. (link)

Clearly, the unions and the unionized teachers are very good at looking out for themselves.

A pity that no group with similar political influence is looking out for the students.

Uno

shrug big deal. i have seen janitors do the same thing. IF you think being able to save $1million over 30+ years (and being able to retire on THAT at 59 lol) is hard you are insane.

Teaching methods is such a subjective notion that it's difficult to set standards on what good teaching is. Some say test scores, but clearly there's a lot between getting the right answer and actually learning. Math is clearly a good example where teachers often just teach you the steps on getting the right answer without explaining the concepts to learn how to reason mathematically.

Math has turned into a joke. many places are mandated to do "new math" or "everyday math" where they care more about how to do the question and not the answer. it also drags on sooo fucking slow its insane. many schools in IL are now having to switch over to one of them by higher ups in teh school system.

this is something that pisses me off. I moved into a school district that i knew was good. they always have students that score in the top of the state testing and nearly always are grades above the schools around the area. They style of teaching is i guess "classical" as in its something that was done 50 years ago. my daughter HAD to memorize the multiplication table (btw kids don't have to since they get to use calculators. really its even in the book about it being a waste of tiem for the kids) and do everything the long way. Now? they are went to a new math. its insane she is doing stuff she did 2 years ago in a way that is overly complicated.

before i start rambling (wich i will about this). I will say yes there are to many shitty teachers but a lot of it has to do with teh state and guidelines.

 

[unokitty]

So, the same like the rest of the population.

Not quite the same.

The rest of the population doesn't get to work just nine months a year. Nor do they get to retire at age 59 with a million dollar pension...

Nor does the rest of the population constantly bitch, whine, and moan about their lack of respect...

All in all, you're just another brick in the wall...

Uno

 

[waggy]

lol the rest of the population does nto whine? where the fuck you been. they do.

the rest don't get a bully pulpit to use.

 

[unokitty]

shrug big deal. i have seen janitors do the same thing. IF you think being able to save $1million over 30+ years (and being able to retire on THAT at 59 lol) is hard you are insane.

If its not hard, why can't the State of Illinois do it?

Lawmaker says fully funded Illinois pensions ‘impossible’

Or

"At the moment, TRS is only 40.6 percent funded. Its unfunded obligations total $52 billion...

Union leaders don't like Ingram's candor, either. Many were complicit, by neglect or design, in decisions to short-change their members' pension fund. The Illinois Federation of Teachers has insisted that Ingram, the messenger, resign over the message: TRS is in trouble. (Ingram didn't take IFT's advice.)

We keep waiting for rank-and-file union members to realize what rank-and-file legislators realize: Waiting for leaders to reform pensions may be a fool's errand. Union leaders, like political leaders, haven't delivered."

From: Real math, Illinois math


Lots of denial out there. Not going to be pretty when the money runs out.

Uno

 

[waggy]

It's il. the state is one of t he worst in the nation for a reason. the corruption and greed of the government here is outstanding.

i would pick a better state if you want to bash teachers union. hell i would join in it (wife was a teacher. couldn't deal with the union and parents).

fuck IL is so fucked up it's sad.

 

[Mixolydian]

It's il. the state is one of t he worst in the nation for a reason. the corruption and greed of the government here is outstanding.

i would pick a better state if you want to bash teachers union. hell i would join in it (wife was a teacher. couldn't deal with the union and parents).

fuck IL is so fucked up it's sad.

IL isn't the "Land of Lincoln", it's the "Land of Corruption".

 

[unokitty]

It's il. the state is one of t he worst in the nation for a reason. the corruption and greed of the government here is outstanding.

i would pick a better state if you want to bash teachers union. hell i would join in it (wife was a teacher. couldn't deal with the union and parents).

fuck IL is so fucked up it's sad.

Agree with you about IL. But, its not just IL. You can see the same budget non reality in California and many other states.

As the articles that I linked to state, the teachers unions have had a large part in promoting the status quo i.e. unfunded pensions and unaddressed student performance issues.

Union members are free to believe the politicians and their union leaders. And they are free to keep on supporting the status quo.

Like the Illinois Federation of Teachers, other teacher unions and their fanboys are free to keep attacking any messenger that doesn't agree with their vision of the future.

Unlike the union, I don't think that more money is the solution to all problems particularly when the available money doesn’t even cover current commitments. If you want to call that union bashing, I'm okay with that...

Uno

 

[notposting]

Union brother here. I know and believe that. Between them and the UAW they have done more to ruin the name and idea of unions in most peoples minds than any anti-union shill could ever hope for.

 

[BladeVenom]

Except many other nations regard teachers on the same level as doctors, both in pay and prestige...

American teachers get payed well. http://www.worldsalaries.org/teacher.shtml

What countries, that weren't communist, do teacher's get payed as much as doctors?

As for prestige, if you look at student test results, American teacher's don't deserve prestige.