Bible is pretty weirdly intresting....

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BigJohnKC

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
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MichaelD,

I would just ask that you correct your assertion that Billy Graham is one of that type of tv evangelists. There are some misled evangelists that do use television to preach quotes like the one you listed there, but Billy Graham isn't one of those. I know it was just an example, and I'm not trying to tell you what to think, so I'm not asking you to change your opinion, only change the fact that you don't quite have your facts straight about him.
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
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Originally posted by: BigJohnKC
MichaelD,

I would just ask that you correct your assertion that Billy Graham is one of that type of tv evangelists. There are some misled evangelists that do use television to preach quotes like the one you listed there, but Billy Graham isn't one of those. I know it was just an example, and I'm not trying to tell you what to think, so I'm not asking you to change your opinion, only change the fact that you don't quite have your facts straight about him.

Yeah, sorry about that...I was just using him as an example b/c his name is synonymous with TV Evangelism. I know he's not one of the bad guys. Hey, I live in the HEART of Southern Baptist country...we have these idiots in every little single-wide-trailer-turned-into-a-church on every streetcorner! It gets sickening after awhile. I love it when they grab my arm and say "Brother! have you heard the good word today?" I say "Wow, really? The interest rates dropped again! Super!!!" and smile like a psycho. They let go of my arm at that point.
 

JamesM3M5

Senior member
Jul 2, 2002
218
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It's amazing how many Catholics turn Atheist or anti-religion. The Catholic Church is completely fouled up. I did not write the following, I found it on a BMW message board:
==================================
1Tim 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach"

and v4 and 5 "One that ruleth well his own house, having all his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)"

Hmm... being that the word "bishop" originally was a term for pastor, then how is it that the Catholic church preaches against a man holding a congregation and a wife at the same time? If a man has no experience in governing his own children, where does he get the ability to govern a congregation? Hmm.

How about this, taken from 1Timothy 4:1-3:

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

Hmm. I've already addressed the ban on married Catholic clergy above, but its interesting that the warning against such bans was repeated much more clearly in this verse. Also interesting to note that the pre-Vatican Council II Catholic doctrine taught that you don't eat meat on a Friday. To this day, most restaurants serve clam chowder and fish specials on Friday only, just to accomodate Catholics who still follow this ban.

I'm afraid that the only "mystery" about God is perpetrated by the Catholic church, just to maintain their lock on what they consider the truth. My mom and dad were raised in that church, and I heard some pretty hair-raising things about how kids were taught in those days. My mom still shudders when telling the story about the "black masses" they were required to attend every Wednesday at St. Anne's in Chicago. The RCC is steeped in ritual and mysticism, and seeks to isolate people from God by placing themselves in between.

posted by "Chuck"
===============================================

The Bible is true, and all that we observe cannot disproved it!! God created the heavens (plural) and the Earth about 6000 years ago in 6 24 hour days. Einstein's thoery of relativity states that time is relative. If we are near the center of the universe, time will be moving much more slowly to us than those objects moving away from us at high speed. The Bible states that God "stretched out the heavens." The universe has been aging much faster than we have.

There is overwhelming evidence of a world-wide flood. Grand Canyon is evidence of a huge, breached dam, not millions of years of erosion. Petrified clams in the closed position (buried alive) are found all over Mt Everest and many other extrememly tall mountains. The mid-Atlantic ridge shows the scars where "the fountains of the deep broke open".

Dinosaurs used to be called dragons, and are mentioned 35 times in the Bible. In the the Belgian Congo in Africa, the native refer to a beast that looks identical to the apatosaurus as "mokele mbembe". Kenyans know of a flying lizard that eats decaying human flesh. They have to bury their dead deep or else it will dig them up. Plesiosaur carcasses have washed up on the beach more than once, and one was pulled up by a Japanese fishing ship in 1977. It was decaying badly.

The discoveries of "cave men" and our primate-based ancestors have all been debunked as deliberate frauds, mis-interpreted data, or simply made-up. "Nebraska Man" was created because one man one tooth that he thought looked half-man, half-ape. He even constructed the man's wife. All from one tooth. He found a pig's tooth. "Neaderthals" are real humans that were poorly assembled by those who are biased toward evolution. They have thick eyebrows and curved spines due to acromegaly, a condition of old age we still experience today. These people had larger brains than us and were much larger and stronger than us. "Piltdown Man" was a hoax. It was a human skull with ape jaw filed to fit, acid treated to make it look old, buried, and later "discovered". "Lucy" (australopithacus) was only 40% complete when found. They found a skull, but it was too crushed to reassemble. That doesn't stop the evolutionists from dreaming up skulls that look half-man, half-ape. They didn't find its feet, but they put human feet on it in all the displays. All they found was a tree-dwelling monkey. "Homo erectus" was pieced together from ape and human bones and later found out to be a fraud.

No known fossils have been dated with C-14 or K-Ar. They are dated by the rock layers they are found in. But they also date the rock layers by so-called "index fossils". This was all made up by a God-hating man named Charles Lyell, the father of "modern" geology. Dinosaur bones have been blind-analyzed to show they are less than 20,000 years old. Dinosaur tracks are still side-by-side with human footprints all over the world (especially in Glen Rose, Texas "Dinosaur Valley State Park"), but since this does not agree with evolution, many scientists have completely ignored the findings.

Did you know that nearly all of the modern sciences were begun by those who believed in God? Did you know that concept of evolution was brought about by philosophers, NOT scientists? Did you know tha Louis Pasteur proved, 150 years ago, that life must come from living matter and cannot come from non-living matter?

Some of you may say that none of this matters and there is no God. Evolution's mantra is "the survival of the fittest." This exact concept is what Hitler used to eliminate the Jews, and Stalin to murder over 60 million Russians, and Moussolini to believe the Italians were the "superior race", and Karl Marx to come up with the Communist Manifesto. Darwin was a racist and a sexist. If you don't believe me, READ HIS BOOK! Marx dedicated his book to Darwin. Hitler studied Darwin religiously. Those who thought the Africans were an inferior race did not believe in the same God that I do. Acts 17:26 states that we are all of one blood. Racism did not come from the Bible.

The Bible teaches that we all come from God, and man was created in His image. That means that we all have to answer to God. That's the problem that people have with the concept of God. If evolution were true (it has been disproved many times in the last 150 years since Darwin "thought it up"), it would mean that we do not have to answer to God.

If anyone wants to comment on the Bible, evolution, creation, or the existence of God, that's fine. Please do not attack my character, my peers' character, or views. That's not good debating technique.

JamesM
 

JamesM3M5

Senior member
Jul 2, 2002
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There is also overwhelming evidence that the Earth is not millions or billions of years old.

The moon is moving away at a rate of 4 inches per year. 1.5 billion years ago, it would be touching the Earth's surface. 100 million years ago, the tides would have been enormous, drowning everything on Earth twice daily.

The oceans are getting saltier. If they were fresh water at the beginning, they only have enough salt in them to be a few thousand years old.

The oldest living organism is a pine tree in Southern CA. It is 4300 years old.

The largest stalactite and stalagmite formations can easily be reproduced in less than 5000 years. There are 50" long stalactites under the Lincoln Memorial, built in 1922.

The Sahara Desert is expanding. It is has been found to be less than 4300 years old.

There is only enough sediment in the ocean floors to indicate a few thousand years of erosion.

The Earth's magnetic field is decaying. It cannot be more than 25,000 years old. The Earth's magnetic field is in its crust, not in the molten center. The magnetic field cannot reverse.

The planets are cooling down. Even if they only lost 0.001 K per year, that means they would have been 1 million Kelvin hotter 1 billion years ago.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Man you fundies crack me up. :) Have a bannana a realize that by attacking valid science you don't serve to prove or validate your religion, all you prove is your own childishness.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
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Originally posted by: MichaelD
I am happy that you have discovered something new and exciting. The Bible is indeed a fascinating book. But that's all it is; a book. Written by humans. Interpreted (over and over and over) by humans.

I bet you're great at parties.
rolleye.gif
All he was doing was letting us know he found a copy of the bible on mp3 and it was neet, and the poor guy gets a lecture about the validity of the bible's origins. I sense some buried animosity in there...





only reason I bother responding to a post like this is because some people urk me when they push their propoganda viewpoints when it's uncalled for.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
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81
Originally posted by: rahvin
Man you fundies crack me up. :) Have a bannana a realize that by attacking valid science you don't serve to prove or validate your religion, all you prove is your own childishness.

who's attacking valid science? I only see attacks on INvalid science...
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
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Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: rahvin
Man you fundies crack me up. :) Have a bannana a realize that by attacking valid science you don't serve to prove or validate your religion, all you prove is your own childishness.

who's attacking valid science? I only see attacks on INvalid science...

I can't help it if you can't see the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground. :)
 

calbear2000

Golden Member
Oct 17, 2001
1,027
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only reason I bother responding to a post like this is because some people urk me when they push their propoganda viewpoints when it's uncalled for.

The irony is that some of these same people vehemently complain about having other viewpoints shoved down their throats...


 

JSamuel04

Junior Member
Sep 20, 2001
6
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I am happy that you have discovered something new and exciting. The Bible is indeed a fascinating book. But that's all it is; a book. Written by humans. Interpreted (over and over and over) by humans.

You were obviously not raised in a religious environment, but are intelligent and interested enough to make an effort to check it out, and that's a beautiful thing. The quest for knowledge of any kind is a wonderful trait. But take it all at face value. Don't let anyone from any religion shove anything down your throat under the guise of "we are right and everyone else is wrong!" Make up your own mind. Remember this; there are about a dozen different religions in the world that cite the bible as their "guiding light." And every single one of those religions claims to be "the right one." YMMV

ps
Raised Italian-Catholic (worst kind!) Thirteen (13) years of Our Lady of the Bleeding Knuckles School, Sister MaryViscious, Principal. I have not been a practicing Catholic for the better part of almost two decades. It was rammed down my throat as a child. As an adult, I realized what a farce, sham and crap the Catholic religion is. Now I eat meat on Fridays, have premarital sex, and cohabitate without the bond of marriage. Life is good and I don't see any flames around me.


Wow I feel sorry for you. First of all it is true the Bible was written by humans, but it is inspired by God. A human just doesn't sit down one day and decide to write the Ten Commandments.

Christianity is not a religion, instead its a personal relationship with Christ. And I believe chiwawa626 and others have stated the same. I'm sure if you really seek God with complete faith, then you will get a response. Growing up in the Catholic religion is tough, because they put up so many restrictions. By the time the youth grows up they realize how fake it is and that going to church is not worth it at all. Catholics lose that personal relationship with God through Christ and instead they try to establish a relationship with the Pope, Virgin Mary, and other saints. This is not biblical at all.

You won't see any flames now, but there will be a time when God will judge. If you haven't repented by that time, then you will see those flames surrounding you. And its never too late to repent. The theif who was crucified next to Christ, repented and was taken to Paradise.
 

JamesM3M5

Senior member
Jul 2, 2002
218
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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: rahvin
Man you fundies crack me up. :) Have a bannana a realize that by attacking valid science you don't serve to prove or validate your religion, all you prove is your own childishness.

who's attacking valid science? I only see attacks on INvalid science...

I can't help it if you can't see the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground. :)
See, this is attacking the person, not the issue. Argue on the issue. Do not insult the person.

I was simply stating that there is overwhelming SCIENTIFIC evidence that the Earth cannot be billions of years old like the evolutionists believe. Both views are RELIGIOUS in nature. I believe the Bible and God. Others (but not a majority) believe in the Big Bang and millions and billions of years got us to where we are now. If you boil it all down, you have to have faith in the idea that billions of years can produce life from nothing. I believe by faith that God made man from the ground about 6000 years ago. The Bible does not exclude science, and science does not disprove or exclude the Bible. That's the plain and simple truth. If you could put your atheistic beliefs aside and look at the scientific observations and evidence of a "young" Earth, you may start to see a pattern.

All fields of true science were started by men and women who believe in God, the Creator of the Universe. It's the philosopher who proposed evolution and his followers that turned it into a humanistic religion.

Rahvin, if you can't argue on the facts, then don't comment at all. Saying that scientists and scholars throughout history can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground does nothing to advance your opinion.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Originally posted by: JamesM3M5
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: rahvin
Man you fundies crack me up. :) Have a bannana a realize that by attacking valid science you don't serve to prove or validate your religion, all you prove is your own childishness.

who's attacking valid science? I only see attacks on INvalid science...

I can't help it if you can't see the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground. :)
See, this is attacking the person, not the issue. Argue on the issue. Do not insult the person.

I was simply stating that there is overwhelming SCIENTIFIC evidence that the Earth cannot be billions of years old like the evolutionists believe. Both views are RELIGIOUS in nature. I believe the Bible and God. Others (but not a majority) believe in the Big Bang and millions and billions of years got us to where we are now. If you boil it all down, you have to have faith in the idea that billions of years can produce life from nothing. I believe by faith that God made man from the ground about 6000 years ago. The Bible does not exclude science, and science does not disprove or exclude the Bible. That's the plain and simple truth. If you could put your atheistic beliefs aside and look at the scientific observations and evidence of a "young" Earth, you may start to see a pattern.

All fields of true science were started by men and women who believe in God, the Creator of the Universe. It's the philosopher who proposed evolution and his followers that turned it into a humanistic religion.

Rahvin, if you can't argue on the facts, then don't comment at all. Saying that scientists and scholars throughout history can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground does nothing to advance your opinion.

Based on your posts you wouldn't know SCIENTIFIC evidence if it bit you on the ass. Your "evidence" is unsubstantiated garbage without merit or value and is completely devoid of fact or intelligent scientific principles. And if you had the ability to actually read and comprehend at the same time you would realize that I told SagaLore he didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, not that scientists didn't.

But hey the Truth hurts so you will undoubtably take this as a personal attack. Eat your bannana.
 

xospec1alk

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
4,329
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how about we stop talking about religion? it never gets anywhere anyways....

talking about religion makes me all riled up inside...

i mean we have allah, and jehovah, and the other guy,...yahweh??whatever...one person says the others are wrong, another says everyone else is wrong and BLAM! someone gets killed click meclick me
 

JamesM3M5

Senior member
Jul 2, 2002
218
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Where is the "scientific" evidence that God does not exist? Where has evolution been proven? Louis Pasteur proved that life must come from living matter. So how can life come from a dead rock billions of years ago all by itself?

If you look at the complexity of cellular structures, you could not deduce that they happen by chance. How does a bacterium or other single-celled organism move? It has electric motors built at the molecular level. If you see an electric motor at our scale, you would assume it was designed, and did not happen by chance. If you see this same electric motor shrunk down so small that 8 million can fit in the cross section of a human hair, you automatically assume it came by chance? Please open your eyes and look at it from a scientific perspective.

DNA is the most complex molecule in known the universe. It is made from 20 different proteins, all in the right-handed configuration. How did that happen? By chance? The DNA molecule has right-handed proteins because it is used to create left-handed copies of itself--the proteins which actually make up a cell. And this happens by chance? Since you throw in "billlions of years", this is all magically supposed to occur on its own? Why do we have distributed computing projects that take millions of hours of CPU time to simply figure out how a protein molecule folds (Folding @home) so it can perform its functions? Doesn't this imply extreme complexity and possibly was designed by something with intelligence we can't comprehend? Why have we only mapped 3% of the human genetic code? Have we actually been able to do anything with that data, yet?

What about the second law of thermodynamics, AKA The Law of Entropy? Everything tends toward disorder. If you leave something alone, it will decay, not improve. Adding energy requires a mechanism to utilize that energy. If you bombard the Earth with sunlight, the only molecule that works is chlorophyll, and not just chlorophyll by itself. It must be a plant cell with all the correct proteins in place. How did that first organism figure out how to reproduce itself? If it took a few million years, don't you think it waould have been dead long before it figured it out?

Also, evolutionists say that beneficial mutations will make the species better, thus allowing them to be the fittest. Why haven't we been able to produce any beneficial genetic mutations? Why do all mutation experiments produce physically defective offspring?

Also, I forgot to mention that the Earth's rotation is slowing down 1 second every 18 months (approximately). If you only go back 100,000 years, that shortens the day by 66,700 seconds. There are only 86,400 seconds in one day.

Again, please argue on the known facts. Science cannot and has not disproved the Bible or the existence of God. All I'm asking of you is to consider the scientific data.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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Hey, chiwawa626, thanks for the links. I DL'ed up to 2 Kings this AM and will finish the rest tonight, then burn some CDs.
Personally, I believe that everyone, whether they believe in God or not, should take the time, at least once in their life, to study the Bible, even if it is just listening to it. It is, after all, perhaps the greatest historical and philosophical work in human history, and it doesn't take any belief in God to recognize that, just an open mind.
It's too bad that the thread crappers here, who have a driving need to sh!t all over every God/Bible-related thread on this board, have such an insecure and downright pathetic need to slam all over a book they have never read and a philosophy they have never studied. And yes, that is a direct personal attack.
 

JamesM3M5

Senior member
Jul 2, 2002
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Originally posted by: xospec1alki mean we have allah, and jehovah, and the other guy,...yahweh??...[/L]
I believe Iahoweh is the Greek or Latin pronunciation of Jehovah. I know that "J" in Latin is supposed to sound like a "Y" sound. There was no J in the Latin alphabet.
 

Siva

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2001
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Based on your posts you wouldn't know SCIENTIFIC evidence if it bit you on the ass. Your "evidence" is unsubstantiated garbage without merit or value and is completely devoid of fact or intelligent scientific principles. And if you had the ability to actually read and comprehend at the same time you would realize that I told SagaLore he didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, not that scientists didn't.

But hey the Truth hurts so you will undoubtably take this as a personal attack. Eat your bannana.
That's easy enough to say, but science is about proof not words. Why not disprove him, show where his stuff is unsubstantiated or at least ask for proof of his claims.

I don't really care how old the earth is myself. I think the Bible is the single greatest source of information about the distant past in human history, and is definately worth reading and studying no matter what you believe.

On another note, I love the people who come in here and say the bible is filled with rape and murder. These are of course people who've never read the bible, only found a select number of passages from some atheist, anti-christian website and decided that the entire bible was reflected by these passage. Ignorance is bliss, it makes you better than everyone who knows more than you and you can just ignore that contradicts your beliefs.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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Originally posted by: JamesM3M5
Originally posted by: xospec1alki mean we have allah, and jehovah, and the other guy,...yahweh??...[/L]
I believe Iahoweh is the Greek or Latin pronunciation of Jehovah. I know that "J" in Latin is supposed to sound like a "Y" sound. There was no J in the Latin alphabet.
Jehovah is pronounced Yahweh in Hebrew and is one and the same. The word Yahweh dates back to Moses and was an acronym for (roughly) "You shall not ask His Name" or "You shall not speak His Name." Prior to that, the Hebrews referred to God as "Elohim" or "El," but the zealous enforcement of the 3rd Commandment changed that.
There is no "J" or J sound in the Hebrew language. The Jews call themselves "Yehuda."


 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Again, please argue on the known facts. Science cannot and has not disproved the Bible or the existence of God. All I'm asking of you is to consider the scientific data.

You aren't argueing facts your spouting garbage. For example you mentioned the Second law of thermodynamics and simultaneously proved that you don't know anything about thermodynamics or reasonable scientific inquiry. When you present actual scientific facts and theorms and provide evidence to substantiate a point of view then I might feel there is enough to comment on. Otherwise you are simply stating your own uneducated opinion that is contrary to known science. So if you wanna have a discussion about points how about you bring up a single issue and document it with substantial evidence backing up your point.

That's easy enough to say, but science is about proof not words. Why not disprove him, show where his stuff is unsubstantiated or at least ask for proof of his claims.

If he is going to make claims he is the one obligated to back them up. It is my responsibility to do nothing until he does so. In fact until he does substantiate such claims they are invalid because they are in opposition to known science unless he's willing to point me to the COLLEGE TEXTBOOK that proves he isn't full of sh!t.

You wanna play in science's playground you are gonna play by science's rules.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
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lol - all you guys are funny :) Both sides (with two exceptions) have closed minds to the other side. :) It's fun to sit back and watch you all argue.

nik
 

fastz28

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: chiwawa626
Yeah so i found the bible on mp3 :) so that makes my summer reading a lot easyer .... so i read, i mean listened to/followed along the book of genisis.....wow it was long, repetative, and lost the hell out of me, but now i actualy can put things togather from cartoons and tv and understand what people have ment all these years when refering to bible people...heh....but today im gonna start/finish the book of exodus (sp?) about a 1.5 hr listening, hopefully it will be good.

Skip to the good stuff - The Song of Solomon, and listen to what God has to say about dating, love, marriage, and sex :Q