[BI]: Here's the lousy advice Apple is giving people with texting issues

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
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http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-help-for-users-who-cant-receive-texts-from-iphone-2014-5

Call every iPhone user you know and tell them to delete you from their contacts.
Mike Haddan tells BI, "I called Apple again and their response was that I needed to contact every person I know and tell them to delete my contact information, and then re-enter it into their phone. Even though this was absurd, I tried it out with a few friends and it still didn’t help the issue."


Return your Samsung and just get a new iPhone.
Timothy William Perry says: "The exact same problem happened to me and the iPhone representative’s advice was to go tell all of my friends to delete their text message threads with me, turn off iMessage, or just return the Samsung and get an iPhone."

Get a new phone number.
Stephanie Harrison: "I spent three hours on the phone and Apple kept saying the problem lay with my carrier. Eventually someone at Verizon had the idea to text me from his personal iPhone and he told the Apple rep that his phone was identifying my phone number as linked to an iPhone. [After many frustrating calls] I was left with three options: contact everyone with an iPhone and have them turn on their SMS Messaging; change my number; or resign myself to only getting inferior service because I at one time made the mistake of using an Apple device. The simplest solution to me would be for Apple to drop the elitist attitude and drop iMessaging."

Ask everyone you know to delete everything — and then update their iOS.
Jennifer Bary says: "Apple told me to ask all my contacts with iPhones to delete my contact and re-enter it, delete all previous text messages from me, and update their iOs. I asked the customer service rep 'are you serious?' He acknowledged that it was a problem and said he wished they would do something to fix it."

We heard from a bunch of other people who had frustrating experiences with Apple tech help. Here is what they told us:

Christopher Billet: "I have experienced numerous problems with the iMessages and text messages when switching to a new android phone. I also had a horrible customer service experience related to this issue, which ended with a 'VP of Apple Care' hanging up on me. I would love to find out how to become more active in this law suit and get more information."

Dog: "Sooooo, off I go to the Apple Store, hoping one of their 'genius' could fix it. I took my IPad, old IPhone and my new phone. I was there 2 full hours. In fact the guy helping me, left and took his break after putting me back on the phone with some other Apple genius. After 2 hours, I was actually told it wasn't anything I was doing, it was ALL OTHER IPhone users. WTH?! Seriously? Every other person with an IPhone is at fault that their texts won't go thru to my phone?? That's the best they could come up with?"

Paul DosSantos: "My next step was to call Apple Care for them to attempt to help me. I was put in touch with Matthew 1877-416-[xxx] ext [xxxxx] who was supposed to be a senior tech guy and he would solve the problem. Needless to say there was NO FIX. I dealt with them for 1 month and the final outcome was 'we've exhausted all possible solutions'; there was nothing more they could do. I explained to them that in my opinion it was being done on purpose as a sort of punishment for switching and that I would never buy another Apple phone in my life. How can Apple not be able to fix this!!!!"

Russell Kipnis: "I first called Apple and had them un-register my phone number from their iMessage system but they said it could take 30 days to go into effect."

Dylan Patterson: "It took 3 weeks, and some heated arguments with apples terrible customer service before the seemingly easy changes were made. They say it's because their servers take 'up to three weeks to process the request.' I doubt one of the world's leading tech companies have servers with the computing power of a potato. Anyway, my experience was terrible.

Laura Ricci: "Finally I called Apple Support on May 13 and the person I spoke to unregistered my phone, even though I had previously done that, and told me it 'should work' by the following day. The following day came and went, and still my texts appear to some people as an imessage. When Apple Support called me for a follow up on May 14, I explained this to them and they told me that there was nothing else they could do from their end, and that it 'should work.' The man I spoke to also had the nerve to say that I needed to get in touch with every person I know who has an iPhone and make sure to have them turn off then turn back on their iMessage."

Some of these are laughably bad and just reek of a 'We know there's a problem, we don't know how to fix the problem, so we're going to blame everything and everyone but ourselves until we do'.
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,782
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All those things people do to disable imessage and it still works... that's magical!
 

tsupersonic

Senior member
Nov 11, 2013
867
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Ha, didn't expect anything different from Apple.

Apple: "You're friends are doing it wrong! They need to get iPhones!"
 

Fardringle

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2000
9,200
765
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They are probably holding the phone wrong when they send the text messages. If they just hold it right, the messages will go through properly.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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And this is why I've said integration of Hangouts and SMS is a stupid idea. It leads to problems like this. Similarly, users have experienced these issues when CyanogenMod brought out WhisperPush or whatever that encrypted SMS service was. These "smart" services can't really tell when you've switched phones or stopped using their service. As a result messages still get relayed incorrectly.

But of course your lousy anti-Apple propaganda machine poster here doesn't even want to discuss the technical issues with iMessage.
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,539
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And this is why I've said integration of Hangouts and SMS is a stupid idea. It leads to problems like this. Similarly, users have experienced these issues when CyanogenMod brought out WhisperPush or whatever that encrypted SMS service was. These "smart" services can't really tell when you've switched phones or stopped using their service. As a result messages still get relayed incorrectly.

But of course your lousy anti-Apple propaganda machine poster here doesn't even want to discuss the technical issues with iMessage.

How is this androids fault at all? Jesus you're delusional.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
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Does seem to be a serious problem that you can't just undo it and that actually contacting you via this service is with all your friends and you can't cancel it centrally. The only reason you would build it that way is to lock people into your service with no way out, because the fix is relatively trivial (send message, it fails because user has removed account, route via SMS).
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
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How is this androids fault at all? Jesus you're delusional.

read the post again. Apple's problem is a result of merging sms and iMessage without any user involvement. If hangouts ever merges them in the same way, it will also have the same issue. He was cautioning against that.

I like the way hangouts does it now, within the same app but you need to switch manually.


the real fix to the problem in the OP is to turn off imessage before you reset your iphone. if you do that, you have no issues going forward. I just did this on my father and brother in-law's phones when they switched to Moto Gs
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
And this is why I've said integration of Hangouts and SMS is a stupid idea. It leads to problems like this. Similarly, users have experienced these issues when CyanogenMod brought out WhisperPush or whatever that encrypted SMS service was. These "smart" services can't really tell when you've switched phones or stopped using their service. As a result messages still get relayed incorrectly.

But of course your lousy anti-Apple propaganda machine poster here doesn't even want to discuss the technical issues with iMessage.

When Apple allows you to change the default SMS app as easily as Android does, MAYBE it becomes an equivalent issue.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,933
6,876
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I threw up my notes on how to fix iMessage here:

http://catch42.pbworks.com/w/page/80676350/iMessage

Most of the time, the problem is that the user didn't turn off iMessage when they got rid of their iPhone. So when someone with an iPhone sends them a message, it's still going straight into their iMessage account. This is a crappy thing for Apple to do, but really, Apple has no way of knowing that you're not using iMessage anymore since it can be used on Mac computers, iPad tablets, iPod Touches, iPhones, etc. So if you still have the phone, go into Settings and turn iMessages off. If the phone is gone, you have to unregister the iPhone in your Apple Support Profile here:

https://supportprofile.apple.com/

That will tell Apple to stop routing iMessages from other iPhone users into your iMessage account, which defaults them back to SMS on other people's phones. Not knowing this little trick has caused an enormous amount of frustration for a lot of people. Apple obviously doesn't really care about telling you about it because if you're jumping ship, you're no longer their customer.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,933
6,876
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All those things people do to disable imessage and it still works... that's magical!

To be fair, I had never heard of this before it happened to me (been an iPhone user since the first one). I had a friend who switched to a Samsung Galaxy & suddenly stopped getting (most of) my messages. Since the phone was already gone, we had to dig up the Apple Support Profile webpage, which isn't something that easily pops up when you're searching for fixing an iOS to Android migration. Apple is currently being sued over this issue, which I think is fair:

http://www.zdnet.com/ios-to-android-switcher-sues-apple-over-imessages-sms-vanishing-act-7000029603/

It is a HUGE hassle if you don't know about the trick to disable iMessage. There's no instructions in the box that tells you to turn it off when you sell the phone & a keyword search on Apple's website & google didn't yield any instant results. When my buddy switched, we kept missing meetups & got very frustrated...I'd send out a text to a few buddies to meet up for lunch or a movie or whatever and didn't find out til later that he never got them. SUPER frustrating!
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
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the real fix to the problem in the OP is to turn off imessage before you reset your iphone. if you do that, you have no issues going forward. I just did this on my father and brother in-law's phones when they switched to Moto Gs
Wrong. Any iPhones in the wild that remember you as an iPhone will continue to do so for a long, long time, and keep sending messages for you into the void, especially now that deliver via SMS on failure is switched off in iMessage by default.

The problem is that there's no client-side functionality in iOS to update the local record to "not an iPhone" when Apple's server knows/discovers/confirms a number is no longer an iPhone. Ridiculous anticompetitive behavior.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,933
6,876
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Wrong. Any iPhones in the wild that remember you as an iPhone will continue to do so for a long, long time, and keep sending messages for you into the void, especially now that deliver via SMS on failure is switched off in iMessage by default.

The problem is that there's no client-side functionality in iOS to update the local record to "not an iPhone" when Apple's server knows/discovers/confirms a number is no longer an iPhone. Ridiculous anticompetitive behavior.

Huh? It's right in settings - you can turn off iMessage. If you turn it back on, you have to wait a couple minutes for it to activate on Apple's servers. Also, if you've already gotten rid of the iPhone, you can simple log into your Apple Support Profile & unregister the phone from there, which gives the same result as turning off iMessage locally.

The anti-competitive behavior stems from Apple either (1) not clearing stating this procedure, or (2) not putting a software system in place that automatically handles this through the network provider to detach your iMessage account when you activate a different phone. However, some people use their old iPhones for their kids or whatever & may still want to use iMessage on it, so they do have a small argument for glossy over that detail. Still, crappy move to still not have fixed it or made it clear to switchers how to disable it.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
Huh? It's right in settings - you can turn off iMessage.
Insufficient. This just happened to a friend of mine. Turned it off hours before switching, didn't work.

And read this thread... many many people still don't get texts even after a Kafkaesque battle with iCloud. It seems that if your number is listed as "iPhone" in an iPhone user's contacts, or they have an open iMessage thread with you, or other stuff like that... you're screwed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/25jm54/an_apple_employee_admits_that_iphones_often_wont/
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,933
6,876
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Insufficient. This just happened to a friend of mine. Turned it off hours before switching, didn't work.

And read this thread... many many people still don't get texts even after a Kafkaesque battle with iCloud. It seems that if your number is listed as "iPhone" in an iPhone user's contacts, or they have an open iMessage thread with you, or other stuff like that... you're screwed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/25jm54/an_apple_employee_admits_that_iphones_often_wont/

Did you friend try unregistering it with Apple?

https://supportprofile.apple.com/

That complete removes it from Apple's database. I've had good luck with that method.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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I think maybe iPhone to iPhone messaging might work better where one iPhone switches off iMessage, the other iPhone recognizes easily.

When its a group message with a mix of Android, iPhone users, it could get tricky. What the Android users see is probably some weird MMS.

I have yet to see a detailed test running through different scenarios, and instead only see a bunch of people running like chickens with their heads cutoff.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,933
6,876
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I think maybe iPhone to iPhone messaging might work better where one iPhone switches off iMessage, the other iPhone recognizes easily.

When its a group message with a mix of Android, iPhone users, it could get tricky. What the Android users see is probably some weird MMS.

I have yet to see a detailed test running through different scenarios, and instead only see a bunch of people running like chickens with their heads cutoff.

It's a difficult problem to address because (1) not everyone experiences it, and (2) even those who do don't get a 100% downtime issue. My buddy switched to a Droid recently & it happened to him. He only got like a third of my texts. Which was a bummer for time-sensitive stuff! It went to 100% after unregistering his iPhone on Apple's Support Profile website.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,815
10,944
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And this is why I've said integration of Hangouts and SMS is a stupid idea. It leads to problems like this. Similarly, users have experienced these issues when CyanogenMod brought out WhisperPush or whatever that encrypted SMS service was. These "smart" services can't really tell when you've switched phones or stopped using their service. As a result messages still get relayed incorrectly.

But of course your lousy anti-Apple propaganda machine poster here doesn't even want to discuss the technical issues with iMessage.

I was pretty worried about hangouts integration of SMS but I think they've done it just right to be honest.
There are no problems like this with hangouts but you can still use the same app for SMS and instant messaging (and a few other things).

I'm not sure why you brought hangout up TBH as this problem is specific to the way iMessage handles things.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
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I was pretty worried about hangouts integration of SMS but I think they've done it just right to be honest.
There are no problems like this with hangouts but you can still use the same app for SMS and instant messaging (and a few other things).

I'm not sure why you brought hangout up TBH as this problem is specific to the way iMessage handles things.
What Hangouts has today is fine, but a lot of people want seamless integration into 1 thread. I find that kind of "automated" fallback crap very unreliable, and the iMessage case shows itself very well.

The best Android equivalent I could find was WhisperPush for Cyanogenmod. You register your number so that other WhisperPush/TextSecure users can see you as a member and therefore you get encrypted messages by default. However, what happens if you wipe your phone? Change phones? CM users are typically more ROM friendly and will likely switch to other ROMs too. What if you just do a clean wipe and reinstall CM? How do you get those keys back? You can't. How do you unregister? You couldn't (I think now you can finally unregister).

In the end I'm ok with these services that are supposedly smart enough to figure out what kind of messaging protocol you want, but I don't see them as a true solution. If we want to get people off SMS, then we need to get them to a new messaging protocol, not have a hybrid. At the same time I'm not stressing to abandon SMS. It's like snail mail and e-mail. You make it clear to the user that they are in control of how messages are sent. Not some sort of hybrid if I'm at my computer I get e-mails only, but when my computer breaks down, the system automatically defaults to snail mail. That sort of "smart" implementation just begs for failure.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
32,815
10,944
136
What Hangouts has today is fine, but a lot of people want seamless integration into 1 thread. I find that kind of "automated" fallback crap very unreliable, and the iMessage case shows itself very well.

Thats why I wondered why you were bringing up hangouts up as having a similar problem.
Hangouts does it right. It amalgamates SMS and instant messaging at the front end (which is under the users control) rather than at the back end (where you have a lot less control).

I'm fine with it being brought into one thread as long as it is done on the device, not if everything gets diverted to a third parties servers first.

The best Android equivalent I could find was WhisperPush for Cyanogenmod. You register your number so that other WhisperPush/TextSecure users can see you as a member and therefore you get encrypted messages by default. However, what happens if you wipe your phone? Change phones? CM users are typically more ROM friendly and will likely switch to other ROMs too. What if you just do a clean wipe and reinstall CM? How do you get those keys back? You can't. How do you unregister? You couldn't (I think now you can finally unregister).

Thats a bit different than having them set up as the default on every device though isnt it?
You have to go out of your way to find those services, then sign up for them. By then you should know what you're getting yourself into and it was your informed choice to get involved.

In the end I'm ok with these services that are supposedly smart enough to figure out what kind of messaging protocol you want, but I don't see them as a true solution. If we want to get people off SMS, then we need to get them to a new messaging protocol, not have a hybrid. At the same time I'm not stressing to abandon SMS. It's like snail mail and e-mail. You make it clear to the user that they are in control of how messages are sent. Not some sort of hybrid if I'm at my computer I get e-mails only, but when my computer breaks down, the system automatically defaults to snail mail. That sort of "smart" implementation just begs for failure.

Sounds like you've just described hangouts there. ;)


In short I still don't know why you brought Android into this (unless it was as an example in how to do it properly). This is purely Apples SNAFU.
 

basslover1

Golden Member
Aug 4, 2004
1,921
0
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I'm surprised it's taken this long for this to surface, I experienced this problem well over a year ago when I traded my Galaxy Nexus (after buying a Nexus 4) for an iPhone 4S.

All I had to do was turn iMessage off from the 4S and unregister my number from iCloud. It still took a few hours for my friends who use iPhones texts to come through.
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
81
one thing I would like hangouts to do is to auto-switch to the method that the contact most recently used.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,605
3
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I feel really sorry for the people this has affected. I've never had an issue with turning iMessage off and switching phones and it just seems weird that it would still happen after someone did it. I'll keep that support profile trick handy for in the future though.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,933
6,876
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I feel really sorry for the people this has affected. I've never had an issue with turning iMessage off and switching phones and it just seems weird that it would still happen after someone did it. I'll keep that support profile trick handy for in the future though.

I'm not really sure how they would handle this automatically, either. They would need a pipe from ever cellular provider to receive a deactivation signal from the carrier to the iMessage system to notify them when the iPhone is no longer in use. Or if the phone is damaged beyond repair or lost, to also get that signal when a new phone is activated on that same line, if it is not an iPhone.

And then for people who want to use it as mini-tablet or something, it can have the option to turn it back on again, maybe with a popup screen notifying them that iMessage has been disable due to deactivation. Seems like an awfully huge pain to go through, and I don't even know if the carrier's proprietary software would let them pipe that data to Apple easily. But the activation, number integration, etc. all works like a champ during setup, so I'm sure they could figure out a way.

Apple is entirely too careful with their product line for this to have "slipped by under the radar". The only thing I can't figure out is why they would actually do it because then it makes the iPhone look stupid, not so much the device that people switch to...