No, your reasoning is off.
The logic goes like this:
Consumers determine whether a company sinks or swims by purchasing or not purchasing its goods. It is not up to the company to make moral business moves, it is up to the consumers to make moral purchasing decisions. If consumers demand quality control, then the companies that wish to continue to do business will provide it.
Problem is, it doesn't always work that nicely.
Then criminal charges should be filed. Regulations exist and have their purpose, but a regulation to force companies to diminish their own profits for the convenience of the public is not one of them.
The bottom line is that we the people have put the oil companies in their position of power. Any one of us could start up an oil company and try to challenge them, but anyone who tried to do so would quickly see why oil companies that existed 100 years ago are the only ones still around: it takes an insane amount of infrastructure and expertise to achieve what they do. At least 10 graduating PhD's in chemical engineering just from my department left for oil companies this year, mostly to work on flow assurance (making sure the oil keeps flowing out of the ground) and product split optimization (i.e. getting more gasoline per barrel of oil). These guys are very bright and are paid accordingly. People who demonize oil companies don't seem to appreciate the service that they do for society. They think that oil companies are pure evil and are destroying society, when in reality society would completely stop if oil companies stopped working. Thus, they are entitled to make a fair chunk of change - they are literally the oil that keeps the gears of society turning.
IGBT
Lifer
- Jul 16, 2001
- 17,974
- 140
- 106
..no doubt. and when political morons on both sides of the isle pass legislation that prohibits drilling and limiting supply, it's no surprise it's value goes up. You guys are crying now..just wait till the Carbon-Con tax kicks in. You won't be driving. Lights on at night will be a luxury. Your electronic gadgetry will be useless.
Their profit margin remains the same they are no different than lets say what corn/grain growers are experiencing now.
They are not obligated to give up their profits so that our gas is at most 37 cents per gallon cheaper (assuming oil companies do what they do for free) and the more realistic price of 1-10 cents a gallon cheaper which they can still make a profit at severely reduced profits
The reality is the price gas is due to one simple thing the limited supply and demand increasing from the US and developing countries mainly China and India.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html
76% of the price of gas is tied to the price of crude oil
Eliminating corporate oils share such that they are going to refine all oil, transport it, market for free and will reduce our gas prices by 25-37 cents per gallon which translates to gas prices that are STILL ABOVE $3.60 a gallon.
I really don't see why people are lashing out at corporate oil I guess its easy to blame them rather than people in developing countries trying to improve their quality of life or at themselves for believing those energy prices would last forever.
They are not obligated to give up their profits so that our gas is at most 37 cents per gallon cheaper (assuming oil companies do what they do for free) and the more realistic price of 1-10 cents a gallon cheaper which they can still make a profit at severely reduced profits
The reality is the price gas is due to one simple thing the limited supply and demand increasing from the US and developing countries mainly China and India.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html
76% of the price of gas is tied to the price of crude oil
Eliminating corporate oils share such that they are going to refine all oil, transport it, market for free and will reduce our gas prices by 25-37 cents per gallon which translates to gas prices that are STILL ABOVE $3.60 a gallon.
I really don't see why people are lashing out at corporate oil I guess its easy to blame them rather than people in developing countries trying to improve their quality of life or at themselves for believing those energy prices would last forever.
What everyone else said. Time and time again people keep on bringing up only the profit numbers but don't mention the profit margins which is what really counts.
And at the end of the day, they are a business. If their raw material costs go up, then they'll have to raise prices to keep my profit margin the same.
And at the end of the day, they are a business. If their raw material costs go up, then they'll have to raise prices to keep my profit margin the same.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
- Mar 1, 2005
- 7,925
- 1
- 81
Raw material costs haven't gone up, though, they've gone down. Prices are artificially high thanks to speculators and other factors.
How profit margins have remained the same, despite crude costs going down and market value of gasoline going up, I don't know. Anybody more knowledgeable in this area care to offer some insight?
How profit margins have remained the same, despite crude costs going down and market value of gasoline going up, I don't know. Anybody more knowledgeable in this area care to offer some insight?
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2006
- 9,867
- 23
- 76
gaaaah i wish i still had my conocophillips stock options. when phillips bought out tosco marketing, our stocks split. conoco merged with em, stocks were actually worth a ton afterward. i knew i should have let them sit a while longer, oh well.
Crude has not gone done.
You can attribute a large part of the the price of crude going up to speculation but in no way has it gone down since it hit a new record today
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
- Mar 1, 2005
- 7,925
- 1
- 81
My bad, I could have swore I saw recently that prices were going down. Must have been a fluctuation or something, looks like in general prices are following an upward trend.
So, gas prices going up has finally forced you to do what you should have been doing all along? Makes sense. Seriously, if people weren't already paying attention to their spending and buying vehicles that fit your needs and not the "OMG, I gotta have a Hummer because it's the cool thing right now, oh and don't forget the 22" spinners while you're at it" mentality then people wouldn't be in such a bind when costs of things they consider essential go up. I'm getting sick of people blaming companies for their bad financial habits. It gets even better when these people don't even seem to understand basic economic concepts and then try to spout their own plan for saving the economy (which, by the way, does not need saving, which they'd understand if they'd paid attention in their Econ 101 classes).
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
My bad, I could have swore I saw recently that prices were going down. Must have been a fluctuation or something, looks like in general prices are following an upward trend.
Maybe it was supply? OPEC (and the gas companies) adjust the supply of crude oil constantly, which helps to adjust prices, at least usually. Of course, as others have pointed out, because of the number of people who don't know what they're doing investing in stuff like oil, and then panic over everything. This is a huge part of why oil is being traded at $130+ a barrel, when what 5 months ago they were making a big deal about it cracking $100 (and that was because of some idiot who just wanted to say he was the first to buy oil at over $100). People need to stop worrying about everything else, specifically the things they can't control, and try to get their own financial situation in order.
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
well, aren't you a self righteous bastard? :laugh:
i have never been one to drive a gas hog. so i'm not one to be trading in a big vehicle for a more sensible one now that gas prices are hitting the roof.
have *you* changed your ways at all due to the increase in gas prices?
EKKC
Diamond Member
- May 31, 2005
- 5,895
- 0
- 0
buy these stocks:
XOM, CVX, BP, COP, HES
the money i made off of them clearly nullifies the rising cost of gas.
hey don't blame me, i gotta drive 90 miles a day to/from the client, and i only go 2-3 days a week.
as i'm only one person, i doubt i can change anything to make them lower the prices. so since I can't fix the problem, I've become part of the problem.
XOM, CVX, BP, COP, HES
the money i made off of them clearly nullifies the rising cost of gas.
hey don't blame me, i gotta drive 90 miles a day to/from the client, and i only go 2-3 days a week.
as i'm only one person, i doubt i can change anything to make them lower the prices. so since I can't fix the problem, I've become part of the problem.
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
well and fine, but i'm the messenger. the guy writing the article is who i wanted to be disputed.
Big oil doesn't have access to a lot of the oil, in fact 60% is controlled by Nationals.
Problem ConocoPhillipsl heavily invests in setting up capacity in Argentina. Chavez siezes control and they lose their investment.
Problem Mexico and Russia don't allow Big Oil access to their resources, same as many OPEC countries.
Problem there are many less exporting countries today than there were 10 yrs ago, China used to export, Britain used to export.
Problem the remaining countries that do export now have increased domestic consumption leaving less to be exported, partially because they subsidize consumption.
Problem Shell invests heavily in Nigeria, constant supply disruption from Nigerians.
Its why they are better left to pay shareholders than enguage in risky investment or try to gain access to closed markets.
Problem ConocoPhillipsl heavily invests in setting up capacity in Argentina. Chavez siezes control and they lose their investment.
Problem Mexico and Russia don't allow Big Oil access to their resources, same as many OPEC countries.
Problem there are many less exporting countries today than there were 10 yrs ago, China used to export, Britain used to export.
Problem the remaining countries that do export now have increased domestic consumption leaving less to be exported, partially because they subsidize consumption.
Problem Shell invests heavily in Nigeria, constant supply disruption from Nigerians.
Its why they are better left to pay shareholders than enguage in risky investment or try to gain access to closed markets.
Am I the only one who has NOT changed my ways because of gas price increase? I can't believe how many people are changing their habits because gas has gone up $1-$2 over the years. That's maybe an extra $26 every 2 weeks for me (13 gal. tank), $52 over a month. Thats $52 I can save elsewhere and use towards the cost of gas.
I think gas price will hit my wallet if the price comes to maybe $7 or $8/gallon. That's why some people recommend having at least 6-month living expenses in a liquid account to account for price increases such as gas, food, etc. Save, people!!
The U.S. has the 108th most expensive gas in teh world (out of 150 countries i think)
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/0...postversion=2008050109
You don't see 107 other countries complaining? Oh wait. they have a better public transportation system, people walk, use bikes, don't buy SUVs (altho those countries are much smaller in size)
Its all in the American psyche about buying bigger, better things, living lavishly,etc . A little increase in price can hurt a lot of people as we see daily. Quite sad
I think gas price will hit my wallet if the price comes to maybe $7 or $8/gallon. That's why some people recommend having at least 6-month living expenses in a liquid account to account for price increases such as gas, food, etc. Save, people!!
The U.S. has the 108th most expensive gas in teh world (out of 150 countries i think)
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/0...postversion=2008050109
You don't see 107 other countries complaining? Oh wait. they have a better public transportation system, people walk, use bikes, don't buy SUVs (altho those countries are much smaller in size)
Its all in the American psyche about buying bigger, better things, living lavishly,etc . A little increase in price can hurt a lot of people as we see daily. Quite sad
From the amoral laissez-faire business perspective, the ONLY difference between having a product that damages property (but presumably has lower costs to manufacture) and making as much as you can, is whether you can get caught and fined.
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