Bicycle questions

[chipy]

after i move to pennsylvania i'd like to start riding a bicycle again. last time i really rode one for a continous amount of time was when i was about 8 years old.

back then i remember my bicycle with the handle bars higher than the seat (elevation-wise). like this... walmart bicycle.

however, i know people like lance armstrong ride bicycles that look different where the handles are about the same height, or even lower, than the seat. like JulesMaximus' bike. but riding a bike bent over like that doesn't seem very comfortable. plus, with the handles like that, it doesn't seem like you could steer the bicycle very well, especially around corners.

also, how come some bicyles have shocks on them, like this one. while others, like JulesMaximus', don't... at least i can't see the shocks in the front?

also, is aluminum or carbon frame better? is there really a "better" or is it a matter of preference or depends on the use?

i know it's a lot of questions but i really would like to learn the basic differnces between them. i just plan on riding on the road... maybe a little dirt, but mostly on paved surfaces.

thanx,
chipy

 

[The Stigenator]

walmart bicycle = cheap mountain bike.. or rather a mountain bike.. built not for speed, but for comfort and rough terrain, not an upright riding position, slightly slanted.

The Jules Maximus = road bike .. built for speed.. its can corner pretty well, trust me i used to ride one back int eh day. Its meant for speed and corners on rails.. if you konw what you are doing. By the way its not uncomfrtable, its actually pretty comfy if you are fitted in right.

Road bikes dont come with suspension due to the added weight, and plus they usually run on good surfaces.. the suspension adds weight when you want speed and more speed.

There are other types of bikes, the standard which has a tall frame, and total upright position.

edit: carbon fiber is lighter and more expensive than most aluminum frames. The cost rises as more expensive components.

You can get a good decent mountain bike with shocks that will do the streets for about 300. Anything above that, you are paying for the cost of newer components and arent saving much in weight.

Road bikes start out at 700+.. good ones the ones i am looking at are about 1200.

 

[LongCoolMother]

the lower handles are made for more of an agressive riding position. in other words, competitive racing/sprinting. if you arent looking to ride competitively, a more upright and even straight handlebar roadbike would be far more comfortable on long rides.

shocks on bikes are usuall for mountain bikes. they are used for off road xc and extreme mtn biking. you will not find them on road bikes as they are heavy, useless, and absorb power for use on roads.

if you are lookign to commute, a roadbike is your best bet, perhaps a cyclocross bike (which is a road bike with slightly more beefy tires/frames) which can go on very light dirt/offroad terrain.

 

[chipy]

Originally posted by: TheGoodGuy
Its meant for speed and corners on rails..

rails... i've heard that term... what's it mean?

thanx
chipy

 

[LongCoolMother]

what he means is it corners like its on rails (like a train would be on rails) in that they corner very sharpy and handle very well.

as for carbon vs Al frames. there is no 'clear' better. many say carbon has better damping qualities (in that it absorbs shock so the ride is not as harsh) and carbon is also lighter than Al. Usually, carbon frames are high end frames and therefore 'better' but aluminum frames can be just as good if not better. Al is simply used to make both inexpensive and expensive frames and thus carbon is usually thought of as better than Al although there are clearly many very outstanding Al frames.

what it comes down to is build quality and geometry. those matter more than frame material imo.

 

[jagec]

I'm nowhere near as hardcore a biker as many on this forum, but at this time of night, you'll have to take what you can get.

As for the bent-over position: my bike is that way. I'll be honest...I don't like it all that much. It means you've got your weight on your wrists, and that tires you out, plus the steering is really touchy (you don't have a problem getting the bike to turn...it's just touchy!). However, it has better wind resistance or something...not that it matters to most people.

As for the shocks, it depends on where you'll be riding. A stiff frame is nice for smooth roads...it corners sharply, doesn't soak up any of the up-and-down motion that you'll inevitably develop as you pedal, and is lighter to boot. However, if you're riding over areas where there are lots of bumps, or big seams in the pavement, it can feel like your seat is punching you in the nads, especially with the bent-over position. (well, OK, a bit lower down than the nads...still uncomfortable). A better seat can take care of a lot of this, however.

As far as frames go, different people have different opinions. It basically comes down to weight and "feel", which incorporates stiffness, damping factor, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

When I rode a thin-frame aluminum road bike, it was kind of scary at speed. Super light, super fast, but it felt like it was about to fall apart when I was really pushing it on uneven surfaces. However, that was a really old, trashy bike. My current bike is a Fuji Touring Series III, which is a chrome-moly frame IIRC, it's a bit heavier than aluminum, but nice and stiff, and really not all that heavy all told.

 

[illusion88]

Originally posted by: chipy

Originally posted by: TheGoodGuy
Its meant for speed and corners on rails..

rails... i've heard that term... what's it mean?

thanx
chipy

"corners so well it's as if it were on rails"
As in, you aint slipping on this corner.

 

[illusion88]

BTW, what sort of budget do you have?

 

[chipy]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
what it comes down to is build quality and geometry. those matter more than frame material imo.

ok, how do i know which geometry is good? what exactly do you mean by geometry? are you talking about the shape of the frame? heck, after i learn all this stuff about bicycles, i might build one from scratch.

it reminds me of when i was thinking of purchasing my second computer back in 2000. i research so much about brands, components, and what not, that i ended up building my own white box instead of buying a dell or micron like i was thinking of doing.

btw, thanx for the rail explanation.
also, i'd like to keep it around $1000, although i might go as high as $2000 (at the highest). i don't have the money to go beyond that right now.

thanx
chipy

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: chipy

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
what it comes down to is build quality and geometry. those matter more than frame material imo.

ok, how do i know which geometry is good? what exactly do you mean by geometry? are you talking about the shape of the frame? heck, after i learn all this stuff about bicycles, i might build one from scratch.

it reminds me of when i was thinking of purchasing my second computer back in 2000. i research so much about brands, components, and what not, that i ended up building my own white box instead of buying a dell or micron like i was thinking of doing.

btw, thanx for the rail explanation.
also, i'd like to keep it around $1000, although i might go as high as $2000 (at the highest). i don't have the money to go beyond that right now.

thanx
chipy

Read this: Frame geometry

The only real way to know what geometry is good for you is to go demo some bikes, or ask to ride friends bikes and get a feel for what you like.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: chipy

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
what it comes down to is build quality and geometry. those matter more than frame material imo.

ok, how do i know which geometry is good? what exactly do you mean by geometry? are you talking about the shape of the frame? heck, after i learn all this stuff about bicycles, i might build one from scratch.

it reminds me of when i was thinking of purchasing my second computer back in 2000. i research so much about brands, components, and what not, that i ended up building my own white box instead of buying a dell or micron like i was thinking of doing.

btw, thanx for the rail explanation.
also, i'd like to keep it around $1000, although i might go as high as $2000 (at the highest). i don't have the money to go beyond that right now.

thanx
chipy

geometry is basically the entire design of the frame. its impossible to describe all the geometries. it really comes down to how the bike fits you, how the bike's handling characterstics and ride characteristics fit you. nowadays, there are a huge variety of frames to pick from.

the design of the frame matters more than what the frame is made out of much of the time. of course, you are going to be looking for quality materials in the frame as well. just dont be too caught up in thinking a certain type (Al or carbon) of material is going to better than the other.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: chipy

ok, how do i know which geometry is good? what exactly do you mean by geometry? are you talking about the shape of the frame? heck, after i learn all this stuff about bicycles, i might build one from scratch.

Archimedean all the way, don't even touch that non-Euclidean crap.

 

[chipy]

thanx for everyone who replied thus far.

do bicycle shops let you ride their bicycles so you know if it "fits" you or not? otherwise, how would one find out?

chipster

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: chipy
thanx for everyone who replied thus far.

do bicycle shops let you ride their bicycles so you know if it "fits" you or not? otherwise, how would one find out?

chipster

Yes any decent bike shop will let you ride the bike around in the parking lot, they usually just make you wear a helmet.

 

[wetcat007]

I believe what is called a crossroad bike exists which is kinda in between a mountain bike and a bike built purely for speed, but don't buy a bike at walmart you get what you pay for.

 

[notfred]

Ok, some of your questions:

Riding bent over on a bike is harder on your back and hands than an upright position. You support a lot of your weight with your arms and upper body when you're bent over. However, you take a lot of weight off your ass when you do this. If you're riding long distances on a pretty upright bike your ass will start to hurt like hell after a few miles. If you're riding bent over, your arms and back might be a little uncomfortable, but not nearly as bad as your ass on an upright bike. Once you're in shape, doing 100 miles on a well-fitted bike shouldn't be a problem. Note that every bike designed for 100 mile rides is of the "bent over" riding position variety.

Also, the bent over postion keep your body out of the wind, and is therefore much more aerodynamic, meaning you can go faster. Lance Armstrong races bikes. He wants to go faster. And "drop" handlebars like they have on racing bikes steer just fine once you get used to them.

The reason some bikes have shocks is because they're meant to ride on trails like this with roots and holes and bumps and stuff.

The reason other bikes don't is because they're meant to ride on roads like this, that are nice and smooth. Putting shocks on a bike like this adds expense, weight, and actually slows you down, because when you pedal, a portion of your effort goes to compressing the springs (or air) inside the shock, instead of making the back wheel turn.

Aluminum is less expensive than carbon and stronger. Carbon is more expensive and weaker, but it's really light and it serves as a sort of mild shock-absorber because it will flex a little bit. Aluminum is very rigid. Bikes are also made with steel and titanium frames.

You learn what type of geometry is good for you by going to a bike shop, asking them to fit you to a bike, and then after they set up a bike for you, you go test ride it for a couple miles. Then you try it again on a different bike. You repeat this until you find one that's really comfortable and you enjoy riding. Buying a bike without test riding it is like buying a show without trying it on.

There are plenty of decent bikes in the $1000 range.

 

[chipy]

notfred,

thanx for the easy explanation and pictures. thanx to everyone else who contributed an easy or technical explanation.

i'll go today or friday to a local bike shop so i can start to get a feel for what i want.

chipy

 

[vegetation]

For frame materials: Aluminum will give you the harshest ride, but it's relatively lightweight and inexpensive. Steel is often considered analogous to department store bikes, but in fact high-end bikes do use lightweight steel to make excellent bikes, albeit there is still a small weight penalty, though the ride is much more smooth than any aluminum frame will ever be. Carbon fiber is expensive, with dubious lifetime agility (warranty claims are very common with CF stuff). Titanium is the metal of choice for lightweight but long-term usage.

 

[loic2003]

The bent over position is to spread the weight between arms and ass, but mainly for aerodynamic purposes. Above ~18mph, the majority of effort you're putting in is against the air. Just think of how difficult it is to ride into even a light headwind, and the effort that pro bikers put into research and aerodynamic equipment.

I have my seat fairly tall, but that's so that you can put as much power into each turn as possible. Apparantly you want your knee to be just off being locked (fully extended) when the crank is at the lowest point.

Personally I have a GT Avalance with slick tyres fitted. Awesome piece of kit.

 

[drnickriviera]

Geez, if this is the first time you've ridden in umpteen years, go buy some junker bike to make sure you really want to ride before you plop down $1k

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: chipy

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
what it comes down to is build quality and geometry. those matter more than frame material imo.

ok, how do i know which geometry is good? what exactly do you mean by geometry? are you talking about the shape of the frame? heck, after i learn all this stuff about bicycles, i might build one from scratch.

it reminds me of when i was thinking of purchasing my second computer back in 2000. i research so much about brands, components, and what not, that i ended up building my own white box instead of buying a dell or micron like i was thinking of doing.

btw, thanx for the rail explanation.
also, i'd like to keep it around $1000, although i might go as high as $2000 (at the highest). i don't have the money to go beyond that right now.

thanx
chipy

$1000 is more than enough to get a decent bike for non-racing use. I worked in a bike shop for a couple years, and I'll ask you the first question I'd ask someone walking in: What do you want to do with your bike? Ride on the road? Off-road? Both? How far, how long? Does speed matter? Once you lay out your needs, it'll be easier to determine what kind of bike is right for you.

 

[Brutuskend]

<---Tardy to the party

If you want to commute and go fast but not be hunched over may I suggest something like this


I have a road (racing) bike, a MTB, and a Fat tire cruiser. There is a bike made for every kind of use and for every type of rider. Ride as many different bikes as you can and then get what feels best and what suite your needs.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: drnickriviera
Geez, if this is the first time you've ridden in umpteen years, go buy some junker bike to make sure you really want to ride before you plop down $1k

A junker bike will probably just discourage him from riding . He might want to ride but wouldn't know it.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I used to sell bikes a long time ago, high end bikes, mid range bikes. And the best advice I can give you is go test ride. If you're going to go off road alot, definitely get suspension, but realize that you're going to pay more for it or sacrifice on the components (hub, shifters, etc). I have an old Trek 970 that I love, the damn thing's a tank. Deore XT gearing and old Shimano SPD 737 clipless pedals.
Go test ride, I didn't like the feel of aluminum because it was way too stiff, and carbon fiber bikes were too damned expensive. I just reread the OP, don't waste your cash on suspension, you're going to pay for it in other areas, plus it adds weight.
Look at the cro-moly bikes.
Check out Specialized, here's a really nice bike (looks like it's harder to find non-suspension than with) Rockhopper comp
Nice components, decent price.
Also Crossroads (not really a mountain bike)

Great touring bike

There are 100's of great bikes out there, check out Gary Fisher as well. Good luck, and if you need a rack for you car and it has factory bars, cannot go wrong with Rocky Mounts.

edit it looks as though that link to trek stinks, so just go to the site and look up the 520. Sorry.

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
I used to sell bikes a long time ago, high end bikes, mid range bikes. And the best advice I can give you is go test ride. If you're going to go off road alot, definitely get suspension, but realize that you're going to pay more for it or sacrifice on the components (hub, shifters, etc). I have an old Trek 970 that I love, the damn thing's a tank. Deore XT gearing and old Shimano SPD 737 clipless pedals.
Go test ride, I didn't like the feel of aluminum because it was way too stiff, and carbon fiber bikes were too damned expensive. I just reread the OP, don't waste your cash on suspension, you're going to pay for it in other areas, plus it adds weight.
Look at the cro-moly bikes.
Check out Specialized, here's a really nice bike (looks like it's harder to find non-suspension than with) Rockhopper comp
Nice components, decent price.
Also Crossroads (not really a mountain bike)

Great touring bike

There are 100's of great bikes out there, check out Gary Fisher as well. Good luck, and if you need a rack for you car and it has factory bars, cannot go wrong with Rocky Mounts.

Heh, your Trek sounds like my Cannondale F300! I've had it for about 6 years now. The drivetrain is a little long in the tooth (7-speed!), but it's holding up well. I replaced the shock and some other stuff when I got it, and it's been running great. If anything happens to the drivetrain, t's gonna be an expensive upgrade; probably just replace it instead.