Yes, the Iraq area (between the rivers) does flood constantly. Much like the Nile in Egypt, except the Tigris & Euphrates are MUCH more dangerous, as it was almost impossible to predict. IMHO, the other stories were taken from the Bible.
Yes, the Iraq area (between the rivers) does flood constantly. Much like the Nile in Egypt, except the Tigris & Euphrates are MUCH more dangerous, as it was almost impossible to predict. IMHO, the other stories were taken from the Bible.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Yeah, if Noah was true (which I don't believe), don't you think other cultures may have wanted to mention it?
Originally posted by: Crono
Which just further proves the validity of the flood story. There are a lot of people that doubt the Bible, but every once in a while there is a discovery that further proves the reliability of the Bible as a historical reference. Ex: tablet that proves the existence of Solomon's temple (saw on National Geographic yesterday).
I don't think anyone really doubted the existance of Solomon's temple, or a lot of the historical events that took place in the bible. They just think the bible exagerates a little, or mystifies otherwise natural events.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Originally posted by: tweakmm
The bible may very well explain a lot more than people give it credit for, especially the atheists. Of course, the explanations are not literal, but given in allegory.Originally posted by: Crono
Originally posted by: MrToilet
Wow- didn't think people would be this interested...
anyway, to get this thread back on topic- I guess just have concerns about people proclaiming the Bible as the end-all/be-all factual source for everything, when there are obvious omissions, inaccuracies, etc. Didn't think this thread would veer toward incest so fast.
What inaccuracies or ommissions? The Bible was meant to be a guide for mankind from God on how we should live and the path to salvation, and not as a science textbook to explain everything in the universe. Even then, the Bible is incredibly accurate and well preserved, and is as relevant today as when it was first completed.
The truth is always hidden in the open.
<-- agnostic, very strongly leaning towards a universal force, not quite like and not quite unlike a "god".
Hey, I'm thinking of starting such a religion
It could be sort of a cult for smart people who are awed by the Universe.
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: tweakmm
The bible may very well explain a lot more than people give it credit for, especially the atheists. Of course, the explanations are not literal, but given in allegory.Originally posted by: Crono
Originally posted by: MrToilet
Wow- didn't think people would be this interested...
anyway, to get this thread back on topic- I guess just have concerns about people proclaiming the Bible as the end-all/be-all factual source for everything, when there are obvious omissions, inaccuracies, etc. Didn't think this thread would veer toward incest so fast.
What inaccuracies or ommissions? The Bible was meant to be a guide for mankind from God on how we should live and the path to salvation, and not as a science textbook to explain everything in the universe. Even then, the Bible is incredibly accurate and well preserved, and is as relevant today as when it was first completed.
The truth is always hidden in the open.
<-- agnostic, very strongly leaning towards a universal force, not quite like and not quite unlike a "god".
Hey, I'm thinking of starting such a religion
It could be sort of a cult for smart people who are awed by the Universe.
i like gazing at stars and meteor showers; i post PSAs about space weather. i may be interested. wait, the 'smart people' part may disqualify me
I love looking at the stars and the moon. Amateur astronomy is one of my hobbies. I've seen stars, the sun, and the moon so closely & it's amazing.
"When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor." -Psalm 8:3-5
"When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor." -Psalm 8:3-5
SparkyJJO
Lifer
- May 16, 2002
- 13,357
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For Cain's wife, it says in Genesis 5:4 that Adam had other sons and daughters. Now back at that point, the only women around besides mom were sisters, so that's how it had to work at first.
That "Epic of Gilgamesh" is probably actually plagarized off of Genesis and the flood there. Genesis probably came first
That "Epic of Gilgamesh" is probably actually plagarized off of Genesis and the flood there. Genesis probably came first
Actually, if you go by strict "date of writing", parts of the Epic of Gilgamesh pre-date the writing of Genesis by about 1300 years or so.
Another thing- how the hell did Noah fit "two of every species" on a boat, let alone their food, into a boat 450 by 75 by 45 feet long?!?!?! Seriously!
The classification "species" is a recently created term. The Bible only says two of every kind of animal. If you disclude the aquatic species, and allowing for species that have gone extinct, an estimate of 35,000 individual animals would need to be accomodated in the ark.
Assume the number is 50,000, for arguements sake:
"Remember there are really only a few very large animals, such as the dinosaur or the elephant, and these could be represented by young ones. Assuming the average animal to be about the size of a sheep and using a railroad car for comparison, we note that the average double-deck stock car can accommodate 240 sheep. Thus, three trains hauling 69 cars each would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37% of the ark."
Another assumption is the lenght of a the cubit, which is at least 18 inches. If you allow for the possibility that humans had on average, larger frames, the ark's dimensions and therefore volume would increase dramatically.
if i may offer this....
the bible is a great guide for Christians to understand exactly what god wants for us, and expects from us. But, it is a word of mouth account that has been passed down thru generations, tranlated numerous times and, in some cases, changed to suit what man wanted it to. Because of this, as well as human falibility... no matter how devine God's inspiration was, man is a limted vessel and the end result should take this into consideration.
Also, the account is what God wanted us to know. I believe ... mho... that there are parts left out. For example... the Bible says that adam and Eve had two boys. These two sons had a relevency in the telling of amoral story in the Bible, independent of their parents, therefore were spotlighted. I feel that just because it does not mention a daughter does not mean there was not one. Perhaps there is no mention because she had no relevency to the telling of the story. I think that is possible, but was not there at the time, so cannot be sure.
In closing, I say that for me... I take the Bible very seriously but not very literally.
the bible is a great guide for Christians to understand exactly what god wants for us, and expects from us. But, it is a word of mouth account that has been passed down thru generations, tranlated numerous times and, in some cases, changed to suit what man wanted it to. Because of this, as well as human falibility... no matter how devine God's inspiration was, man is a limted vessel and the end result should take this into consideration.
Also, the account is what God wanted us to know. I believe ... mho... that there are parts left out. For example... the Bible says that adam and Eve had two boys. These two sons had a relevency in the telling of amoral story in the Bible, independent of their parents, therefore were spotlighted. I feel that just because it does not mention a daughter does not mean there was not one. Perhaps there is no mention because she had no relevency to the telling of the story. I think that is possible, but was not there at the time, so cannot be sure.
In closing, I say that for me... I take the Bible very seriously but not very literally.
Actually, that's a lot bigger than you would think. People have done the calculations, and yes, two of every animal (not species) could be fit, along with enough food for the entire 190(?) days. Obviously there wasn't every variety of dog and cat and whatnot.
EDIT: Basically what Trevelyan said.
The Bible is indeed a guide, but not just a guide for Christians. The Bible is a guide for all of mankind. You call the Bible a "word of mouth account" but this is not accurate. The Bible was never an oral account, but has always been a collection of written books.
You also say it has been translated numerous times. Once again, we have the original Hebrew and Greek writings, and our modern-day translations are based on them. So in reality, the Bible we have has been translated once, from the original languages, to our modern English.
Finally, you say it has been changed to suit man, however, historical records discredit that idea. There are 24,000+ manuscript copies and fragments of the New Testament alone, making it, by far, the most widely duplicated and distributed document of antiquity. The extreme amount of agreement between all those manuscripts is nothing short of amazing, at no less than 99.5% agreement, the majority of discrepencies being word order and spelling.
Indeed, but even despite our often amazing fallibility, God can still reveal concrete truth to us. It's a shame how much we resist the idea of being able to know God and truth.
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Also, the account is what God wanted us to know. I believe ... mho... that there are parts left out. For example... the Bible says that adam and Eve had two boys. These two sons had a relevency in the telling of amoral story in the Bible, independent of their parents, therefore were spotlighted. I feel that just because it does not mention a daughter does not mean there was not one. Perhaps there is no mention because she had no relevency to the telling of the story. I think that is possible, but was not there at the time, so cannot be sure.
Agreed. The Bible does not mention every fact about historical events, only that which was important. But don't assume that leaving out non-important facts is the same as making up important ones. The Bible is not a work of fiction.
That's a shame, because the Bible is the foundation for your salvation.
I'm sorry guys... This is/was a nice theological discussion. But What DLeRium Said: LOL
/thread.
There are many theories about that. One is that the ark was a fair size on the outside, but on the inside it was huge...kinda like a scifi show where a box can contain infinite matter...kind of a weird theory....
Originally posted by: Trevelyan
The Bible is indeed a guide, but not just a guide for Christians. The Bible is a guide for all of mankind. You call the Bible a "word of mouth account" but this is not accurate. The Bible was never an oral account, but has always been a collection of written books.
You also say it has been translated numerous times. Once again, we have the original Hebrew and Greek writings, and our modern-day translations are based on them. So in reality, the Bible we have has been translated once, from the original languages, to our modern English.
Finally, you say it has been changed to suit man, however, historical records discredit that idea. There are 24,000+ manuscript copies and fragments of the New Testament alone, making it, by far, the most widely duplicated and distributed document of antiquity. The extreme amount of agreement between all those manuscripts is nothing short of amazing, at no less than 99.5% agreement, the majority of discrepencies being word order and spelling.
Indeed, but even despite our often amazing fallibility, God can still reveal concrete truth to us. It's a shame how much we resist the idea of being able to know God and truth.
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Also, the account is what God wanted us to know. I believe ... mho... that there are parts left out. For example... the Bible says that adam and Eve had two boys. These two sons had a relevency in the telling of amoral story in the Bible, independent of their parents, therefore were spotlighted. I feel that just because it does not mention a daughter does not mean there was not one. Perhaps there is no mention because she had no relevency to the telling of the story. I think that is possible, but was not there at the time, so cannot be sure.
Agreed. The Bible does not mention every fact about historical events, only that which was important. But don't assume that leaving out non-important facts is the same as making up important ones. The Bible is not a work of fiction.
That's a shame, because the Bible is the foundation for your salvation.
The bible has been translated many times in many languages... and the translations are not always work perfectly. Almost any bi-lingual person would admit that there are some things that just get lost in the translation.
It was changed to suit man. King James is a good example. Also the role of women in the church has changed to suit man. Women were held in high reguard in the church in biblical times, but that was changed. Then there is all the differing versions of the bible and the different religious sects. They all believe that have the ONLY truth, yet they all seem to be different. That is human nature.
My mention of man's falibility is my opinion. I feel that no matter how devine God's inspirations were... man is imperfect and cannot fully comprehend... the closest analogy I can find is water and a glass... no matter how clean and pure that water is, if the glass is tainted, the water will not be as pure and clean as intended. I think that thru man's limited understanding, the glory of all is not fully enhanced.
I dont believe I ever said anything about the bible being a work of fiction. I meant that just because of ommisions ... does not mean it did not take place, or was unimportant. If someone is telling a story about a particular house, they most likely will not describe in detail the entire neighborhood. That does not mean it does not exist, or doesnt matter.. it just means they are telling a story about a house, not the neighborhood.
You are correct, the bible is believed to be the foundation of salvation. But it should not be the only thing. And some common sense should apply.
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
if i may offer this....
the bible is a great guide for Christians to understand exactly what god wants for us, and expects from us. But, it is a word of mouth account that has been passed down thru generations, tranlated numerous times and, in some cases, changed to suit what man wanted it to. Because of this, as well as human falibility... no matter how devine God's inspiration was, man is a limted vessel and the end result should take this into consideration.
Also, the account is what God wanted us to know. I believe ... mho... that there are parts left out. For example... the Bible says that adam and Eve had two boys. These two sons had a relevency in the telling of amoral story in the Bible, independent of their parents, therefore were spotlighted. I feel that just because it does not mention a daughter does not mean there was not one. Perhaps there is no mention because she had no relevency to the telling of the story. I think that is possible, but was not there at the time, so cannot be sure.
In closing, I say that for me... I take the Bible very seriously but not very literally.
I tend to agree with you. I take the Bible seriously, but literally (factually) it's hard to believe. That's not to say that the Bible isn't relevant, or appropriate - I just discount it as a historical record. As a connection between God and man, it most definitely fits the bill.
In reference to the Noah's Ark story- again, think about how much living space is needed for animals. What fundamentalist Christians believe is that Noah fit *two* of evey animal on the ark. When you consider that a football field is 360' long, by 160' wide, it strains the limits of human incredulity to believe that all these animals a) survived, and b) peacefully coexisted with each other (predators/prey, etc) in a boat 450 x 45 x 75 feet.
I think that viewing the stories in the Bible as commentary on the human condition and relationship with God (this particular story is one of birth, fall from grace, rebirth) and this story becomes much more meaningful.
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