Biden hints at Obama executive order (concerning guns)

[Bowfinger]

For my part I don't claim a repeal, but I am not in agreement with counterarguments I've seen either. Saying "violence" isn't reassuring since the only practical means is to fuehrer limit the Second.

I personally disagree, though not for the reason you might expect. I happen to believe that firearms restrictions, no matter how well-intentioned they may be, will NOT materially reduce violence. The simple fact is we have far too many guns out there already to ever hope for effective sales restrictions. It will just be another Prohibition or War on Drugs, a feel-good appearance of action without actually accomplishing anything. No, if we truly hope to reduce violence in America we need to focus on mental health and a culture that glorifies violence. Abandoning the "War on Drugs" might also help since it would pull the rug out from under many of the violent gangs it funds.

That said, I have no confidence the Obama administration shares that view. They may truly believe restricting firearms sales will reduce violence, or at a minimum feel that's a necessary tool in pandering to popular anti-gun sentiments. Of course the Obama admin has also specifically noted mental health and a culture of violence as part of the root cause of violence, so who really knows where they may choose to act?

That's really my point. All of the gun fanatics insisting they know what Biden really meant are full of it. All they have is speculation and outrage.

One might argue that Obama would never go to far, but I would remind others that among those leading this charge, and that includes Obama for all his crocodile tears, implemented the NDAA, and took actions to prevent us from finding out if our Fourth amendment rights are being violated.

Very much agree. While there is zero chance of Obama trying to "repeal the 2nd Amendment" via executive order, I have no doubt he may try to overreach (just as he has and other Presidents have in the past). For now that's just speculation, however, not a certainty as some here insist.

If that had happened in the Bush years I'd have complained and we'd have had outrage in the forum. Since it's Obama? It's "Yeah thats pretty bad". Wheres the passion? Where is the concern? It's nowhere to be seen. Now we have the possibility of yet more executive intrusion into the domain of the legislature and it's kooks who are concerned? Please consider me one too if thats the case.

Concern is fine. It's the fury and paranoid insistence that idle speculation is fact that separate the kooks from legitimate concern. What Bush did was real, and it provoked outrage. What Obama may do is speculative, and deserves only vigilance at this point. Nothing has happened yet. If Obama tries to repeal the 2nd Amendment, I'll join the outrage. For now, I'm just paying attention.

 

[corwin]

Im saddened by your cop out.

If you're not bright enough to know that argument has been disregarded by SCOTUS as bullshit already then I can't help you...

 

[1prophet]

Executive orders are not usually about mundane things at all. Sometimes they are, but things like the warrantless wiretapping program, approval of torture, the Kosovo campaign, etc, etc, were all executive orders.

This is nothing new, and it is curious that the outrage over use of executive orders relating to constitutional rights was so silent until now.

When Bush was in office not a day went by that someone was slamming him for his abuses of power, when Obama came in and pretty much kept the status quo some of Bush's greatest critics suddenly became silent or apologists.

 

[corwin]

I personally disagree, though not for the reason you might expect. I happen to believe that firearms restrictions, no matter how well-intentioned they may be, will NOT materially reduce violence. The simple fact is we have far too many guns out there already to ever hope for effective sales restrictions. It will just be another Prohibition or War on Drugs, a feel-good appearance of action without actually accomplishing anything. No, if we truly hope to reduce violence in America we need to focus on mental health and a culture that glorifies violence. Abandoning the "War on Drugs" might also help since it would pull the rug out from under many of the violent gangs it funds.

That said, I have no confidence the Obama administration shares that view. They may truly believe restricting firearms sales will reduce violence, or at a minimum feel that's a necessary tool in pandering to popular anti-gun sentiments. Of course the Obama admin has also specifically noted mental health and a culture of violence as part of the root cause of violence, so who really knows where they may choose to act?

That's really my point. All of the gun fanatics insisting they know what Biden really meant are full of it. All they have is speculation and outrage.


Very much agree. While there is zero chance of Obama trying to "repeal the 2nd Amendment" via executive order, I have no doubt he may try to overreach (just as he has and other Presidents have in the past). For now that's just speculation, however, not a certainty as some here insist.


Concern is fine. It's the fury and paranoid insistence that idle speculation is fact that separate the kooks from legitimate concern. What Bush did was real, and it provoked outrage. What Obama may do is speculative, and deserves only vigilance at this point. Nothing has happened yet. If Obama tries to repeal the 2nd Amendment, I'll join the outrage. For now, I'm just paying attention.

Damn well said...and the vast majority of us are just concerned and paying attention, though the insistence by some that we should just ignore it until they actually do something is laughable...ignoring it and staying silent is seen as approval, only through speaking out against it will they know it's not what the public wants so silence is the last thing there should be

 

[TerryMathews]

you want to allow machine guns again??

How many crimes have been committed via machine gun?

 

[piasabird]

Shouldnt we worry about sequestration and the Debt Ceiling? You cant enforce a presidential executive order if it violates the constitution. That wont fly!

As soon as he signs some stupid order there will be people submitting briefs asking the supreme court for an injunction. Honeslty, we have other things to do that are more important. Banning some rifles that they choose to call assault weapons will not stop nutjobs from killing people. Soon they will tell you that a revolver is a semi-automatic weapon.

Cant fix Stupid.

Machine gun murders are like using a tommy-gun or a Mac-10.

How about some statistics showing what types of guns are used in crimes. How many people are killed with a .38 Special Revolver or a 44 Magnum? How many people are killed with a 22?

 

[Bowfinger]

Damn well said...and the vast majority of us are just concerned and paying attention, though the insistence by some that we should just ignore it until they actually do something is laughable...ignoring it and staying silent is seen as approval, only through speaking out against it will they know it's not what the public wants so silence is the last thing there should be

I'm not suggesting ignoring it until they do something. It does seem reasonable, however, to withhold the shrieking until there are actual proposals presented. So far all we have is Biden saying they're committed to doing something, with "something" then replaced by "repeal the 2nd Amendment" by the paranoid lunatic fringe. That's absurd.

 

[Tom]

How many crimes have been committed via machine gun?

I remember this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Want to live in a world like that ?

 

[cwjerome]

Pretty sure its going to be an EO reaffirming American citizens' absolute right to own muskets, as was clearly intended by the founders.

I was rather enjoying the near panic meltdown of a few gun righters worried about an EO 2nd Amendment ban, then you spoil it with nutjobbery from the other direction. Trying to make the ignorance fair and balanced, nice one.

 

[spidey07]

I remember this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Want to live in a world like that ?

Yes I do. If criminals can have machine guns, then I need to be as armed as they are.

Remember what they found out from that lesson? The good guys needed to be better armed!

 

[TerryMathews]

I remember this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Want to live in a world like that ?

Your link says those crimes were committed using modified semi-automatic AKMs.

Do you have any committed using actual machine guns? Not modified clones.

 

[piasabird]

Before you get the guns take all the guns from the cops.

 

[Tom]

Yes I do. If criminals can have machine guns, then I need to be as armed as they are.

Remember what they found out from that lesson? The good guys needed to be better armed!

The good guys take an oath to protect us. And they are trained and monitored.

Going to a gun show, watching a few hours of video, and carrying a gun under my jacket doesn't make me a reliable good guy.

 

[corwin]

I'm not suggesting ignoring it until they do something. It does seem reasonable, however, to withhold the shrieking until there are actual proposals presented. So far all we have is Biden saying they're committed to doing something, with "something" then replaced by "repeal the 2nd Amendment" by the paranoid lunatic fringe. That's absurd.

Yeah OP and anyone else making that claim is absurd...the problem with an EO though is there isn't really a "proposal" presented, it's just a done deal and you're stuck with it. Making our voices heard when it's even hinted at is the only way to head it off, wish there weren't so many loud mouthed loonies though, makes the sane voices harder to hear:\

 

[corwin]

Going to a gun show, watching a few hours of video, and carrying a gun under my jacket doesn't make me a reliable good guy.

Since you profess to be unreliable we would appreciate you not doing any of the things you mentioned, I however am reliable and will do all of those things as will many, many others. If the SHTF anywhere near you we would appreciate it if you got the hell out of the way so we can have a clear shot if needed. K thanks bye

 

[Jaskalas]

Rumor has it that the executive branch would make rules for gun seller licenses. Meaning they can dictate what is sold.

 

[irishScott]

what ban?

sure, it might happen, but it's just precious "assault rifles" whatever that means.

and the paranoia from all the loony toons has had the same expected effect already--crazy sales, investment potential, even.

Is this going to matter in terms of all gun sales? no of course not.

Well there's Feinstein's proposed ban and others, which may very well happen without action.

Lol yeah, nevermind that weapons classified as "assault weapons" are the fastest growing segment of the gun market. Yeah, taking that away will affect nothing at all.

Would it kill the gun industry? Of course not. Will it be a net negative? Outside of the short-term, definitely.

 

[corwin]

Rumor has it that the executive branch would make rules for gun seller licenses. Meaning they can dictate what is sold.

There already are different classes of licenses, what's so different about that?

 

[Puddle Jumper]

The good guys take an oath to protect us. And they are trained and monitored.

Going to a gun show, watching a few hours of video, and carrying a gun under my jacket doesn't make me a reliable good guy.

Why doesn't it, do you think if you had a gun you would be unable to use it responsibly?

 

[FerrelGeek]

That wasn't biased at all. There's a flip side to every coin. BTW, there are multiple threads about gun opinions elsewhere on the forum.

Yea most people would rather eat than worry about guns. That doesn't mean that preserving all our rights isn't important.

True. Imagine how the left would flip out if there was even an inkling of an executive branch attempt to curb abortion rights. The howling that would go up would be deafening. and the MSM would be squealing like stuck pigs.

 

[corwin]

True. Imagine how the left would flip out if there was even an inkling of an executive branch attempt to curb abortion rights. The howling that would go up would be deafening. and the MSM would be squealing like stuck pigs.

OK now THAT would be funny as hell

 

[xj0hnx]

you want to allow machine guns again??

Allow again? They were never banned, only heavily regulated. The fact is that since 1934 there has only been one single crime committed with a legally owned machine gun, which from 34-86 they were imported and sold like any other firearm. In 1986 the illegally passed Hughes Amendment stopped the importation, and manufacture of new machine guns for civilian markets, but grandfathered all existing machine guns. Until 86 you could buy full auto AK47's for a couple grand, and yet from 34-86 only one single crime was committed with them.

 

[Sonikku]

Obama is mad with power. If the founding fathers didn't think private citizens should have access to assault rifles they would have stipulated as such when they penned the 2nd amendment.

They didn't.

 

[FerrelGeek]

How many crimes have been committed via machine gun?

You'd be surprised how many people think an AR-15 is a machine gun. Idiots throw around the terms 'automatic' and 'semi-automatic' interchangeably.

 

[TerryMathews]

Allow again? They were never banned, only heavily regulated. The fact is that since 1934 there has only been one single crime committed with a legally owned machine gun, which from 34-86 they were imported and sold like any other firearm. In 1986 the illegally passed Hughes Amendment stopped the importation, and manufacture of new machine guns for civilian markets, but grandfathered all existing machine guns. Until 86 you could buy full auto AK47's for a couple grand, and yet from 34-86 only one single crime was committed with them.

You spoiled my fun, I was trying to lead Tom into that.

Fun fact: that one crime was committed by an off duty police officer using his service rifle.

When are we going to have sensible cop control legislation in this country?